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DL To Announce More JFK Service--Part II  
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

I figure I start a new thread since the other one was getting long. Anyway, Im happy DL is expanding the way they are at JFK, im especially excited about LGW service by DL from JFK. Any chance DL can buy the UAL LHR slots?

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9711 times:

DL doesn't have permission to fly to LHR, which is a separate issue from the slot matter. Only AA and UA can fly to LHR from the US, and only BA and VS can fly to the US from LHR.

If/when Britain opens LHR to more foreign competition, DL has a deal with AF/KL to acquire some of their slots.



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 1):
DL doesn't have permission to fly to LHR, which is a separate issue from the slot matter. Only AA and UA can fly to LHR from the US, and only BA and VS can fly to the US from LHR.

If/when Britain opens LHR to more foreign competition, DL has a deal with AF/KL to acquire some of their slots.

DL, what I was asking is would UAL be open to selling all the JFK-LHR slots if they arent using them to make some money.


RJ,

I disagree with your opinion that DL cant come close or be at JFK what CO is at EWR. Perhaps right now there are certain infrastructure limitations. But if a new terminal comes about down the road, you can have a mega skyteam hub at JFK with DL doing a nice sized domestic feeder operation into JFK for O&D as well as to feed its major international operation, as well as its sky team partners. JFK can become America's Skyteam Fortress over time. Especially if UA and CO merge, this has a greater chance of happening with EWR being a Star Super Hub and JFK a SKyteam super hub.


User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

Thx Nycfly757. That baby was talking a long time to load.

I don't think the treaty allows other airlines to fly into LHR by purchasing the routes.

I'm told that early this year, Delta witnessed an large boom in European online bookings, after signing on with some major travel sites over there. They were just floored with the revenue that started to come in.

I can't guess the routes. It's wide open when an airline has substantially lower costs than the competition.


User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 3):
I don't think the treaty allows other airlines to fly into LHR by purchasing the routes.

Hmm was there a change in the treaty?..how did Pan Am and TWA sell these same rights to AA and UA?


User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3278 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 2):
DL, what I was asking is would UAL be open to selling all the JFK-LHR slots if they arent using them to make some money.

I don't even pretend to understand the workings of Bermuda II, but if I'm not mistaken, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I believe what he's saying is that even if UA sold their slots to DL, they wouldn't be able to fly them. As I understand it, it has nothing to do with slots, its that only AA, UA, BA, and VS have the actual right to fly their airplanes from the US to LHR, regardless of what slots they have, or what slots other airlines have.

I could very well be wrong, and am open to correction.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 4):
Hmm was there a change in the treaty?..how did Pan Am and TWA sell these same rights to AA and UA?

The slots were sold because AA and UA were the "logical" successors to TW and PA, respectively. It was and is a very controversial issue. Read Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger,Jr. Very good read.

As it is, DL does not have access to Heathrow, period. While I would love to see DL do JFK-LGW, the real money has always been at LHR. Do love the speculation though.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

It may be the case that UA could sell LHR to Delta but they would need to sell all the rights not just certain routes. And lord know that's not going to happen.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9586 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
Any chance DL can buy the UAL LHR slots?

They would have to buy them all and UA have to leave LHR in order to gain LHR acccess at the moment, which isnt going to happen because:

DL couldnt afford to
UA wont be leaving LHR any time soon
There could be EU-US open skies very soon



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9586 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
The slots were sold because AA and UA were the "logical" successors to TW and PA, respectively. It was and is a very controversial issue. Read Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger,Jr. Very good read.

Correction. PA sold their LHR access because they were extremely short on cash at the time. TW sold theirs just because Icahan was an idiot. UA and AA were allowed to purchase the slots, but at a high price. There is no way UA would give up LHR-JFK. Granted, their presence at JFK is not very big, but the prestige of flying such a run is enormous. We could start another thread about UA and JFK, but that's been said and done more times than I can count here.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9553 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
DL couldnt afford to

More like they would not be permitted while operating under Chapter 11.

