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What Is Emirates Going To Do With 45 A380s?  
User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 18192 times:

Just wondering. I don't know much about their operations, and 45 seemed like an unbelievable number of A380s for an airline in that region. Somebody please educate me. Are they really that huge of an operation out there in the UAE?

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineElGreco From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 18148 times:

I don't know, but they will pay a part of my salary during few years, Thanks for that.

No seriously, even if it's look creasy, they are a very efficient airlines, and they will managed that brand new fleet.

I have meet few times one vice president of Emirates responsible of Cabin, and it's impressive how efficient way of management they have, they just decided and they put enought money, and then no discussion, just action, they are "Yes" or "No" guys, not at all "Yes But Guys".

If EADS and Airbus (especially French part of Airbus) can decided in that way, end of problems.

El Greco



When you are right alone, you are wrong
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 18100 times:

Quoting ElGreco (Reply 1):
I have meet few times one vice president of Emirates responsible of Cabin, and it's impressive how efficient way of management they have, they just decided and they put enought money, and then no discussion, just action, they are "Yes" or "No" guys, not at all "Yes But Guys".

That works well in the military, but I wonder if it works when you're looking at civilian issues with much larger cognitive variables.

NASA's "only say yes" policy, so to speak, apparently didn't serve it very well regarding the two massive Shuttle disasters of historical record.


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18055 times:

but NASA is a government "company", they cannot get out of business. Emirates can so their decisions are made far more carefully and profit is all that matters

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17995 times:

Quoting Adria (Reply 3):
but NASA is a government "company", they cannot get out of business. Emirates can so their decisions are made far more carefully and profit is all that matters

I will have to think about that.

I think that management problems are similar all across the board.

It seems to me that there is a "military-oriented" way of thinking on the part of some large aviation-related concerns, including government bureaucracies in that field, but on the other hand, not all government agencies depend on "yes men". The judicial system, for example, values the opinion of laymen (juries), and the independence of its judges except where precedent applies.

Further, within corporations, there are various interests, including, for example, shareholder classes; overall management (the Board of Directors); and everyday management (from the President on down). Sometimes, strategic direction is the product of decisions within management that are controversial. The same may be true by analogy in government, admittedly.

But I think it remains true that a corporate culture in which one faction's beliefs are "yes-menned" because it happens to hold all the cards is one that could -- could -- invite disaster, if minority interests are not sufficiently heard.

[Edited 2006-06-18 23:53:00]

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 17789 times:

Isn't EMIRATES trying to catch the pilgrims to Mecca market?
If tenths of millions travel to Mecca every year, EMIRATES flying them there via DXB on A380 may seem logical.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7625 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17741 times:

How often do pilgrims travel to Mecca per year, that can't be the only reason for the purchase. I do believe this was discussed before, I would have to look in the archives, main thing I remember was some persons saying it was for projected growth as they are attempting to create a mega hub for tourist as well as a transfer point from the Far East to West and vice versa.

An interesting thing now, is with the delays of the A380, how long will it now take for them to get all 45, is it possible for them to be retiring the first when the last is delivered? Additionally, the slower delivery rate could be a blessing in case growth does not occur as planed.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17741 times:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Thread starter):
Somebody please educate me. Are they really that huge of an operation out there in the UAE?

Speculation as to EK's intentions is one of the favorite guessing games on this, and many other forums. My personal opinion: market domination of South Asia, a significant share in East Asia, total market domination in the Middle East and Africa, and bleeding the major European carriers white. Other than that, I hear they're really nice guys to have a beer with....  Wink



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17677 times:

What Cathay a one city based airline was doing with all their aircraft ?

Welcome to the era of megacities.

Dubai is often called the "middle east Hong Kong" and it is getting richer, growing fast, also attracts a lot of tourism and is geographical position is almost perfect.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17617 times:

It is 43 A380s, not 45. Quite a common mistake.

Originally, 41 pax and 2 freighter. Now, they are 43 pax.


User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17585 times:

We may think an A380 is the right size but when you compete with 777's, it will be harder to fill the A380 and that flight will have to be downgraded. How popular is the 747 now compared to 20 years ago? It's hard to fly a 747 when you compete with 777's. And also remember all the 747's across the Atlantic? Now seems like more and more they are 757's. The A380 may "be the right size for now" but in the future i believe it will just be "too large". Robert NWDC10

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17565 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):

I'll condense my previous post into one sentence: EK is out for world domination. Simple as that.  duck 



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

DXB-LHR
DXB-LGW
DXB-CDG
DXB-FRA
DXB-ZRH
DXB-SYD
DXB-BKK-HKG
DXB-HKG
DXB-SIN
DXB-CGK
DXB-JFK
DXB-JNB
DXB-BOM
DXB-DEL
DXB-JED
DXB-CAI

et al are all possible suspects...


