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Big Problems With New WN Terminal At ISP  
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

http://1010wins.com/pages/48739.php

There seems to be some very serious problems with the newly constructed terminal building, mainly for Southwest Airlines, at Long Island-McArthur airport (ISP). The linked articles noted very serious hazards like water, instead of chemical fire extinguisher systems in electrical rooms, natural gas lines under and close to ventalation system ducts, and other serious design and workmanship hazards. The local governments there (Suffolk County, town), the airports managers and the state government are all very unhappy.
Of course, it will delay the use of the new/expanded terminal until these and other serious problems are worked out. One has to wonder if this will delay the expansion of WN at ISP

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
One has to wonder if this will delay the expansion of WN at ISP

Perhaps this is a wake-up call to WN that maybe going that far out and monopolizing ISP the way they've sought to do (as they have at MDW and DAL) wasn't such a great idea and trying JFK might have been a better idea?



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a wake-up call to WN that maybe going that far out and monopolizing ISP the way they've sought to do (as they have at MDW and DAL) wasn't such a great idea and trying JFK might have been a better idea?

In the same way that AA monopolizes DFW and their substandard terminals, or CO and its substandard terminals at CLE and IAH, or DL and it's substandard terminal at SLC, or UA and its substandard terminal at IAD, or NW and its substandard terminals at MSP and MEM?....

-Rampart


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
instead of chemical fire extinguisher systems in electrical rooms

There is no electrical code requirement for this. And the article states that water could cause arcing. But water would only turn on if there is fire in the room, when arcing is then not a problem.


User currently offlineThegooddoctor From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a wake-up call to WN that maybe going that far out and monopolizing ISP the way they've sought to do (as they have at MDW and DAL) wasn't such a great idea and trying JFK might have been a better idea?

LMAO!! The logic here is, well, egregiously faulty.

Southwest terminal (built by a contractor, not the airline) built with serious violations of building safety code. Therefore, this is the unavoidable consequence of their imperial quest to dominate a market. Furthermore, this tragic fate would have been avoided if Southwest had decided to locate a new terminal in Jamaica instead of Long Island...

Makes sense to me... any questions from the peanut gallery?



The GoodDoctor
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a wake-up call to WN that maybe going that far out and monopolizing ISP the way they've sought to do (as they have at MDW and DAL) wasn't such a great idea and trying JFK might have been a better idea?

Um, what? So you're saying that the contractor that built the terminal made all these things happen on purpose to punish their paying customer for expanding at an airport that no one else uses as much?

You need to quit watching Conspiracy Theory and get out more, no offense.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5139 times:

There has been several news articles in the NYC market on these serious design boo-boos with the new terminal at ISP.
ISP is operated by the government of the City of Islip, NY. They are responsible for making sure any buildings, including those under their ownership and authority to meet well established building, fire and safety codes. It seems like first of all the building's engineers didn't have much experience with airport buildings. Then the city's building enforcement staff, fire code enforcement officers and other officials didn't do their job. Part of that could be that they were not sufficiently experienced with airport buildings to properly pass their judgment on. Perhaps they should have consulted engineers with more experience with airport buildings before giving their judgment. The contractors and sub-contractors (like the fire sprinkliers contractors/installers) were also probably not sufficiently experienced in airport terminals construction to even think about the special risks of such buildings.
I would also suspect that the politicans there were under great pressure by WN and other airlines to hurry up and build this terminal, holding down costs and not have the plans sufficiently developed, gave out contracts and sub-contracts to properly experienced companies or ones with political connections or influence upon the politicans of Islip. I would suspect there will be a significant investigation of this stupidity. Problem is that the City of Islip will be out perhaps a million dollars or so to fix these screw ups.


User currently offlineNitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 470 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
NW and its substandard terminals at MSP

What would be "substandard" about the terminals at MSP?  scratchchin 
I enjoy going through there,the Worldperks clubs are fine. Plus many shops & food to help kill time.
Maybe I'm prejudice because my office was across 494 from the airport, and I could watch planes while I was "working".


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
DL and it's substandard terminal at SLC

The best stated understatement on any thread on A.net!



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
NW and its substandard terminals at MSP and MEM?....

Hate to get on your case, but didn't I just read a month ago that MSP was one of the best 20 best terminals in the world?
I do believe I did, and I think it was a post with an article attached on Airliners.net
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4860 times:
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Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):
Hate to get on your case, but didn't I just read a month ago that MSP was one of the best 20 best terminals in the world?

The best airport terminal in the world sets the standard to match/beat. Anything else is substandard. Or that'd be my guess anyhow.