Delta has 2.5 Billion in unrestricted cash. Saying they can't afford it while other airlines could is not correct. Delta size for size has just as much unrestricted cash as your average US airline.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9553 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
They would have to buy them all and UA have to leave LHR in order to gain LHR acccess at the moment, which isnt going to happen because:

DL couldnt afford to
UA wont be leaving LHR any time soon
There could be EU-US open skies very soon

While DL may not be buying UA's LHR slots, I'm a betting man and will say DL will be at LHR, operating in and out of T4 within 5 years with at least 2x daily to both JFK and LHR.

Interesting times in the near future.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9553 times:

T

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
Read Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger,Jr. Very good read.

Ok i'll definitely pick the book up..Thanks. Correct me if Im wrong...doesnt CO fly EWR-LGW, and if so how do they do on it. LGW could provide good connections to Euro Skyteam Partners for DL.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9512 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 10):
Delta has 2.5 Billion in unrestricted cash. Saying they can't afford it while other airlines could is not correct. Delta size for size has just as much unrestricted cash as your average US airline.

If they have 2.5 billion in cash why are they in Chapter 11?

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 12):
LGW could provide good connections to Euro Skyteam Partners for DL.

Not really. Considering hardly any European SkyTeam members serve LGW and those that do often serve secondary destinations, there would be very limited feed



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9485 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 4):
Hmm was there a change in the treaty?..how did Pan Am and TWA sell these same rights to AA and UA?

Just as a point of clarity, at the time of the 1991 acquisition of PA/TW routes to Heathrow by UA/AA, VS was given the right to fly from Heathrow to the U.S. I would put odds on that for another route sale to take place would be to the detriment of either U.S. carrier not involved in the sale, and pressure brought to reject it. Icahn was for the PA sale so he could sell TW's routes too, and I'd gather he didn't care if another carrier got rights as a result, as long as he was able to line his own pockets.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 2):
disagree with your opinion that DL cant come close or be at JFK what CO is at EWR. Perhaps right now there are certain infrastructure limitations. But if a new terminal comes about down the road, you can have a mega skyteam hub at JFK with DL doing a nice sized domestic feeder operation into JFK for O&D as well as to feed its major international operation, as well as its sky team partners. JFK can become America's Skyteam Fortress over time. Especially if UA and CO merge, this has a greater chance of happening with EWR being a Star Super Hub and JFK a SKyteam super hub.

Disagree. EWR is a superhub because it has the ability to be a strong domestic and international hub for a market including New York City and New Jersey. JFK will never have the type of service that LGA has--multiple hourly flights to ORD,DCA,BOS, etc. If LGA ever closed for some reason, then JFK would see a huge increase on traffic but so would EWR (in the form of larger aircraft probably).

In short, CO has a very unique combination that allows EWR to be so successful. Short of some massive changes in the region, JFK will never become that.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
If they have 2.5 billion in cash why are they in Chapter 11?

Because they have USD$18 Billion in Debt and their debts are greater than their assets (leading to negative stockholder equity and Chapter 11).

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Not really. Considering hardly any European SkyTeam members serve LGW and those that do often serve secondary destinations, there would be very limited feed

I agree with you on this. LGW (and LHR for that matter) will always be a primarily O & D market for Skyteam airlines.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9417 times:

CO gets about 25% higher revenue on its EWRLGW route than UA gets on JFKLHR. In fact, DL and CO both get better revenue into LGW from EWR,ATL, and CVG than UA does from JFK or ORD. LHR is not the panacea or guarantee for revenue that alot of people think it is nor is LGW necessarily a sentence to lose money.

