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CO's Most Profitable International Routes?  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 8533 times:

Any CO folks know which International routes are most profitable for them? I'm curious if the new lucrative service to India and China are becoming some of their strongest routes...

Any information is appreciated.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 8531 times:
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DEL is a huge money maker for us right now..............if we had the planes....I'm sure we would add a second route. TLV is very big for us, not only pax wise, but cargo is just a large moneymaker for us. so much so that we are chartering cargo planes to carry our cargo TLV-JFK.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 8518 times:

No Continental folks in this forum don't know any more about which routes are profitable and which are not than anyone else. Any information employees receive is public information.

Confidential, internal information rarely makes its way onto these boards.

Airlines do not generally publicly disclose the profitability of any particular route.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8426 times:

From what I've read EWR-TLV is near or at the top, also IAH-LGW. IAH-London performs very well because of the Oil traffic transiting through London on the way to the North Sea, West African and Southern former Soviet Republic oil fields.

The oil traffic is why Houston is the only US City to get flights on BA to both LGW (nonstop) and LHR (one stop via ORD), IAH-AMS is another big oil route with KLM flying twice daily and CO 10Xs weekly.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

What about HKG-EWR? From what I heard this route is always full and it is very profitable too

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8387 times:

Here's a five page article from a week or two ago about how CO makes money on their International routes.

http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/in...952050931930.xml&coll=1&thispage=1



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8360 times:

Cant tell you about current status with fuel at $70/bbl however during early 2005 I took part in a study that covered several US carrier international operations. The following international showed as being overall profitable for CO in 2004.

Atlantic
-------
EWR-LGW
EWR-BHX
EWR-DUB
EWR-GLA
EWR-MAN
EWR-AMS
EWR-LIS
EWR-MAD
EWR-MXP
EWR-TLV

Asia
----
IAH-NRT

Latin America
-------------
EWR-GUA
EWR-LIM
IAH-PTY
IAH-GRU

Keep in mind not all routes were profitable all quarters. Also many variables such as currency exchange rates play into the mix can cause one route to swing from profit to loss rather easily even with all other variable such as yield and loads remaining steady.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRamerinianAir From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Laxintl,
Are they in any specific order?
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8152 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Any CO folks know which International routes are most profitable for them? I'm curious if the new lucrative service to India and China are becoming some of their strongest routes...

Any information is appreciated.

A recent Lehman Brothers analysis listed the following as being CO's most profitable international routes, for the twelve months ending June 2005:

IAH-LGW $50.1 million
IAH-NRT $46.4 million
EWR-TLV $43.8 million
IAH-GRU $41.4 million
EWR-GRU $31.8 million

And, if you're curious, the international routes listed as having lost the most money:

EWR-BHX ($4.8 million)
IAH-GYE ($2.5 million)
EWR-STI ($1.5 million)
IAH-AUA ($1.2 million)
EWR-BRS ($1.0 million)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCOfaninBOS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

Interesting information. Would have never guessed that two of the top three and 3 of the top 5 would be IAH routes!

Also interesting to note that the two supposed money losing routes from IAH are to GYE and AUA. Both of these just run a few times a week depending upon the season. Seems like they'd drop AUA from IAH if it loses that much on just a 2-3 times per week basis.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8016 times:
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IAHcsr or the manager on here from CLE can tell you...

EWR-TLV is money money and money.  dollarsign 

If they had the metal, the rumor is a third flight would fly.

Cheers.


User currently offlineShanderawx From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7819 times:
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Do the above costs include cargo charges?
GYE flights bring in a lot of flowers.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

Strange, no one mentioned the EWR-BRU route, which is supposed to be a huge money maker for CO; many seem to think its one of the most profitable EWR-Europe routes. The loads are very good, and the bizfirst cabin goes out at 35/35 (and no free upgrades here) on just about a daily basis.

