FSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 13 Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17148 times:
Just wondering. I don't know much about their operations, and 45 seemed like an unbelievable number of A380s for an airline in that region. Somebody please educate me. Are they really that huge of an operation out there in the UAE?
ElGreco From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17104 times:
I don't know, but they will pay a part of my salary during few years, Thanks for that.
No seriously, even if it's look creasy, they are a very efficient airlines, and they will managed that brand new fleet.
I have meet few times one vice president of Emirates responsible of Cabin, and it's impressive how efficient way of management they have, they just decided and they put enought money, and then no discussion, just action, they are "Yes" or "No" guys, not at all "Yes But Guys".
If EADS and Airbus (especially French part of Airbus) can decided in that way, end of problems.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17056 times:
Quoting ElGreco (Reply 1): I have meet few times one vice president of Emirates responsible of Cabin, and it's impressive how efficient way of management they have, they just decided and they put enought money, and then no discussion, just action, they are "Yes" or "No" guys, not at all "Yes But Guys".
That works well in the military, but I wonder if it works when you're looking at civilian issues with much larger cognitive variables.
NASA's "only say yes" policy, so to speak, apparently didn't serve it very well regarding the two massive Shuttle disasters of historical record.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16951 times:
Quoting Adria (Reply 3): but NASA is a government "company", they cannot get out of business. Emirates can so their decisions are made far more carefully and profit is all that matters
I will have to think about that.
I think that management problems are similar all across the board.
It seems to me that there is a "military-oriented" way of thinking on the part of some large aviation-related concerns, including government bureaucracies in that field, but on the other hand, not all government agencies depend on "yes men". The judicial system, for example, values the opinion of laymen (juries), and the independence of its judges except where precedent applies.
Further, within corporations, there are various interests, including, for example, shareholder classes; overall management (the Board of Directors); and everyday management (from the President on down). Sometimes, strategic direction is the product of decisions within management that are controversial. The same may be true by analogy in government, admittedly.
But I think it remains true that a corporate culture in which one faction's beliefs are "yes-menned" because it happens to hold all the cards is one that could -- could -- invite disaster, if minority interests are not sufficiently heard.
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6483 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16697 times:
How often do pilgrims travel to Mecca per year, that can't be the only reason for the purchase. I do believe this was discussed before, I would have to look in the archives, main thing I remember was some persons saying it was for projected growth as they are attempting to create a mega hub for tourist as well as a transfer point from the Far East to West and vice versa.
An interesting thing now, is with the delays of the A380, how long will it now take for them to get all 45, is it possible for them to be retiring the first when the last is delivered? Additionally, the slower delivery rate could be a blessing in case growth does not occur as planed.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16697 times:
Quoting FSPilot747 (Thread starter): Somebody please educate me. Are they really that huge of an operation out there in the UAE?
Speculation as to EK's intentions is one of the favorite guessing games on this, and many other forums. My personal opinion: market domination of South Asia, a significant share in East Asia, total market domination in the Middle East and Africa, and bleeding the major European carriers white. Other than that, I hear they're really nice guys to have a beer with....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
NWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16541 times:
We may think an A380 is the right size but when you compete with 777's, it will be harder to fill the A380 and that flight will have to be downgraded. How popular is the 747 now compared to 20 years ago? It's hard to fly a 747 when you compete with 777's. And also remember all the 747's across the Atlantic? Now seems like more and more they are 757's. The A380 may "be the right size for now" but in the future i believe it will just be "too large". Robert NWDC10
Lehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 22 Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16436 times:
Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 10): The A380 may "be the right size for now" but in the future i believe it will just be "too large".
You might want to flip that around, those carriers that have revealed their plans for seating do not go to the specification of 555 seats in 3-classes. This plane is designed for thr future, not for now, this isn't a smaller aircraft.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
Dl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 18 Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16436 times:
Is EK a stand alone-self supporting corporation or does it have government/oil backing? If the latter is true with today's oil prices they could be buying them just to park them wingtip to wingtip and say "what a cool 2 miles long row of airplanes". Seriously if they have that backing it's easy to be a yes or no manager. There a few if any consequences if you make a mistake. Hence, you don't need to mull over decisions and consider the ramifications of them.
If they are indeed completely self supporting then we'll have to wait and see what they have planned for them.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16405 times:
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
Nothing now due to more delays so they will wait longer and plan their world domination.
To answer the original post, the key to understanding EK is to think of them as the "world's airline"......connecting cities all over the world via their centrally located Dubai hub. Also look for EK to enter markets where 5th freedom and other such rights are availabe.....JFK-HAM and the Trans-Tasman services are previews of things to come. Thats the plan, lets see if EK can continue to pull it off.
As for the A380s, EK believes that it can run the A380 on any route that can now support the 773.....they expect demand and their market share to grow and therefore they "need" all of those A380s. I think that EK already flies 7 or 8 A330/777 flights per day between London and Dubai, for example, the London route alone may require up to 8 A380s each operating one roundtrip per day on the route.
Will all of this work out? A lot depends upon whether the spectacular growth in Dubai itself continues, and so much depends upon how existing global airlines (think SQ) and new competitors (think Eithad and Qatar) respond. So far, EK has done rather well.......we shall see if the success continues.
Star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16316 times:
Quoting ATCT (Reply 17): With the growth of the middle east, I could see them coming to the states on some runs.
Keep in mind that the Middle East actually isn't all that relevant to EK's plans, except for its location. EK are already turning DXB into a reincarnation of the concept adopted in SIN for many years - a very efficient transit point. The advantage DXB has over SIN is it's geographic position; it's close enough to both Europe and most of the US to 'catch' traffic from that direction and deliver it to virtually anywhere East or South of it. This isn't a future plan for them - they're already doing it now. A380s are just the next phase of this, increasing capacity on the huge trunk routes, many of which MalpensaSFO mentions above. Makes complete sense.
Star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16274 times:
In fact - to illustrate this in an example, look at routes like GRU-BKK. There probably is some demand for a route like this, but whether a whole aircraft could ever be profitable is very doubtful. But if you route the traffic through DXB, the route is only 400nm longer:
However, that aircraft you're sending all the way out to GRU can now pick up pax who want to go to any of the other sensible destination locations - SIN,HKG,KUL, plus a dozen locations in Eastern Europe. Suddenly the idea of even a larger aircraft on this route starts to make sense. Replicate this process across a whole range of destinations and you have the essence of EK's business model.
But there will always be competition. If I made a plane and the market was for just shy of 400 units and 350 was break-even, I'd be happy. See, if you don't have [high] expectations, then anything out of the ordinary is a plus.
Variance of aircraft size depends on things like too many people travelling the same route to redistrubuting those people to fly more frequently.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
American777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 16158 times:
Like I said before in my old "EK Bankruptcy" topic, that how the heck are they going to fill all those 500-800 passenger jets, EK, believe me, is going to later be suffering a lot! They are going to run out of cash! Even KA has already been in problems due to that they ordered the A380 so early, together with other large amount of aircraft. I know you all are gonna say that they know what they are doing, but really trust me, I have heard that before about other airlines and that was NOT TRUE! Those other airlines did the same thing and they went out of business. A new airline ordering a lot of planes at the same time is not just a good way to start. I know EK was found in 1985 but is not that old yet. What I am trying to say is that for example AA ordered a bunch of planes at a same time but they had alredy been in business for a long time and had the exact money they needed. EK by the way is going to make payments at different times to cover their A380 and 777 payments and probably search for money as an emergency.
So lets just see who is right in a few years to come.