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Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK  
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1772 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

A Turkish daily reports some incidences where few flight attendants refuse to serve alcohol to pax becuase it's against their religious believes.
Here's the link to the news article, unfortunately it is in turkish.

http://www.sabah.com.tr/2006/06/21/gun125.html


Earthbound misfit I
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8725 times:

Sigh..."religious believes"... Maybe they should have selected another profession. After all, they knew that alcohol is served on TK flights.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4394 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8567 times:

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 1):
Maybe they should have selected another profession.

Exactly. But people are stupid that way. I have seen vegetarian people complaining about butchering salmon in a salmon cannery.
About the TK incident, I am sure it is an isolated case. But in a week where some TK flights were cancelled due to lack of crews, and the banning of "Winnie the pooh" cartoon show on TRT (because it has the "piglet" in it), media continues with the idea: if it bleeds, it leads.

Let's turn this around a bit:
We can talk about the good old AS praying cards that come with every meal. Just imagine if TK adopted something like that.
How about "two free out of Barrow" slogan. Sorry about all these Alaskan examples, but I like them. You used to get two free drinks out of Barrow, AK and that's it for the whole flight. Barrow used to be, I don't know maybe still is, a dry town.

[Edited 2006-06-21 15:30:58]

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 4):
We can talk about the good old AS praying cards that come with every meal.

I've heard about this, and seen it on airline meals.net, but have never flown on AS.

I think it is out of place, and a practice that is in poor taste.


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7780 times:

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 9):
when it gets imposed on people

How's a prayer card imposing anything on you? Throw the damn thing out if you don't like it. And you have the option not to fly with them.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

I fly 4 legs almost everyday as a F/O for TK. I think that most people are unaware that since the very beginning there have been "management" problems....it's only now, since the expansion, that people take the time to notice.

About that F/A. There were people like this around BEFORE AKP, trust me. However no one had anything to say about them because the current leaders of the country weren't that religious, so it wouldn't be such a dynamic media outlet. The dam has burst in Turkey, anyone who has a pen is writing shit down in the media about Turkish Airlines. Many articles are lies and are wrong, and as a country that strives on "i know this because it said so in the paper" this worries me. The other day some pax at the door were like " so you don't show up for work anymore, must be nice" to myself and my crew...I was like WTF we're flying EXTRA because short staffed in my head. But because some precious uneducated idiot at a certain newspaper sits there and acts like a typical turk, we see this.

It's not my job to defend or attack the company I work for. However, when critical analysis is done, EXACT words must be chosen, and items not mixed. Inflight service is one thing, pilots are another, ontime departure is one thing, management is another. TRUST me not all those things are interlinked all the time. With all the expansion going on, I would say things aren't too bad at Turkish Airlines, it could be worse.



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 11):

It's not my job to defend or attack the company I work for. However, when critical analysis is done, EXACT words must be chosen, and items not mixed. Inflight service is one thing, pilots are another, ontime departure is one thing, management is another. TRUST me not all those things are interlinked all the time. With all the expansion going on, I would say things aren't too bad at Turkish Airlines, it could be worse.

That sounds like a very true statement - you could be Varig.


User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

Religion is the root of all evil...... It's liquor and just because the person serving it is religious it doesn't mean you should be allowed to push your religious beliefs and deny someone a drink which for some bring pure utter enjoyment.


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 16):
It's the reason half the middle east is killing themselves and us!

So you are blaming Islam for the terrorism in the Middle East? And not the fantasists taking advantage of it? There's a lot of people here who won't take too kindly to that.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 16):
No it's the truth

No, it's your skewed, misinformed opinion.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineKatekebo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 702 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Having lived for two years in Turkey, I can attest that Turkish people are very modern-thinking and far away from being religious fanatics or fundamentalist. Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA. At least in Turkey nobody questions evolution, as it is now so popular here with the bunch of idiots preaching "intelligent design", and the Turkish government has the backbone to challenge religious fundamentalism instead of promoting stupid and ineffective ideas based on religion-inspired wishfullt-thinking, like the idea of promoting sexual abstinence among young people instead of teaching them how to use condoms. I hope that the premature death of many young people in the US due to AIDS and other diseases preventable through proper sexual education will weight on the concience of the people who deny this information to their sons and daughters.

