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Boeing Is Not Gloating At Airbus' Problems  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

Boeing is not gloating at Airbus' problems with the new A380, Scott Strode, Boeing's vice president of 787 production, told me last week in Japan.

The company doesn't have room to make many mistakes if it's to deliver the 787 on time, he said. "I'm not ever going to be comfortable with our schedule, because it's tight."


http://heraldnet.com/stories/06/06/21/100bus_corliss001.cfm

Great column from Bryan Corliss of the Herald in Everett, WA: "It's Airbus' Turn For Scandal And Woe."

I really like this excerpt quoting Scott Hamilton:

"He's [Forgeard] invoking the Ken Lay defense," Hamilton said, comparing him to the recently convicted Enron Corp. chief who blamed his company's collapse on the misdeeds of underlings. "The other side was the Sergeant Schultz defense - 'I know nothing.' "

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

Boeing are not stupid, they had lots of their own problems only a year or two back so they know what its like. Not to mention the 787 could become a A350 if they dont keep things in order so I think its a good move.

User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

Indeed, as many have pointed out, Boeing have had its fair share of image problems...glad to see that, so far, Boeing has taken the high road and resisted with any derogatory commentary. They have plenty of risk with the 787 program as well, and throwing stones at the A380 would only exacerbate their corporate image coupled wth potential delays to the 787.


"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Nice to see such wise comments from Boeing executives.

On the other hand I really don't get why this guy Aboulafia is called an "analyst".


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 3):
On the other hand I really don't get why this guy Aboulafia is called an "analyst".

Because he makes a lot more money then most of us here on a.net for his opinions. Whether or not some here agree with him is a completely different question...



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 4):
Because he makes a lot more money then most of us here on a.net for his opinions. Whether or not some here agree with him is a completely different question...

That's an interesting definition. Someone who makes a lot of money with his opinions is an analyst? Are you sure about that?


User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6674 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
Boeing are not stupid, they had lots of their own problems only a year or two back so they know what its like

This is the kind of comment on this board that really puzzles me.

Boeing is still up to their eyeballs with "issues":

1) John McCain is up their arse big time over the tanker deal right now
2) The Delta EELV is not performing as well as the Atlas
3) The proposed Lockheed/Boeing joint EELV cooperation is not going well
4) Their military programs are kinda dwindling, even with the MD acquisition
5) Their missile defense system is a "challenge"

That is just five things they are worried about, there are many many more, so just consider them too busy to gloat, because they have enough problems to keep them occupied.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 5):
That's an interesting definition. Someone who makes a lot of money with his opinions is an analyst? Are you sure about that?

That's how the guy makes his living... Forgive me, but please show me where I've written that I agree that he is in fact an analyst. I work with "analysts" all the time that couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag. But someone thinks they deserve the big bucks.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 4):
Because he makes a lot more money then most of us here on a.net for his opinions. Whether or not some here agree with him is a completely different question...

Probably because he's a blow hard...and what does the general public respond to? Outrageous and controversial commentary (and I mean just commentary) that is designed to turn heads, and not necessarily deal with facts. Here in the States, what do you think the most widely circulated periodical is? Sadly, it's the Enquirer, and so what does that say about Americans and what they find interesting?

The guy is heard because he has an audience, not meaningful words.

In the end, Boeing and Airbus will be successful based on filling market needs, not on what we all say, "we" including Aboulafia.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Boeing Is Not Gloating At Airbus' Problems

Why would Boeing gloat. There's a word for it:

Hubris or hybris; according to its modern usage, is exaggerated pride or self-confidence, often resulting in fatal retribution.


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 8):
Sadly, it's the Enquirer, and so what does that say about Americans and what they find interesting?

My point exactly. Thank you!! I think it's fair to say that sometimes he's right other times he isn't. We all go to bed every night, sleeping just fine regardless whether he is or isn't correct.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6561 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 7):
Forgive me, but please show me where I've written that I agree that he is in fact an analyst.