User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
also IAH-LGW. IAH-London performs very well because of the Oil traffic transiting through London on the way to the North Sea, West African and Southern former Soviet Republic oil fields.

why does IAH-LGW do so well? I didn't think there were many connecting opportunities there. it would seem you'd need to switch to LHR to catch most connections to oil-rich countries. correct me if I'm wrong.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Airlines do not generally publicly disclose the profitability of any particular route.

 checkmark 

Don't forget that CO is a network carrier - revenue (and profitability) per customer is more important than revenue (and profitability) per sector.

For example BRS-EWR may be loss-making, but if that flight is feeding CO domestic flights ex-EWR at adequate yields the overall contribution would be positive (this is hypothetical - I know nothing about this route's actual performance)


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7405 times:
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well, not only is the IAH-LGW route have many oil industry reps, but the contract that we have with Halliburton/KBR on their way to the middle east is outstanding.........they pay a very high premium price........for those that dont fly up front, are paying top fare in coach.........


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

I would be interested to see what the most profitable routes are based on profit margin (as opposed to total cash) per route was. It would be easier to compare a 737 route to a 777 route.

I know their route here (BZE) is very profitable, but because it is a smaller plane can't generate the HUGE revenue of maybe TLV. I know their IAH-LAX route is always ram jam with transfer LatAm Pax, so obviouly better yields there....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7321 times:
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DEN-IAH is also a good money maker for us as well. Kind of surprising when you look at the possibilities.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1208 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

TLV, DEL, IAH-LGW/NRT are the most consistently strongest markets.

PEK is not doing that great. The J cabin is OK but the Y traffic is not great. There isn't alot of premium Y demand to Beijing. Hong Kong has similar problems. I would imagine that once the 787's arrive those will be some of the early markets to receive them.

Delta is squeezing yields in Europe because of the recent capacity dump


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6475 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7219 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
No Continental folks in this forum don't know any more about which routes are profitable and which are not than anyone else. Any information employees receive is public information.

Confidential, internal information rarely makes its way onto these boards.

Airlines do not generally publicly disclose the profitability of any particular route.

Agree with everything you said. Members of this board, airline employees or not, do not have access to this type info. Only a very few employees of any airline have this info and they DO NOT publish it on this board. Giving opinions is fine, in fact that is the purpose of this board, but please do not report it as fact!


User currently offlineCaptainJon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

Well I was on EWR-TLV / TLV-EWR recently and it was rather full, i dont think there was an empty seat on the plane actually. Lot more crowded than I expected, it was mid-may too so schools were still in session.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
A recent Lehman Brothers analysis listed the following as being CO's most profitable international routes, for the twelve months ending June 2005:

IAH-LGW $50.1 million
IAH-NRT $46.4 million
EWR-TLV $43.8 million
IAH-GRU $41.4 million
EWR-GRU $31.8 million

And, if you're curious, the international routes listed as having lost the most money:

EWR-BHX ($4.8 million)
IAH-GYE ($2.5 million)
EWR-STI ($1.5 million)
IAH-AUA ($1.2 million)
EWR-BRS ($1.0 million)



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
Agree with everything you said. Members of this board, airline employees or not, do not have access to this type info. Only a very few employees of any airline have this info and they DO NOT publish it on this board. Giving opinions is fine, in fact that is the purpose of this board, but please do not report it as fact!

Thus we have the Lehman numbers given above as a possible best case to look at, and argue about...

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
Airlines do not generally publicly disclose the profitability of any particular route.

I found what I was lookin for in the below post.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 8):
A recent Lehman Brothers analysis listed the following as being CO's most profitable international routes, for the twelve months ending June 2005:

IAH-LGW $50.1 million
IAH-NRT $46.4 million
EWR-TLV $43.8 million
IAH-GRU $41.4 million
EWR-GRU $31.8 million

And, if you're curious, the international routes listed as having lost the most money:

EWR-BHX ($4.8 million)
IAH-GYE ($2.5 million)
EWR-STI ($1.5 million)
IAH-AUA ($1.2 million)
EWR-BRS ($1.0 million)

Thank you, Ed. That is exactly what I was looking for. Question though...Is this just the total revenue figure? Because if CO operates 2X daily on EWR-TLV but makes a similiar amount of money as the once daily IAH-NRT...Doesn't that mean that IAH-NRT is way more profitable on a per seat basis?