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Thread starter):
What Is Emirates Going To Do With 45 A380s?

Nothing now due to more delays so they will wait longer and plan their world domination.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17480 times:

Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 10):
The A380 may "be the right size for now" but in the future i believe it will just be "too large".

You might want to flip that around, those carriers that have revealed their plans for seating do not go to the specification of 555 seats in 3-classes. This plane is designed for thr future, not for now, this isn't a smaller aircraft.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17480 times:

Is EK a stand alone-self supporting corporation or does it have government/oil backing? If the latter is true with today's oil prices they could be buying them just to park them wingtip to wingtip and say "what a cool 2 miles long row of airplanes". Seriously if they have that backing it's easy to be a yes or no manager. There a few if any consequences if you make a mistake. Hence, you don't need to mull over decisions and consider the ramifications of them.
If they are indeed completely self supporting then we'll have to wait and see what they have planned for them.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17449 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):

Nothing now due to more delays so they will wait longer and plan their world domination.

Ouch.

To answer the original post, the key to understanding EK is to think of them as the "world's airline"......connecting cities all over the world via their centrally located Dubai hub. Also look for EK to enter markets where 5th freedom and other such rights are availabe.....JFK-HAM and the Trans-Tasman services are previews of things to come. Thats the plan, lets see if EK can continue to pull it off.

As for the A380s, EK believes that it can run the A380 on any route that can now support the 773.....they expect demand and their market share to grow and therefore they "need" all of those A380s. I think that EK already flies 7 or 8 A330/777 flights per day between London and Dubai, for example, the London route alone may require up to 8 A380s each operating one roundtrip per day on the route.

Will all of this work out? A lot depends upon whether the spectacular growth in Dubai itself continues, and so much depends upon how existing global airlines (think SQ) and new competitors (think Eithad and Qatar) respond. So far, EK has done rather well.......we shall see if the success continues.


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2345 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17438 times:

What are they gonna dow with em?

Fly them  duck 

(Cant believe im the first to say this).

Anywho I look forward to seeing a fleet that large. Maybe some service to larger US cities? With the growth of the middle east, I could see them coming to the states on some runs.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17389 times:

Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 10):
We may think an A380 is the right size but when you compete with 777's, it will be harder to fill the A380 and that flight will have to be downgraded.

There will probably be competition on their routs with smaller aircraft like 777's and that's why i think the A380 will be too large. Robert NWDC10


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17360 times:

Quoting ATCT (Reply 17):
With the growth of the middle east, I could see them coming to the states on some runs.

Keep in mind that the Middle East actually isn't all that relevant to EK's plans, except for its location. EK are already turning DXB into a reincarnation of the concept adopted in SIN for many years - a very efficient transit point. The advantage DXB has over SIN is it's geographic position; it's close enough to both Europe and most of the US to 'catch' traffic from that direction and deliver it to virtually anywhere East or South of it. This isn't a future plan for them - they're already doing it now. A380s are just the next phase of this, increasing capacity on the huge trunk routes, many of which MalpensaSFO mentions above. Makes complete sense.


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17318 times:

In fact - to illustrate this in an example, look at routes like GRU-BKK. There probably is some demand for a route like this, but whether a whole aircraft could ever be profitable is very doubtful. But if you route the traffic through DXB, the route is only 400nm longer:



However, that aircraft you're sending all the way out to GRU can now pick up pax who want to go to any of the other sensible destination locations - SIN,HKG,KUL, plus a dozen locations in Eastern Europe. Suddenly the idea of even a larger aircraft on this route starts to make sense. Replicate this process across a whole range of destinations and you have the essence of EK's business model.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 17305 times:

Quoting NWDC10 (Reply 18):
smaller aircraft like 777's

Why does that make me laugh?