I said:

Quoting GBan (Reply 3):
I really don't get why this guy Aboulafia is called an "analyst"

Your reply:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 4):
Because he makes a lot more money then most of us here on a.net for his opinions.

My conclusion was that you agree that he in fact is an analyst. When looking closer I see that you were giving the reason why he is called an analyst. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my side.


User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6536 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):
2) The Delta EELV is not performing as well as the Atlas
3) The proposed Lockheed/Boeing joint EELV cooperation is not going well
4) Their military programs are kinda dwindling, even with the MD acquisition
5) Their missile defense system is a "challenge"

And these are all part of the Boeing Commercial Aircraft company??? .... NOT
I have seen many posts on this and other sites by the Airbus apologists, sorry... supporters, that make the claim that the Airbus/EADS missteps in the military business are not related to the airliner business.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2830 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6493 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):

Boeing is still up to their eyeballs with "issues":

1) John McCain is up their arse big time over the tanker deal right now
2) The Delta EELV is not performing as well as the Atlas
3) The proposed Lockheed/Boeing joint EELV cooperation is not going well
4) Their military programs are kinda dwindling, even with the MD acquisition
5) Their missile defense system is a "challenge"

1) The tanker deal is pretty much payed out, and Boeing has paid a huge fine to resolve everything.
2) The Delta EELV is going away in favor of Atlas.
3) The joint EELV just got greenlit.
4) Everyone's defense revenue is going to be down, because millitary exependures are going down.
5) One system of themissle defense system just went live.


User currently offlineTugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5798 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6493 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 1):
t
Boeing are not stupid, they had lots of their own problems only a year or two back so they know what its like. Not to mention the 787 could become a A350 if they dont keep things in order so I think its a good move.



Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):
Boeing is still up to their eyeballs with "issues"

I agree completely. Many people here seem to think that Boeing is on Easy Street now with all the orders they have on the books but that is definitely NOT the case. Its crunch time right now, they have to prove to the market that they are an improved company after their "foot shooting" of the very recent past.

Also in comment to everyone who thinks that the government helps Boeing, I can guarantee you that Lockheed Martin, Northrop-Grumman, Rockwell, BAE, Raytheon, and a number of others would scream bloody murder if anything like that happened. Just look at how vocal Ford and GM were with the Chrysler "loans" and they don't have near the lobbying clout of the "military industrial complex". These companies would happily just come in and feed off the carcass if Boeing failed.

Tug



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 11):
My conclusion was that you agree that he in fact is an analyst. When looking closer I see that you were giving the reason why he is called an analyst. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my side.

No need to apologise my friend. But thank you anyway.



336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6285 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 13):
1) The tanker deal is pretty much payed out, and Boeing has paid a huge fine to resolve everything.
2) The Delta EELV is going away in favor of Atlas.
3) The joint EELV just got greenlit.
4) Everyone's defense revenue is going to be down, because millitary exependures are going down.
5) One system of themissle defense system just went live.

Dude, I like Boeing as much as anyone, but come on!

The tanker deal is resolved? No, it has not been resolved, and Boeing will suffer in DC for years because of it.

Lockheed is not shrinking, they are at the beginning of the biggest fighter program ever, and they are selling off non core divisions to concentrate on their core business. They are the #1 military contractor and will remain so.

Source on the Delta "going away"? Where is it going?, no decision has been made to go one way or the other, and there will be none until at least 2010. In fact, NASA may use the Delta engine for their programs if Boeing gets their act together. It was grounded, not cancelled.

The joint Lockheed/Boeing ULA is for assembly and launch efforts, not the rockets themselves, and faces much criticism, and lawsuits, because the whole point was competition, not collusion in the EELV program. As of June 12 it has not been given the go ahead. If it does not get the go ahead, Boeing will be sued by Lockheed for corporate spying and things will get real ugly.

