Bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4932 times:
With their desperate financial position, it seems highly illogical for DL to hold on to fuel-hungry aircraft like 737-200s when they have an ample supply of newer 737-800s.
Some of their older MD-88s gulp down lots of fuel too. Sad to see the 767-200s go....
[Edited 2006-06-20 16:45:02]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
Jbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 509 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4922 times:
ample supply of 737-8?
Ha.. Delta has gotten rid of 100+ mainline planes in the last 5 years with the 727, 737-300's, MD-11's, and the L1011. If they get rid of the 737 and the MD88 they will have 767's and 757's and a slew of regional jets.
Expect them to order planes when they have positive profits, and have emerged from bankruptcy. For the time being, affordable planes that use more gas are just as good as expensive new jets with lower gas. You are correct that the cost of fuel will force them to look towards newer aircraft.
DL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4816 times:
They renegotiated the leases to something insanely cheap (like $15k/month, IIRC) and don't have anything comparable to replace them with. The 738s have 50% more capacity than the 732s and the crews get paid more. The MD-88s are slightly closer in capacity but still have 42 more seats. Expect an eventual E190/E195 order as a 100-seat replacement.
I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4654 times:
AirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 413 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4577 times:
Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 2): Expect an eventual E190/E195 order as a 100-seat replacement.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Please don't do that!!
737-600 before one of those things!.
(I like the concept of an overhead bin that my carry-on can actually fit into.)
Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 2): I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.
Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1): Expect them to order planes when they have positive profits
They actually have 50 738s on order already, expect them to start taking delivery instead of selling them off, once they have profits.
Jbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 509 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4552 times:
I know that they have 738's on order, and 75+ in the fleet. I was saying that they need the 732's flying, because there are not enough 738's. They are short on mainline craft.
They still need a 100 seat plane.. thats the role of the 732.
MrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
I can't beleive this thread has re-surfaced AGAIN. Annie, get my gun!
Hoenstly, it's simple. These aircraft are still economically profitable on the routes DL uses them on. Why burn off another $50 mil in cash on newer equipment? The cost-benefit on fuel economy wouldn't be realized for years anyway..
Delta's not going to hold them forever, but why would anyone want ot rush the B732 out of scheduled domestic US service? They are the queens of the sky! Admittedly, it was kind of weird to taxi past a B732 in our 757 in Atlanta a few weeks ago.. Knowing what it was, I still couldn't help doing a double-take.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
Quoting AirMailer (Reply 5): 737-600 before one of those things!.
DL could recieve 2 EMB for the price of the 737-600. That's an expensive aircraft.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4296 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 10): DL could recieve 2 EMB for the price of the 737-600. That's an expensive aircraft.
Not only that, but it also is a very heavy aircraft as well, and doesn't really offer too many advantages over its next largest sibling, the 73G. Same with the A318: Both are pretty much "bastards" with very few orders that were only launched because it didn't cost too much to develop them.
There's a reason why DL was planning to replace their DLX 732s with 73Gs and not 736s (that was prior to 9-11, plan for 45 73Gs, obviously got cancelled after the attacks).
FRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2316 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4201 times:
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4171 times:
Will these possible future EMB's be operated by Delta or a Delta Connection carrier like Freedom Air which already operates the 170's. It should be Delta......right?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
DL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4143 times:
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13): Will these possible future EMB's be operated by Delta or a Delta Connection carrier like Freedom Air which already operates the 170's. It should be Delta......right?
The new DL pilot contract scope clause limits Connection carriers to 76 seats starting in 2007 (and has restrictions on the numbers of 76-seaters the regionals can fly). E190s and E195s have to be mainline, and the new contract has rates for flying both types.
Skibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4035 times:
Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 8): I can't beleive this thread has re-surfaced AGAIN. Annie, get my gun!
Why would this surprise you? A new NW DC9 thread is started about daily!
Ptharris From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3974 times:
Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 8): Knowing what it was, I still couldn't help doing a double-take.
No kidding. I was connecting in Cinncinatti and we were taxiing to the gate while in a 737-800 and I was looking out the window and noticed the 732's parked at the gate. I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow? Fuel must be cheaper here I guess."