Back to the article, I think an isolated behavior of some Turkish flight attendants is not representative of the country and its rich culture as a whole.


User currently offlineTurkishAviator From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6132 times:

In past 3 decades, I did my share of flying with TK, and I have some relevant observations to share. I cannot stop noticing that the TK's quality of the service is continuously detoriating for about past 10 years. This became much more visible in past few of years. Ever since 90s ground services especially check-in counters were a mess, so that I always waited eagerly get on the airplane. This is because; back then TK's problems stopped on board. Then 2000s came along, and problems begin get on the aircraft. Do not get me wrong, nothing mechanical or safety related, just the problems related to the quality of the service.
I relate this to the young age, and lack of experience of cabin crews, and to the partisan politics of AKP (The Islamic oriented party currently in power). Recently I am noticing the increasing number of stewards. Once, I mentioned this to one of the stewards, he told me that, in-flight service is a man's job, not a woman's. I do not have a problem with man serving my peanuts, or hazelnuts in TK's case, but the conservative mentality that is trying the eliminate stewardesses, to replacing them with stewards is leading this beautiful airline to uncharted territories.
Moreover, recent flight delays due to insufficient cabin crew are also related to the issue discussed in previous paragraph. In order to shift the balance, TK is trying to hire more stewards and fewer stewardesses. However, in a country like Turkey, men do not want to work as flight attendants, nor do women with strong Islamic beliefs. Therefore, AKP cannot recruit enough flight attendants, at least in a way they want, to cope with current expansion plans that PilotAydin has mentioned before.
TK had best alcohol policies among most of the major airlines. As long as you are sober, you got what you wanted. It is still same, but with a subtle twist. All of a sudden, TK stopped carrying enough alcohol onboard, if you are sitting towards the rear all you hear is they run out of wine, beer, etc. I believe the case bahadir mentioned above is an isolated case, but with the current hiring policies, it is very much likely that it happened. Given that you have past data, it is quite easy to come up with the number of alcoholic beverages consumed in any given flight. All you have to do is to provide enough of it, and your problem is solved, that is if you want to solve this problem. Perhaps, current management in TK prefers "dry flights" but currently they do not have enough courage to enforce it, and they are playing nasty little games.
In all ranks of TK, AKP employed their supporters. Most of these people have zero experience in aviation. Some of them worked in fast ferry lines of Istanbul, and some worked at metropolitan transportation authority of Istanbul. If you are reading this, I am assuming that you know enough about aviation that, aviation requires a very different way of doing business. Volatility in the management as well as within the company was and still continuing to be the leading cause of this downturn. Everybody working at TK who is not a known supporter of AKP is afraid of being replaced by one of AKP's supporters. This fact alone is affecting the way people are doing their jobs. Given that TK had five upper management sweeps in past decade, no real business policy got a chance to hold root. Moreover, crucial decisions were influenced by political climates of the time. All these observations can be supported by the obvious errors made, in the fleet structuring, decisions to open new destinations, hiring, retiring, etc.
Most of the Turkish pilots have a military background, which does not get along with AKP; even the ones with civilian background are just too cool to be involved with AKP. Hence, the cockpit crews are the only group of people isolated from AKP partisanship. I hope that this will stay the way it is. As I always say, TK is just too important to be handled by AKP.

Sorry for this lengthy post but I believe this is the only way to analyze this issue.

[Edited 2006-06-22 09:45:36]


If it ain't Boeing I am not going
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 6132 times:

Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA.

Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city. The fact of the matter is that Turkey is trying to be Islamisized by the fanatics - something that wouldn't be tolerated a few years ago.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineAMSSpotter From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 271 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 17):
So you are blaming Islam for the terrorism in the Middle East? And not the fantasists taking advantage of it? There's a lot of people here who won't take too kindly to that.

I Think ANNOYEDFA means that a lot of conflicts are somehow caused by people bickering over religious issues. And if that is what he means, I fully agree with him. If I only look at European history, many, many people have been slaughtered "in the name of the Lord". Not that the Lord ever wanted it to be that way, should he exist, but that's how mankind has been dealing and still deals with it...


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

I am quite sure there are significant numbers of f/a's in other parts of the world who's personal faith discourages or bans the use of alcoholic beverages (Islamic, Mormon, a number of Christian groups) but agree that it is part of the job. There are many of us who may disagree with a policy or assignment at our work for personal reasons, but we have to realize it is part of our job to do what the client or customer wants within reason. TK has a conflict and too much influence by politicans in that they probably have to hire people without discrimination as to their personal choice of faith yet still has political pressure to hire those with a more conservative views.

User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

This is topic is confuted by TK.

I don't know why Bahadir is not writing this.


User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1772 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Just flew IST-ESB thýs mornýng
I wasnt paying attention to the thinks that Gokmengs mentioned. There are a lot of Ulker products being pushed and offered in catering.

Emrecan
I have been busy dealing with stupid SHGM and Tarkým for last 24 hrs. So if you want to add the article go ahead be my guest. Instead of bashing my posts you can add that press release to the chain of posts... But you know what? This incýdent however isolated it can be doesnt sound like a news item that someone pulled off their ass

PS The sandwich on TKs flýght was really tasty



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Bahadir:

I just want to ask you if it is possible something like that. I mean you are a pilot, you know aviation better than me but how you can believe this I don't understand.

Also as I've told you before, I mostly agree what you think about TK. But sometimes you are blaming me for nothing..


User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
Selam TurkishWings;
I might disagree with Bahadir on some of his posts but I never thought he "bashed" TK, but to me you take offense on every negative post on TK, I'm Turkish too, but I'm TK's one of harshest critics, that doesn't make me a basher.

Criticising is one thing and bashing is another... I think he has been bashing TK in almost every comment you write about them. Just because they did not hire him, he is pissed off with them and that's the reason why I am using the word "bashing". The airline might not be the best but they deserve a lot more credit than he gives to them.

I am quite aware of what's going on within the company. I still have friends I am in touch with, mostly F/As. Last time I flew TK a few weeks ago, the salad was sold out so they offered me sandwich and cake. Even though I was hungry, I refused to take them only because they were Ulker's products. I dislike that political party as much as many others do. Unfortunately they have a big control over TK. I will do my share when it comes to the voting stage and I am trying to influence everyone around to vote for the strongest opponent party even though I don't truly support them either...

I must admit that I am biased when it comes to TK. I am an ex-employee and I have very many great memories. My problem with Bahadir, is that I haven't heard any positive comments from him apart from his sandwich comment above which in my opinion is not really tasty  Wink



Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 20):
Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city. The fact of the matter is that Turkey is trying to be Islamisized by the fanatics - something that wouldn't be tolerated a few years ago.

And how many times have you travelled outside Istanbul and Ankara? How many of the 75 million have you seen?

Many Turkish people may be religious but we are actually very very open minded.T urkey will never ever be an Islamic country. Even though there are millions who are trying, they will never achieve this I can asssure you. This land has been home to many religions and we respect each and every of them.



Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

From what I've read, Turkey is a progressive country and historically a good friend of the United States. I am saddened that there are apparently problems with its relationship with some elements in Europe who may oppose its membership in the EU, since this opposition appears to be a significant international issue.