But there will always be competition. If I made a plane and the market was for just shy of 400 units and 350 was break-even, I'd be happy. See, if you don't have [high] expectations, then anything out of the ordinary is a plus.  Wink

Variance of aircraft size depends on things like too many people travelling the same route to redistrubuting those people to fly more frequently.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17202 times:

Like I said before in my old "EK Bankruptcy" topic, that how the heck are they going to fill all those 500-800 passenger jets, EK, believe me, is going to later be suffering a lot! They are going to run out of cash! Even KA has already been in problems due to that they ordered the A380 so early, together with other large amount of aircraft. I know you all are gonna say that they know what they are doing, but really trust me, I have heard that before about other airlines and that was NOT TRUE! Those other airlines did the same thing and they went out of business. A new airline ordering a lot of planes at the same time is not just a good way to start. I know EK was found in 1985 but is not that old yet. What I am trying to say is that for example AA ordered a bunch of planes at a same time but they had alredy been in business for a long time and had the exact money they needed. EK by the way is going to make payments at different times to cover their A380 and 777 payments and probably search for money as an emergency.

So lets just see who is right in a few years to come.

Joe.  Wink


User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17134 times:

Quoting Star_world (Reply 23):
Maybe you should write them a letter to tell them this before they make any more mistakes

Please, do not start to act as a smart person trying to correct me!

That is just my personal opinion on the topic and who ever is against it or not understandable with it, I don't care, is just my PERSONAL OPINION!

Joe.  Wink


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 17109 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 24):
just my PERSONAL OPINION!

ssssh, no need to shout  Wink

And my post was, of course my own personal opinion too. As is the rest of this forum. Being that sensitive whenever someone questions it is hardly very productive.


