Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
National Pre 1980 - Hubs And Bases?  
User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

I've been having problems finding info on National Airline's operations prior to the Pan Am merge.....

How many hubs did they have and where were they?

Where were thier FA and Pilot bases?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20499 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

This doesn't answer all your questions, but there are some route maps here:

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-NATIONAL.html



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2112 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Try these sites for information.

http://www.nationalsundowners.com/home.php

http://www.geocities.com/nationalairlines1/



JLB54061
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2026 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

Prior to the merger National's biggest base was probably Miami, although they had respectable operations (maybe 30-50 flights/day) in Houston, New Orleans and New York as well. None of these really qualified as a true "hub" in today's sense of the word, though.

National's 1980 route system resembled a backwards "L," with lots of east-west routes connecting Florida to California, Louisiana and Texas, and lots of north-south routes linking Florida to New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, etc. They also served Norfolk, Newport News, Charleston and Savannah along the east coast.

Unfortunately, having their biggest base in Miami became a problem for National after Deregulation. Nobody in California was going to fly to New York via Miami, as it adds extra hours to the trip. The only point south of Miami that National served was San Juan, which was added just prior to the Pan Am purchase. Except for that one city, there weren't many places that National could funnel passengers to via Miami.

That's what made the expensive National purchase so problematic for Pan Am - it was supposed to give them the domestic network they had lusted after for years (but which the CAB continually denied them.) The addition of National's backwards "L" didn't do much to feed their transatlantic or transpacific routes. What they really needed were more lucrative transcon routes like JFK-LAX, BOS-SFO, etc., and National couldn't provide those. The merger was also sort of pointless in hindsight, as Deregulation allowed PA to add domestic routes at will, so they dropped a lot of their own scarce cash on an airline that didn't give them what they needed. What's more, National - which could have been a post-Deregulation star if it had just more time to grow - was absorbed into the unwieldy, unstable beast that was Pan Am in 1980, and a lot of good people got screwed in the process.

I'm digressing... to get back to your point: National didn't really have any "hubs" per se, but MIA was the biggest station, followed by JFK, IAH and MSY.


User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Jsnww81... THANK YOU so much.... great information!

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

National....at one time,the only carrier to fly coast-to-coast-to-coast.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1149 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

TPA was a decent size station also. typically 35-40 flights a day from say 1974-1979 with 7-15 of those being DC-10's (depending on season) operating from 6 gates.

Cheers

LGA777


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

GO (General Offices) were at MIA. Crew Base MIA. Mtc base MIA. In addition to the flights listed above there was also service to Europe such as London, Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam, and Zurich.
Big version: Width: 80 Height: 74 File size: 2kb


User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Am I reading those timetables right? Seems like they had some routes to Europe out of IAH and MSY?

User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2026 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

The bulk of their European flights were from Miami, but there were a lot of one-stops on DC10s from IAH, TPA and MSY. I believe they did operate a New Orleans-Amsterdam flight for a little while, and possibly a nonstop from Tampa as well.

Of course, on their route maps they showed "nonstops" from MSY, IAH and TPA that were really one-stops, but the reality is that most flights required a stop in Miami, where National had its own customs facility on Concourse F.


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3125 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

I love how the timetable route maps, particularly 1977, lump the cities together into a few single dots. Like: Pensacola/Mobile/Tallahassee/Panama City, or New York/Newark/Philadelphia (!?). Did that mean they actually served all those points and employed cartographic oversimplification, or were they stretching the point of serving nearby cities from one location (like Southwest and Ryan Air sometimes do)? I've always wondered that (I think I still have a copy of the 1977 timetable.)

-Rampart


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5049 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

I wonder what would have happened if Texas Air had acquired National instead of Continental. National was Texas Air's first takeover target, and PA overpaid for NA because of Lorenzo's hostile acquisition of stock. NA's "old boys" didn't want NA ending up in the hands of an industry upstart so PA was encouraged to go after it.

Texas International and National would have ended up with same fleet types as TI/CO: DC-9/727/DC-10. And the same hub in IAH.

The PA/NA merger went down in 1980. One can assume the TI/NA merger would have followed the same time frame if that merger had happened. Less than 2 years from the date of the NA/PA merger Braniff's Latin American Division was on the block, and no doubt Lorenzo would have made a play for it.
(the new CO first filed BK after BN's demise). So we would have had a "new" National with hubs at IAH and MIA.

What if that combo had not filed Chpt 11 as the TI/CO combo did and Lorenzo had been successful in acquiring TWA, which was on Lorenzo's radar screen BEFORE Eastern? Without the CO Chpt 11 and subsequent union busting, TWA's unions might have gone for the Texas Air proposal, and TWA would now be a global powerhouse with hubs at STL, MIA, IAH, JFK with LHR routes intact.

Ahh but for the fickle hand of history...



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Future Ranking Of Delta's Hubs And Focus Cities posted Tue Oct 17 2006 18:37:02 by 1337Delta764
DHL Hubs, Mini-hubs And Routes posted Sat Aug 5 2006 04:22:41 by AirAmericaC46
Hubs And City Sizes? posted Tue Jun 13 2006 07:49:33 by Fbm3rd
N. American Hubs And Focus Cities posted Thu Sep 30 2004 21:48:07 by ATLhomeCMH
Pre Deregulation Hubs posted Tue May 6 2003 01:48:38 by Zrs70
1980 DL And UA Routes For The DC8-71 posted Fri Aug 9 2002 21:07:09 by TranStar
Original PanAm Hubs And Flights posted Mon Apr 1 2002 18:43:11 by Noise
Hubs And Economic Growth posted Thu Mar 14 2002 05:25:40 by PROSA
How Big Was Eastern? Hubs? And Eastern To Slc? posted Tue Dec 11 2001 23:39:08 by Twa902fly
American Eagle Hubs And Alliances posted Tue Jul 24 2001 22:59:55 by Modesto2