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 1):
TLV is very big for us, not only pax wise, but cargo is just a large moneymaker for us. so much so that we are chartering cargo planes to carry our cargo TLV-JFK.

I had not heard that...Is this just for the summer? Do you know what airline is beign chartered for this? And why not send them to EWR?

Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
TLV, DEL, IAH-LGW/NRT are the most consistently strongest markets.

CO must be very happy with DEL if it's already matching some of the routes they have flown for years already...

Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
PEK is not doing that great. The J cabin is OK but the Y traffic is not great. There isn't alot of premium Y demand to Beijing. Hong Kong has similar problems. I would imagine that once the 787's arrive those will be some of the early markets to receive them.

Thanks for the info.


User currently offlineDutch122 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

And what about IAH-AMS v.v. has been profitable since they started it.

Maybe that's also the reason again to start 3 x weekly again an extra flight on Fr, Sa & Mo.

dutch122


User currently offlineJyatlantic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Any CO folks know which International routes are most profitable for them? I'm curious if the new lucrative service to India and China are becoming some of their strongest routes...

Any information is appreciated.

THat's classified information.


25 Frequentflyer : Am curious how EWR-CDG and IAH-CDG are doing, anybody knows? Thanks Pat
26 Laxintl : Good question... From the list I had derived based on 2004 numbers the routes were defined by margin. So its very possible for a 737 flight to be def
27 Jetdeltamsy : Yea. Whatever. I stand by my statement that individual route profitability is private, internal information that carriers generally do not disclose.
28 RamerinianAir : It also depends where CO splits the ticket fare. Most new cities served from EWR are very reliant on connecting traffic. Example: If you buy a ticket
29 MainMAN : Last summer and possibly 2004 EWR-BHX operated twice daily, and this year it's down to 10 weekly (if that tells you anything!)
30 Rdwelch : I'm not sure about the profitability, but my son is flying DEN-IAH-LGW tomorrow. The DEN-IAH leg is pretty full, but the IAH-LGW leg is airtight. 772
31 Dutchjet : I will keep this simple, there is a lot of misinformation being presented here. Lots of interesting thoughts and analysis, but lots of incorrect concl
32 WorldTraveler : It is indeed possible to determine profitability for airline routes with a reasonable degree of confidence and that is why investment groups release i
33 RJpieces : Of course it's private internal information. But airline analysts do this for a living, and information they release to investors must be very close
34 LTU932 : How's SJO doing for CO from both EWR and IAH?
35 COewrAAtysAZ : I'm really surprised that EWR-FCO has not been mentioned. In my opinion, it is one of the most expensive routes has (summer always over $1100 and duri
36 Post contains images Murrayusa : If I recall correctly in the book "Worst to First", Mr. Gordon Bethune says at the first chapter that IAH LGW is the most profitable flight. I believe
37 LO231 : My thoughts exactly... Regards, LO231
38 Post contains images 787KQ :
39 MasseyBrown : Maybe... Their stock predictions are often far from reality, so we can infer that their data analyses are often faulty as well. I'd say it's more lik
40 EWRCabincrew : You can't base full flights for profitable. Our LAX-PPT-AKL-SYD flights were full. They weren't profitable. Yield wasn't there. It is also the same f
41 Klwright69 : Indeed interesting information. However it doesn't all add up. If BHX is such a dud, why does it get more service than BRS? Also if flights to GRU so
42 COewrAAtysAZ : You are absolutely right, and I knew not to base it solely on load factors. Something about that route, though, knowing more than just load factor ma
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