I wish people would stop circulating this ridiculous rumor. the entire purpose of the merger is maintain two separate EELVs that can meet varying govt needs as well as provide back-up for one another.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/640/1

And finally, find one source that portrays the missile defense systems as performing as required.

Boeing has a lot of problems on their plate, and denying it really doesn't accomplish anything.

Add to that the 787 program, the 737RS, and the uncertainty of Y3 and you have enough to worry about without concerning yourself with problems over at Airbus.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineLeigh pilgrim From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

Ive just seen this on UK BBC news (its also now on BBC 24),

I have to say, although Im a big Boeing fan, I do feel for Airbus at the moment, there going through some tough times, however, you must never give up, theres always going to be problems to reslove, wait till this ugly bird goes commercial, the orders will pick up, and the wine will be served! and it will be brilliant.

I would be very suprised if the 787 with its all new technology went smoothly


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2830 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

Have you been reading the news lately?

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
The tanker deal is resolved? No, it has not been resolved, and Boeing will suffer in DC for years because of it.

From http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...Settlement+tanker&btnG=Search+News

Boeing has paid $615 million (largest government settlement ever) to atone for the tanker scandal and Delta problems. That closed down the investigations. The executives that were responsible for it are gone. Frankly, if the otnly other competition on a project is Airbus, it won't be a issue. If it is Lockheed, Lockheed will win, but that's nothing new either. (If only we could get Lockheed back building commercial planes).

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
Source on the Delta "going away"? Where is it going?, no decision has been made to go one way or the other, and there will be none until at least 2010. In fact, NASA may use the Delta engine for their programs if Boeing gets their act together. It was grounded, not cancelled.

There was a report in the Rocky Mountain News (a large part of the ULA is based in Colorado) that the write off schedule for the Delta finishes up in a decade, when the pentagon mandate for 2 EELV vehicles goes away.

As far as the "delta engine" I assume that you are refering to the RS-68. I don't think the final verdict is in there versus the SSME yet. If you are refering to the J-2X which is a saturn derevitive and actually made by P&W, not Boeing. The main lift will continue to be from the SSME. Regardless, the RS-68 is not a huge argument for the Delta sticking around.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
As of June 12 it has not been given the go ahead. If it does not get the go ahead, Boeing will be sued by Lockheed for corporate spying and things will get real ugly.

As of June 19th, it has been given the draft go ahead:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...210958.story?coll=chi-business-hed
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_4786948,00.html
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...4BC9-A982-CE7F72ABE017%7D&keyword=
http://today.reuters.com/stocks/Quot..._0_ARMS-BOEING-LOCKHEED.XML&rpc=66

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):

The joint Lockheed/Boeing ULA is for assembly and launch efforts, not the rockets themselves, and faces much criticism, and lawsuits, because the whole point was competition, not collusion in the EELV program. As of June 12 it has not been given the go ahead. If it does not get the go ahead, Boeing will be sued by Lockheed for corporate spying and things will get real ugly.

I wish people would stop circulating this ridiculous rumor. the entire purpose of the merger is maintain two separate EELVs that can meet varying govt needs as well as provide back-up for one another.

Which is why engine construction is moving from Aurora Colorado to Alabama to share construction fascilities and experts?

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
And finally, find one source that portrays the missile defense systems as performing as required.

The seaborn aegis system has done very well. In fact the system is deployed on three destroyers now, and are averaging 6/7 shootdowns during test flights. Boeing is not the prime on this contract, and even if it was, every thing that you mention above is over on the other side of the house.

The land based system is a bit behind that, but they are trying to attack missles in a more difficult stage of flight. Hopefully neither system get it's start in a baptism of fire.

Bottom line is still that Boeing has issues to work on as does Airbus. Which vendor has bigger issues is reflected in the stock valuation.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

-- Quote from article...

"This is the high price of easy money." Aboulafia said.

Airbus should emerge from this flap a stronger company, he said. Within Airbus, "there are the party hacks and there are the commercially savvy officials, Aboulafia said. "This will kill the party that thought this project was a good idea."