It'll be hard to replace them, but it makes sense the replacement would be the EMB-170/190. The 732's are little rocket ships and still loud even with hush kits. Sure will miss them when they're gone.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3939 times:
I am surprised that the 733 was removed before the 732, but I suppose it boiled down to the 732's smaller capacity, which was desired - while the MD-88s and 738s can replace the 733s for the most part. Was it capacity as I suspect?
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3933 times:
Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 14): The new DL pilot contract scope clause limits Connection carriers to 76 seats starting in 2007 (and has restrictions on the numbers of 76-seaters the regionals can fly). E190s and E195s have to be mainline, and the new contract has rates for flying both types.
Awesome. So that means RIC shouldn't become a Comair Station or anything.
[Edited 2006-06-21 04:15:47]
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4009 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3933 times:
It's nice to see the 732 comin into GSP on my way back from work...though I don't understand why DL flies MD80s and 737s here when everyone else (including DL) flies RJs...those jets can't possibly be full.
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3885 times:
Quoting Ptharris (Reply 16): and noticed the 732's parked at the gate. I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow?
I actually like the 732, the 2ABCD seats are nice.
As for your comments on them, DL needs them IMHO. DL has been hemorraging mainline aircraft much faster than the de-hubbing of DFW and increased aircraft utilization practices.
DL has dropped the 733s, 762s, 732s (in progress), MD-11, 727s, L10's, 4 763s (lease rejections), all in less than 5 years with much less metal coming in.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8772 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3829 times:
Quoting B4real (Reply 20): I actually like the 732, the 2ABCD seats are nice.
I was never a fan of the F seats on the 732s though...the old style F seats on the M80s/763s were a lot more comfortable in my opinion.
Though the 732s had one of my favourite coach seats in the world, 16A/F, as there was no 15A/F. Now, it's down to 11/12 F/G on the 764 (about 40 inches of legroom) and 27A/G on the 763 (no 26A/G)...
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 21): Though the 732s had one of my favourite coach seats in the world, 16A/F, as there was no 15A/F
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
No $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
TWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3569 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 7): Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.
DL website says 32 732s but maybe only half are in operation.
Bmacleod is correct. DL has 17 left in service. Although they have retired alot of them,they still show on their A/C routing index. Most probably they haven't been officially turned over to another company yet. The most accurate data that I found was last updated on 01JUN06. It shows 18 left but doesn't show ship 306 that was retired on 02JUN. I bet this is updated on a monthly basis.
Quoting Ptharris (Reply 16): I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow? Fuel must be cheaper here I guess."
The B727 was a 3 pilot/3 engine/149 pax/ gas hog that was destined to be retired.They were replaced with the B737-800....As stated earlier, DL has a good lease rate for the B737-200 birds.
KD MLB
25 AvConsultant: 4 - 5 years ago GSP was a very profitable city for DL. GSP is one of those regional cities with allegience to a single carrier. SAV, CAE, CHS, BHM, P
26 DAYflyer: The simple fact is: It is cheaper to hold onto a fuel guzzler that is paid for than to fork out $57million in one wack per copy for an airliner.
27 B4real: Yes, especially when you said airline cannot afford to lose any more mainline aircraft either.
28 FutureFO: Freedom does not operate the 170's, they can barely operate the 145's. Shuttle America operates the 170 for DLC. Sean
29 Evan767: Oh shoot that's right. There are too many DLC carriers operating for Delta that I get them all mixed up. Thanks for clearing that up.
30 Milesrich: While the 737-232 is a "gas guzzler," Delta has kept them for the same reason NW keeps DC-9-30's, and the Delta aircraft are much newer (20 years newe
31 Litz: Don't forget Row 19 on the 757 ! 10+ feet of legroom, clear across the entryway @ door 2R ... When they finish the reconfigurations, there'll also be
32 Burnsie28: Just because other airlines cant fill mainline doesnt mean one cant. For instance, NW at MDT, VPS, FAR, DLH, etc. They can fill them, but like FAR, U
33 Derik737: Rumor has it that those remaining 50 slots have now been sold. The person I talked to thought it was a specific leasing company, so I checked with a
34 DALMD88: I'm betting DL will be taking everything we have on order from here on out. Of course one crazy terrorist thing in the world could change that. I stil
35 Antoniemey: The crazy thing about the Islamic terrorists is that they worship the same god as Jews and Christians... they just interpret a bit different the role
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