I do not believe DL could serve JFKLGW right now because LGW and LHR are both limited access airports under Bermuda 2, the treaty that governs US-UK aviation. In addition to designating what cities can have service to LGW and LHR, Bermuda 2 also has capacity limits which cap the number of flights in a market even if a carrier holds enough slots to add more flights. While I do not know the specific numbers, I do not believe there is capacity in the JFK-London authority (which covers LHR and LGW) to allow DL to begin service to LGW. EWR is governed by a separate section but CO is still limited to its current 2 flights/day.

It is not certain that an EU-US open skies agreement will be passed. The US Congress just passed a measure to limit the DOT's ability to change foreign ownership regulations which is what the EU is demanding in return for providing open skies to US airlines - what would be necessary to open LHR. Given the anti-foreign investor mindset in the US and in other western countries (remember the Dubai Ports flap which was an issue in both the US and UK), it is possible there will be no immediate open skies deal or increased access to LHR.

If I'm wrong and DL is able and does begin service JFKLGW, they will be essentially giving up on the argument that you have to serve LHR to make money. That doesn't mean that they won't get there but I happen to believe it will happen when they buy UA. If DL's turnaround continues at the pace it has gone so far and UA continues to struggle to turn itself around, DL could well become the most profitable airline in the US and in a position to acquire when consolidation comes. Given UA's presence in Asia, it's access to LHR, and its presence in Chicago and the west coast where DL is weak, I can't help but think DL will be acquiring and that UA will be DL's preferred carrier.

So, yes, I think DL will eventually be in LHR but it may not happen until DL acquires substantially all of UA's assets - and that may not happen before UA files for bankruptcy again, something that could well happen in the next 5 years.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9379 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
So, yes, I think DL will eventually be in LHR but it may not happen until DL acquires substantially all of UA's assets -

Before we make such predictions, lets see DL get itself out of bankruptcy first. I wish DL the best....but so much of this is nothing more than delusions of grandeur. Didnt DL just ask for a futher delay from the bankruptcy court? Suggesting that DL will be in the position to purchase UA at this point in time is an over-the-top prediction.

Since DL purchased the Pan Am assets, we have seen several expansions and contractions of DL operations at JFK - lets first see how this works out and what routes DL is flying in the coming seasons before we get overexcited at the airlines opportunities at JFK.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
CO gets about 25% higher revenue on its EWRLGW route than UA gets on JFKLHR. In fact, DL and CO both get better revenue into LGW from EWR,ATL, and CVG than UA does from JFK or ORD. LHR is not the panacea or guarantee for revenue that alot of people think it is nor is LGW necessarily a sentence to lose money.

What you're saying is that there's been a sea change of how people travel to London from the U.S. in the past few years. You might want to read this:

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/comments/9712.htm#IIIB2

The link takes you to the section entitled Service to Heathrow Continues to Be in a Separate Market for Business Passengers, and makes the case for why airlines that have served LHR and LGW from the same gateways, have quickly dropped LGW and retained LHR service.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17):
do not believe DL could serve JFKLGW right now because LGW and LHR are both limited access airports under Bermuda 2, the treaty that governs US-UK aviation. In addition to designating what cities can have service to LGW and LHR, Bermuda 2 also has capacity limits which cap the number of flights in a market even if a carrier holds enough slots to add more flights. While I do not know the specific numbers, I do not believe there is capacity in the JFK-London authority (which covers LHR and LGW) to allow DL to begin service to LGW. EWR is governed by a separate section but CO is still limited to its current 2 flights/day.

CO is flying three EWR-LGW flights per day on certain days of the week this summer.

DL probably could start JFK-LGW if it wanted to......but I would be surprised if DL were to try this after their bad experience with the BOS-LGW route. DL would have a tough time making JFK-LGW work with so many flights available from JFK to Heathrow. Several airlines, including BA, have operated JFK-LGW without success.

I do think that DL (and CO) will find their way into LHR.......simply because at some point Bermuda 2 must be modified or re-written.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9338 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Before we make such predictions, lets see DL get itself out of bankruptcy first. I wish DL the best....but so much of this is nothing more than delusions of grandeur. Didnt DL just ask for a futher delay from the bankruptcy court? Suggesting that DL will be in the position to purchase UA at this point in time is an over-the-top prediction.