And I happen to think that, for O&D traffic at least, DFW is a great airport. Easy in, easy out, hard to beat for an airport with this level of traffic, IMHO. On the other hand, what makes it a good airport for O&D makes it less convenient for connecting flights, but the new SkyTrain helps.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a wake-up call to WN that maybe going that far out and monopolizing ISP the way they've sought to do (as they have at MDW and DAL) wasn't such a great idea

What on earth would construction/fire code mistakes have to do with the viability of a market for any airline (aside from a temporary lack of availability of gate space...) Was the roof collapse at CDG a "wake-up call" to Air France that "monopolizing" CDG "the way they've sought to do...wasn't such a great idea?"

It sounds like pretty standard stuff for an occupancy inspection, though it will cost money and time to fix the flaws. The a/c intake manifolds and/or natual gas lines must be moved, the electrical room needs chemical fire suppression, and the sprinklers at the main entrance need to be hooked up from reading the article. Nothing that's not easily fixable.


User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4759 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 10):
And I happen to think that, for O&D traffic at least, DFW is a great airport. Easy in, easy out, hard to beat for an airport with this level of traffic, IMHO.

MCI is a better O&D airport.  Big grin


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4759 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):
Hate to get on your case, but didn't I just read a month ago that MSP was one of the best 20 best terminals in the world?

You're probably right, I was making an (over)extended point on how ludicrous the premise of punishing SW for dominating an airport. I recall a lot of walking and detours around frequent renovations at MSP, it's been a couple years since I transfered there. They do have nice shops and restaurants, and one of the few observation decks at a concourse. DFW likewise has/had a lot of walking and construction. God forbid any contractors cut corners, as it would punish the dominating airline.

-Rampart


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 4676 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 12):
MCI is a better O&D airport.

Same architect, wasn't it? Also did Lubbock, IIRC.

-Rampart


User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 14):
Same architect, wasn't it?

I think so... I know it was modeled after DFW.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
their substandard terminals

Have you been to DFW Terminal D, LAX Terminal 4, or JFK Terminal 9?


User currently offlineDragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
There seems to be some very serious problems with the newly constructed terminal building, mainly for Southwest Airlines, at Long Island-McArthur airport (ISP). The linked articles noted very serious hazards like water, instead of chemical fire extinguisher systems in electrical rooms, natural gas lines under and close to ventalation system ducts, and other serious design and workmanship hazards. The local governments there (Suffolk County, town), the airports managers and the state government are all very unhappy.
Of course, it will delay the use of the new/expanded terminal until these and other serious problems are worked out. One has to wonder if this will delay the expansion of WN at ISP

You forgot to mention the cracks found on the newly constructed apron.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2817351/



Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 16):
Have you been to DFW Terminal D, LAX Terminal 4, or JFK Terminal 9?

No, I haven't, I've managed to miss all of them. How are they? I know DFW-D is new. I only mentioned DFW in my earlier post because I think the walking and construction were hassles for connecting, and I specifically avoided mentioning LAX and JFK because the terminals (and dominant carriers) are so variable.

-Rampart


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
like water, instead of chemical fire extinguisher systems in electrical rooms,

Water is REQUIRED by code. In areas such as electrical rooms and data centers, it is augmented by non-water chemical systems (such as FM-200) which trigger at a lower temperature threshold (so that hopefully you can suppress the fire *without* massive damage) but you cannot build any type of building WITHOUT water suppression.

That water suppression system *should* be a "dry pipe" where water flows into the overheard pipes only once the system is triggered.

Steve


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

Wasn't there a lot of "shady" things that went on with the Mc Gowan administration to push this terminal through (including wanting to name the terminal after Pete Mc Gowan)?


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 18):
How are they? I know DFW-D is new. I only mentioned DFW in my earlier post because I think the walking and construction were hassles for connecting, and I specifically avoided mentioning LAX and JFK because the terminals (and dominant carriers) are so variable.

I'm admittedly a bit biased, as DFW is my home airport, but I personally feel that DFW's new International Terminal D is stunning. It is jaw-droppingly enormous, but still manages to feel comfortable and never overpowering, and it is very easy and convenient to navigate, whether departing or arriving from international flights. AA's LAX terminal is by far the nicest in the entire airport, and indeed one of the nicest big-station terminals of any airline I've seen. AA did a fantastic job on that terminal, and I think most people who have used it would probably tell you the same, as they would of AA's new terminal at JFK which, albeit not completed yet, is also huge and very impressive.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4434 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 2):
In the same way that AA monopolizes DFW and their substandard terminals, or CO and its substandard terminals at CLE and IAH, or DL and it's substandard terminal at SLC, or UA and its substandard terminal at IAD, or NW and its substandard terminals at MSP and MEM

Cause you know, ISP is one of the main airports in a city of 8 million people.


User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 12):
MCI is a better O&D airport. Big grin

BUR.  cloudnine 


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