25 Reggaebird : Well, last week there were reports that EK was looking into buying BA. Both carriers denied this but that may be EK's strategy. Buy some major Europea
26 Post contains images American777 : Personal opinion mentioning to someone what they shuould do as if they were going to! Why follow the good rules of an IT consultany? Just stupid! Joe
27 DL021 : "The same thing we do every night, Pinky......plan to take over the WORLD!!!" EK is looking to establish market presence in several areas and they are
28 Post contains links BoeingFever777 : LOL... What a joke. Thanks for the laugh. You honestly believe what you said? So since your a EK accountant I'm sure you can tell us their income sin
29 American777 : Sorry for that, but I was trying to mention Kingfisher Airlines of India. Now as I told before to Mr. star_world, it is just MY OPINION, and I could
30 NWDC10 : Can anyone say "PeopleExpress"? Robert NWDC10
31 American777 : What do you mean?
32 Ptharris : Correct me if I'm wrong, and I have much faith that I will be corrected quickly if I am, but I heard once that UAE ticket prices are very very afforda
33 NWDC10 : American777, i wasn't flaming you or anything. It's not good for an airline to "grow too fast". Robert NWDC10
34 Post contains images QXatFAT : Then dont get a wild hair when other people comment on your "opinions" QXatFAT
35 Joni : Haven't we had this thread already?
36 LY777 : maybe they will lease some A380s to other carriers...
37 Zvezda : There are several possibilities. EK could: a) cancel orders, b) operate them at a profit, c) operate them at a loss, d) park them in the desert, e) se
38 UAL777UK : Or maybe with the fiasco at Airbus and all the delays they will cancel the order and go for the 747-8i instead!!
39 Post contains links TWAtwaTWA : People Express was a lowcost airline that expanded too quickly in the 1980s after expanding too quickly. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Exp
40 LY777 : I don't think so.they will never cancel their A380 order.Never!!!
41 Toptravel : I glady fly EK to Australia at least twice a year from Rome and have done so for the last three years. I have yet to be on a flight that isn't flying
42 Post contains images GBan : It was about time to restart it. Now I'm impatiently waiting for the next Concorde of the 21st century thread
43 Pavlin : I just hope they don't end up broke after all those orders
44 BrightCedars : I believe they can fill the A380s on trunk routes. 43 isn't that huge of a number when you consider, as mentioned, that they can probably put 8-12 on
45 Post contains images EK345 : Simple... EK is going to take over the world EK345
46 Karan69 : I recently[6 mths ago] finished a 100 mark project on EK which was awarded an A grade, i did do a lot of research regarding their A380s. Fisrt of all
47 Karan69 : Atleast 1 flight at LGW and 2 at LHR requiring 3 x A380s 1 flight each requiring 2x 380s Atleast the daily non-stop requiring 2 x 380s 1 flight requi
48 Aither : You guys got really a lack of vision. Dubai is not the united states, Dubai is not New York, EK is not a an american airline, and middle east is not t
49 MotorHussy : And it would make sense to carry this flight on to AKL as is done currently. DXB-SYD-AKL Regards MH
50 Cedars747 : It's simple,Emirate will become the first intercontinental LCC in the world.They will connect the world via DXB "same as Ryanair but with A380" Alex!
51 Post contains images Rolfen : It dont think it's "military thinking". I dont think the decision is top-down like in the military. Plus these guys seem to have huge resources and d
52 Pavlin : Dream on. What about when the pipes dry out?
53 Star_world : Give it a rest. If you did even the most basic, superficial research you'd realise two things: a) EK is a private company, not one that owns any oil
54 Post contains images UAL777UK : Your proabably right besides, with all the penalties Airbus must be paying them it will probably end up with EK getting a free 380!!
55 Post contains images Gr8Circle : As airlines like EK and others go about ordering 380's haphazardly, are the airplane storage / graveyards out in Arizona and other places also gearing
56 Post contains images Solnabo : Fly them?(cant belive I´m the first to say this) Second that ATCT! Micke//SWE
57 Zamaria : While in negotiations, does an airplane manufacturer make more than a cursory attempt to find out how the airline proposes to use the planes they are
58 United787 : Isn't it more 767s? I can understand this for London to Australia routes, but Europe to Asia doesn't need a transfer point or major hub. If you buy B
59 Naritaflyer : Remember that not all 45 will arrive at once. The delivery schedule is spread over 7 to 10 years. So you are looking at 6 aircraft per year. At the co
60 Shane : What about that long-awaited flight to SFO?
61 Post contains images Flight7E7 : Having just flown the SIN-DXB segment on EK last week, they pale in service as comparison to SQ, CX. They are NOT the world class carrier everyone exp
62 Ptharris : I would agree with you to a point. I'm sure since they're the ones pumping the oil out to these countries, they've hedged prices to stay within their
63 AndrewUber : Dubai is NOT an oil-rich nation.
64 Ptharris : Don't they have financial backing from oil rich nations?
65 David_itl : As well as the "major" routes that they'll use the A380 on, don't forget that there are some "secondary" cities that they serve which may end up with
66 Post contains links YOWguy : Remember that Dubai has money... Expensive hotels...$2178 for a two bedroom suite. http://www.burj-al-arab.com/
67 Shane : Dubai is also not a nation. It's a city the last time I checked.
68 DreamsUnited : Didn't Emrates cancel or threaten to cancel those orders? That is why Airbus painted one in their livery right? And where did they get the money for t
69 Post contains images PlaneHunter : How and when? No other airline in history is comparable to EK, just like the development of Dubai. As long as Dubai grows, EK can sustain its growth
70 DreamsUnited : Oh, I thought maybe I was wrong about that one How much land are they using and is the whole thing owned by Emrates? So will they profit more-so if t
71 EK156 : Actually, and to the surprise of many on A.net, JET FUEL in Dubai cost 4 or 5 times more than that in the USA. I know that because I have a Florida a
72 Scbriml : Indeed. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop the same old drivel being wheeled out for the weekly "What is EK going to do with all those planes?" thread.
73 74472 : This is all such a load of old pants. Not everyone is gonna want to route through DXB on that flying cattle wagon you know. I think I must be 'royally
74 Zkpilot : last time I checked it was $2 per barrel cheaper in DBX... which isn't much at all..maybe $20million for an airline like EK over a year. Fuel is defi
75 Zvezda : That's impossible. Jet Fuel is a commodity. If the price were double, people would be flocking to buy Jet Fuel in the States and ship it to Dubai for
76 Scbriml : I didn't actually say 4-5 times, I was simply agreeing that it is more expensive. It is. See below. I believe the UAE has no refining capability to p
77 TAN FLYR : I'm waiting for a new "when will NW park their DC-9"s" or "how soon or how will AA replace all 300+ MD80's" Threads??? LOL!
78 FlyingKangaroo : Like PlaneHunter said, the A380 was painted in EK's colors for the Dubai Air Show, merely for PR purposes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the
79 Klyk1980 : This is a very nice topic to discuss and it shows some of you are really narrow vision. US is the country with largest aviation activities, but it doe
80 EK156 : Exactly. Thank you for clarifying that. When I used to refuel the planes in Dubai I paid 4 times more than what i used to pay in the USA. And I have
81 Chase : I'd just like to point out that 43 A380s = 23865 seats. Staggering! I've lived in towns half that size.
82 Boysteve : It doesn't matter how good the B787 will be. No-one will fly it from MAN to all of BKK, PVG, PEK, KIX, NRT etc daily, neither will they from HAM, DUS
83 B777ER : I bet their pilots would not agree with that statement. Check the pprune boards and search Emirates.
84 Adria : not true, a private company is more profit oriented than a government owned and because of that the decision process look a little bit different. The
85 Lumberton : I did. They don't sound like a happy bunch, do they?
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