Since DL purchased the Pan Am assets, we have seen several expansions and contractions of DL operations at JFK - lets first see how this works out and what routes DL is flying in the coming seasons before we get overexcited at the airlines opportunities at JFK.

I agree. Let's wait and see what DL has in mind before we start spinning our own ideas around.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9327 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Before we make such predictions, lets see DL get itself out of bankruptcy first

"let see if Delta gets out of Chapter 11 first?" Who's being over the top here?


The April report is there for all to see. The CFO and COO have said things like "numbers coming out that will drop people's jaws" , JFK routes doing "well beyond expectations". "rasm 6% below industry average" The extension means nothing other than more time to get costs even lower. The lenders wanted the extension as well and it would be out of the ordinary not to ask for more time.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 22):
"let see if Delta gets out of Chapter 11 first?"

You added the "if", which changes the meaning of Dutchjet's earlier comment. Bad form. *Buzzer*



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9286 times:

aerowesty you are correct I did add that after pasting his exact quote. So my mistake. The fact remains. There is no possiblity of Delta going Chapter 7. None. So discussing what they will do in the future as a fully functional airline is not beyond the pale.

[Edited 2006-06-18 20:43:32]

25 COfaninBOS : I don't care what the CFO and COO at Delta have stated to the public. Haven't the last 10 years in this country made you wary of listening to the peop
26 Dutchjet : 1. I never suggested that DL will go Chapter 7, those are your words.....but before DL can take over the world, it must get itself out of Chapter 11
27 Post contains links Nycfly75 : Well heres the Bermuda II Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_II ---On the idea of a UA-DL merger, that would be interesting, as their respecti
28 Avatordon : In this entire thread about DL, there's been a lot of talk about CO at EWR, and the inability for JFK to be a hub. There hasn't been any mention thoug
29 BY738 : So other DL UK routes from JFK are still on the cards ?
30 Dutchjet : You raise a good point, also consider that AA took over TWA which had a hub/gateway operation at JFK for years and years. AA does have a considerable
31 OttoPylit : Where the heck did you hear this? Asked for an extension? In bankruptcy? For your information, DL has not needed to "ask for an extension" as you put
32 Dutchjet : On this past Wednesday, Delta asked for a four month delay to file its reorganization plan (this is the second delay that DL has requested)....that be
33 Alitalia744 : Yes they filed a delay on the reorganization plan. Given constant market changes, they're looking at a number of items that shift as they put their p
34 Post contains links Dl757md : Still in bankruptcy? Yes. Doing an outstanding job at turning things around in bankruptcy? Yes. Asked for an extension? Yes. Was driven by creditors
35 MAH4546 : The destinations Delta is adding have not been released, only speclulated. LGW is not guaranteed to be one of them.
36 Avatordon : Dutchjet, thanks for the reply. I knew that AA wanted to postpone aspects of their terminal, but wasn't aware that they had reduced gate amount. Do yo
37 B707Stu : It sort of amazes and mystifies me that DL will end up with such a large JFK International business. Let's remember this was Pan Am's terminal and ba
38 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Here we go again... Super Hub, Mega Hub, Ultra Hub, World hub Ever heard of AA, DL, B6... Look at their schedules from JFK!
39 DL Widget Head : Super hub. Maybe in CO's world but compared to the rest of the USA I can only think of 2 real SUPER hubs, those being DL's ATL and AA's DFW. All the
40 RJpieces : Sure EWR is nothing next to ATL and DFW in terms of aircraft movements...But EWR is by far the best strategically placed hub in the country. There ar
41 DL Widget Head : Can you name a few? I'm not sure of the numbers but I pretty sure JFK is a busier airport in terms of passengers than EWR and getting bigger all the