As for flight attendants of any country or airline who oppose aspects of their job, even if such aspects are legal, because it offends their religious beliefs, I think that there should some reasonable accommodation of those beliefs if it does not affect the company that employs them. (For this purpose, customer complaints, if significant, would count toward evaluating the effect.) In this case, if such flight attendants are such a minority that their compatriots could easily fulfill orders for alcohol without adding to their co-workers' burdens on particular flights, then that should be considered. However, it seems to me that no employee's religious beliefs should prevent a company from doing what is legal, because employees are always free to seek another source of employment if their work does not conform to their personal beliefs. And where there is doubt, then the benefit of the doubt, I think, should accrue to the employer.

[Edited 2006-06-22 19:18:58]

User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 29):
As for flight attendants who oppose aspects of their job, even if such aspects are legal, because it offends their religious beliefs, I think that there should some reasonable accommodation of those beliefs if it does not affect the company that employs them.

The problem its not legal! Those drinks are there for the to serve it to the customers, they were out of line(if the story is true)

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 27):
You have no right to call me names.. I don't know you, you don't know me. Please apologize. I am going to suggest deletion shortly after this message anyway.

I think you are taking it too personal, you bashed bahadir before, and you don't want to hear it when someone tells it to you? Its an internet forum what do you mean "you don't even know me"
I been almost everywhere in Turkey(I'm Turkish) and I'll tell you this there are more fundementalist in Istanbul, and Ankara then say a small city like Mugla or Manisa. Turkey is overall a very open minded country.

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 18):
Having lived for two years in Turkey, I can attest that Turkish people are very modern-thinking and far away from being religious fanatics or fundamentalist. Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA.

 checkmark   checkmark 
Thanks for saying what I try to to explain to people here in US all the time, just because the majority of the public is muslim it doesn't make Turkey a country like Saudi Arabia(no disrespect to Saudi Arabia, but Turkish people live a different life)

Quoting Marco (Reply 20):
Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city.



Quoting Bahadir (Reply 24):
I wasnt paying attention to the thinks that Gokmengs mentioned. There are a lot of Ulker products being pushed and offered in catering.

They do it slowly silently and next thing you know its all their products, same way in Human Resources, AKP works very intelligently and I know their ultumate goal



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Tricky issue......issues like this are hard to deal with in nations where beliefs and practices differ from one portion of the population to the other.

As for the TK flight attendants who did not wish to serve alcoholic beverages, I have a simple opinion: Its the policy of TK to serve alcohol on its flights to pax that want such drinks, thus the F/A should serve them to be in compliance with company policy....end of discussion. Employees cannot change or alter company rules due to their personal beliefs.....of course the F/A's are entitled to follow and believe in whatever religion they chose, but their beliefs should not be imposed on others while they are in service of TK. This issue was over something not very important, but we would not tolerate F/As or other employees changing other airline procedures to suit their individual beliefs? Not likely. What if this was a safety matter, for example.

If the particular F/A's so strongly object to serving alcohol in flight, they should not be flying for TK where the policy allow such service.......other career options should be offered to these employees.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 30):
The problem its not legal! Those drinks are there for the to serve it to the customers, they were out of line(if the story is true)

I'm sorry; I don't understand what you are saying. Who is "they"? Because if "they" are the flight attendants, then it would seem to me that your message indicates with agreement to me that if there cannot be reasonable accommodation, then those flight attendants should, in fact, be required to serve alcohol, regardless of their beliefs.

Please clarify.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4504 times:

I think that this issue is, indeed, very tricky.

For example, if an observant Jew desires to wear a yarmulke (head covering) while conducting his duties as a flight attendant on an international airline serving Europe, the Middle East, and Asia, should he be required to take it off while serving flights between a Middle Eastern Arab country and Europe, if there are significant customer complaints based solely on his head covering?

Under the policy I propose, I would say that the company should offer this person a position on its routes in which it is unlikely to be an issue and that does not cause significant customer complaints, or, failing that, he should be asked to take a position for which he is qualified other than a flight attendant, within the company. However, if no such positions exist, or if such an employee refuses reassignment, then I think he should be required to take off the yarmulke while on duty as a flight attendant. And there should be no right of recourse against the company if the company reasonably decides that there is no position for him that can accommodate his need to wear the yarmulke, if he insists on wearing it while on duty.