--

I thought his analysis was right on. Of course, this analysis is based on hindsight. But nevertheless, its so true...

Airbus made some mistakes likes all corporations do time to time... and analyst critiques are a lot of times based after the fact.

I think Airbus will learn from this and be a stronger company so Boeing is right not to gloat.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5225 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5588 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 19):
so Boeing is right not to gloat.

No doubt Boeing should be saying, there but by the grace of God go I (we) !


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5559 times:

It is bad business to kick your competitor publicly when they are down.

Instead, do your business as usual and reaffirm your commitments and customers will respond with trust and respect for your way of doing business.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 6):
That is just five things they are worried about, there are many many more, so just consider them too busy to gloat, because they have enough problems to keep them occupied.

All valid, none have much to do with BCA.

Even the tanker deal is not BCA. Should the tanker ever come to fruition, one would assume that a new assembly point somewhere in Kansas or elsewhere would be established for the project, away from BCA. There is no room for the tanker program in the facilities that will build 777, 787 and 747s in the quantities they have backlogged at the moment.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5559 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Boeing is not gloating at Airbus' problems with the new A380, Scott Strode, Boeing's vice president of 787 production, told me last week in Japan.

Best news I have heard all week. a calm sensible response to the problems of the past 10 days. Pity they are from the opposition but welcome all the same

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 19):


I thought his analysis was right on. Of course, this analysis is based on hindsight. But nevertheless, its so true...

Airbus made some mistakes likes all corporations do time to time... and analyst critiques are a lot of times based after the fact.

I think Airbus will learn from this and be a stronger company so Boeing is right not to gloat.

hear! hear! As they cheer in Westminster


User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5494 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 3):
On the other hand I really don't get why this guy Aboulafia is called an "analyst".

Because apparently he is. So are other aviation/aerospace analysts from Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, etc. and all their views on A380 are strikingly similar.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
It is bad business to kick your competitor publicly when they are down.

Yes it is but not practiced by John Leahy.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5463 times:

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 23):
Yes it is but not practiced by John Leahy.

And look what's happening at Airbus now...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 CWFan : Looks like Boeing is keeping their head down and hustling pretty hard for orders around the globe. Every week it seems they are posting decent sales f
26 Ikramerica : They are AHEAD of last year. At this time last year, they had booked 393 orders. They got 48 orders on June 30 last year to bring it to 441. They are
27 EbbUK : You are absolutely right, they are powering ahead. It makes sense for B to start the second production line, there's no stopping those B boys and gir
28 CWFan : One surprise, to me atleast, is this year's relative success of 737 sales vs. 320 sales. Where the heck are those 320 sales? Both have very similar ec
29 LTBEWR : As noted, Boeing has had there problems like the Tanker scandal, the CEO and the lady scandal and so on. The no longer make the 757, and the 767 produ
30 Post contains images Ikramerica : They will all be confirmed on January 15th, 2007...
31 Leskova : Sometimes I wish that people on these boards were as wise some people at Boeing obviously are... the amount of "mine's better than yours, because your
32 Pwh : Quoting Ikramerica: "They will all be confirmed on January 15th, 2007... " I might have missed something here, could you ellaborate? Cheers,
33 UAL777UK : you can be sure that if Boeing did gloat it would come back and bite them in the arse BIG TIME........problems with the 787, 747-8i lines etc!!# They
34 Congaboy : Backlogs on the A320?
35 Atmx2000 : He's tweaking Airbus for the getting lots of A320 orders that showed up on the final 2005 orders list announced in January of this year, enough order
36 Saturn5 : You may be right !!!!
37 Alessandro : Well, 5 A380ies are flying, none B748 nor B787 are flying. I think Boeing lost valuable time when they didn´t go ahead with the B748 earlier.
38 Saturn5 : I don't think so. They were busy upgrading their 777s. You can only build so many new things at a time. Plus their order books look pretty nice - no
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