42 OttoPylit : Yes, a delay to file the reorganization plan, but that has not changed the time frame of when DL will exit bankruptcy. A rumor circulating through DL
43 Dutchjet : Its amazing how every discussion about DL at JFK results in people attacking CO's huge success at EWR....its almost as if the DL gang is obsessed with
44 RJpieces : Hong Kong, Beijing, Delhi, all of the 757 "regional European" routes... JFK is busier than EWR because of jetBlue's extraordinary growth.
45 Dutchjet : Isnt that what I said - the plan is delayed but DL still plans to exit bankruptcy during the 1st quarter of 2007? Why quote something if you have not
46 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Huh? Ever heard of Dallas. DFW, Denver, Chicago. ORD, Houston. IAH? Like Moscow, Athens, Dakar, Venice, Munich, Istanbul, Caracas, Rio de Janeiro, Se
47 RJpieces : None of these can compete with the advantage that CO and EWR have in catering to the NYC market, which is by far the most important market in the cou
48 DL Widget Head : So, these are the routes that you submit that never in a million years would be served from ATL or DFW. You're just naming routes that are currently
49 MalpensaSFO : Funny, your original response said nothing of New York .. See Below..
50 Dutchjet : Wow, calm down, I made a general comment that was not directed at you or anyone else in particular.......do read the entire thread and the one that c
51 DL Widget Head : I'm not in the least bit riled up. It's amazing how you can extrapolate anger out of my comments. I didn't even use any exclamation points. Cheers!
52 MalpensaSFO : RJPieces... So, now what routes was it that ATL will never serve in a miilion years? As facts would allow.. Athens Dakar Johannesburg Moscow Nice Seou
53 CALMSP : i believe we would serve those cities as well as DL from ATL.........however, when you have a fleet size of DL in comparison to CO.............we just
54 WorldTraveler : Dutchjet in reply 17 accurately summarizes DL's history at JFK but it doesn't necessarily say anything about what the future holds. What is apparent i
55 MalpensaSFO : In the past CO did everything but start ATH, SVO, and DME.. GIG was served one stop from IAH, and at one point nonstop from EWR. They were found to b
56 CALMSP : we still fly CCS, however, we fly it when the traffic warrants the route........I'm not sure what your point is about ATH/Moscow......we still have ev
57 CentPIT : Can you explain how LGW is slot restricted? Does this mean US still has a PIT-LGW slot or do they just have so many slots in LGW to serve from where
58 DL Widget Head : I went back to the first thread with well over 200 replies. None of the DL faithful attacked CO at EWR. There were a few references to differences in
59 Dl757md : Did you read the article in the threadstarter of the thread I linked to in reply 34? It clearly explains the conditions leading up to the next wave o
60 CALMSP : I didnt say that!!!!!!!!!!
61 Dl757md : No you didn't. I must have clicked on the quote selected text button on your post above the post by WorldTraveler that I meant to quote. DL757Md
62 STT757 : Look at the schedules for flights to Boston, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa,Washington DC, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dallas/Ft.Worth, At
63 DL Widget Head : This could go on all night. EWR doesn't serve N/S regional places in the south such as MCN, MOB, EYW, PFN etc. but it could be done if CO or another
64 RJpieces : Any idea how are they planning on doing this?
65 Positiverate : WN is considered a major and, last time I checked anyway, they were performing a little better then CO.
66 Post contains links STT757 : This is what is in the news lately: http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey.../news-3/114870417981540.xml&coll=1 http://www.faa.gov/events/benchmarks/DO
67 Positiverate : Don't forget, LHR for DL all has to do with the NPRM on US/EU Open Skies (which the House voted to table last week for a year). So for a year at leas
68 DL Widget Head : And make no mistake, CO is only in the position they're in now by virtue of 2 and almost 3 bankruptcies. I take nothing away from their remarkable tu
69 STT757 : CO's turn around included these ingrediants: Strong Leadership, Gordon Bethune who began his career as a Navy Aircraft Mechanic and would go on to be