It doesn't matter, for this purpose, if it's a male flight attendant who wishes to wear a yarmulke or a female flight attendant who desires to wear a burkha, or any combination thereof.

I think that this principle should apply to employers as a reasonable compromise between work and religion.

There are, of course, limits to accommodation. If an airline from India features beautiful female flight attendants who wear saris, and if this is a beneficial feature that distinguishes it from the competition, then that's a different matter: Customer complaints based on the idea that saris are worn by flight attendants should largely be disregarded. And. ceteris paribus, if female attendants refuse to wear saris in such an environment, then there should be no reasonable accommodation of their wishes, provided that it is reasonably known that the airline has such a dress code. This, to me, is common sense.

[Edited 2006-06-22 19:45:38]

User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 15):
p.s. Do i need to do spell check? Oh look......i should be capitol.....or is it capital.......hmmmmmm. And by the way, as this is an American site...we don't spell "behaviour" with a "U".....it's "behavior."

American site? I think a little research is in order. This site first and foremost is an INTERNATIONAL SITE. And, the last time I checked the Founder and President was Swedish...and the site is managed from Sweden.

Mike


25 AerospaceFan : For what it's worth: "Capital" is spelled with the second "a", unless it refers to the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. The capital of the United
26 Gokmengs : Aerospacefan sorry for not being clear, what I'm saying is TK serves their customers alcohol and in no way any FA can refuse to do so because of thei
27 AerospaceFan : Thank you for your clarification. In that case, I think that we do agree far more than we disagree, if we disagree at all.[Edited 2006-06-22 20:00:02
28 TurkishWings : I criticized his opinions but I never called him names!! What right does that person have to call me "nasty"?
29 TK787 : I would like to add few more and try to keep this about aviation. Fundamentalism is on the rise everywhere; from Iran to the USA, from Palestine to Ve
30 Bahadir : I said it before and I will say it again, I never looked for an employment in TK. What part of that you dont understand? Also, you got your wish and
31 Emrecan : The exact answer for the topic: NONE OF THE F/A REFUSED TO SERVE ALCOHOL ON TK FLIGHT. That news were completely lie.
32 Post contains links TurkishAviator : Here are some more comumnist opinions on changing TK They seem to agree with the posts in this thread. http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/4631924.asp
33 TurkishWings : I assumed you looked for employment at TK because of this comment you made in the Turkish Aviation thread: "I have two degrees from two different uni
34 TK787 : TurkishAviator, By the way, welcome aboard. Nice to have you here. In this article, the writer mentions the Nevsehir airport. Even though it is closer
35 B707Stu : A little off topic, but not much, which is TK's best beach destination in Turkey?
36 Post contains links TurkishWings : AYT is extremely popular closely followed by DLM (Dalaman)and BJV (Bodrum). I live in Bodrum now and we have some great beaches here.... For the best
37 B707Stu : Thanks very much, they look beautiful.
38 SLCUT2777 : I know a number of Mormons who are Flight Attendants for DL, one gal is a 21 year veteran with them and Suzi says she just figures that serving alcoh
39 Post contains links and images TurkishWings : They are beautiful Although to experience the best of all, I suggest you take a "blue cruise" vacation for a week to explore the unspoilt hidden beac
40 AR385 : I think this is overall an issue of respect. I respect the religious beliefs of people. But, at the same time, they should respect mine. That is why I
41 TurkishAviator : Ulker is a well-known Turkish food company. They are known to be close to the AKP. I am not sure about now, but I believe once Tayyip Erdogan (curren
42 B52murph : Another great option is the beach by Kiz Kalesi (Castle-by-the-sea), about an hour's drive from Adana Havalanni. Inexpensive hotels, beautiful views,
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