70 Jetdeltamsy : That is not an option. United may not sell slots at LHR. Only two US carriers are allowed into LHR...UA and AA. That's it Period.
71 Jetdeltamsy : You clearly do not understand the law regulating LHR. The British government allows only United and American to operate into LHR. UA or AA may sell t
72 Jbmitt : I don't care what you think about DL..for example: I live in Cincinnati, and I will always fly Delta even if its more expensive. I get the CRC, bigge
73 Apodino : Hold on. Comparing EWR to LGW is an apples to oranges comparison. Yes LGW handles more passengers than EWR. But I would be curious to see aircraft mo
74 Panamair : And how do you know that the current batch of DL management is not providing 'strong leadership'? Even some pilots, certainly no fans of DL managemen
75 SparkingWave : You have it backwards. After all, DL is in bankruptcy now. UA is not. UA will probably be the airline picking up some of DL's assets should it collap
76 OttoPylit : Geesh Dutchjet, calm down. I was making 2 points. One, that I agree with you and supporting your point. And two, adding a possible rumor that is soun
77 Panamair : Excellent points. As I mentioned in the other thread, DL's previous attempts to do something at JFK have been half-hearted ones at best. Their focus
78 Post contains links RL757PVD : Here's the PR for Mumbai and Also JFK-Accra http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060619/100884.html Looks like the 777 routing is: (over several days mind you, not
79 Nycfly75 : I do understand the law, and you answewred the question for me. Delta could theoretically buy United's LHR routes as a whole. Chances of it happening
80 Dutchjet : Lovely......YOU misquote me and turn around what I say, and its my fault. You can be sure that I will no longer quote you - you dont really have anyt
81 LipeGIG : GIG is still served from IAH as IAH-GRU-GIG. As far as i know due to the strong oil industry in Rio, they use their 764 on the route, while EWR-GRU s
82 Ultrapig : excuse me-I thougth that previous A.net posters had said that JFK to Mumbai was too far for the 777-200er and that jfk-del was a slight stretch? what
83 WorldTraveler : Aerowesty, The report you cite does show the conventional and accepted wisdom that LHR is the preferred London airport. However, LHR is not the only a
84 Incitatus : If Delta had results that (positively) dropped people's jaws, it would be out of Ch11. Delta's May domestic load factor was, plain and simple, crap.
85 CALMSP : yes, we run into problems flying DEL-EWR...............but we do hold more pax, but I imagine that DL will soon find some problems on the payload flyi
86 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Now that's really looking at things from a very logical perspective . Umm, maybe the threat of a pilot strike could have had something to do with it?
87 AirMailer : I think that it would be good for everyone to also consider these facts: All figures above were 2005 passenger totals taken from the websites of the
88 STT757 : 11/29 is used everyday, last time I was there over the Weekend there was a CO 767-400 landing on 11. Everything can land on 11/29, departures is wher
89 AeroWesty : Correct, there is only a market for LGW because those airlines can't operate into LHR. What I was responding to, however, was this: I don't believe t
90 AvConsultant : I hope CO is not flying a 735 to YQM. There is not enough O&D to support that aircraft. Do not rule out a Board of Director's who brought the industr
91 ArtieFufkin : Avconsultant. It's silly little game they play. The CO kewl kids like to bring up totally subjective, debatable, intangible knocks against Delta. Emp
92 MSYtristar : ERJ-145 service EWR-YQM.
93 PRAirbus : What's going on w/AA at JFK? They have the space and the gates to add new services yet they claim most of the European routes they were to launch woul
94 Panamair : Oh, don't worry. Even with the monthly reports, they'll come at you with: "It's only one month's results...we'll see what happens next month.." And t
95 ArtieFufkin : AA is looking at a 1.5 cent disadvantage in adjusted CASM compared to Delta. . Plus Skyteam sort of stacks the deck in much of Europe making things ha
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