B777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 749 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
The cockpit of an incoming UAL flight was beamed with a laser light during landing at IAD. The FBI is currently investigating. This is a very scary thought and much of a security concern for any airports. What is a pilot to do? Some big airports like IAD are surrounded by trees, etc. and make it very easy for potential wrong-doers to strike. Any thoughts? new information? (I heard this on News 4 channel and can't seem to find a link).
HAMAD From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2000, 1157 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3331 times:
the airport is surrounded by trees, but the runways are in an area where its hard to spot, i wonder how did they get away by this. could it be easy for them to get it from the space musuem observation deck?
CV990A From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3180 times:
Quoting HAMAD (Reply 1): could it be easy for them to get it from the space musuem observation deck?
I was thinking the parking lot of the museum. I presume we don't know what runway he was landing on. There are several strip malls to the south of IAD close in to the runways where someone could have been.
Falcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2972 times:
Even if they find the culprit, he (or she) will probably just get a slap on the wrist. A corporate crew landing at Teterboro had a similar occurrence last year, FBI tracked him down, and when all was said and done, he tried to pin it on one of his kids. Guilty but no jail time. Nice.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
I don't think anyone would purposely try and blind a pilot while he's flying the plane. It was probably some teenager playing around in the parking lot. Teenagers can be stupid sometimes. I can tell because I am a teenager. Whoever they were, they probably did not know what danger they were putting the plane in. Stupid things to do that result from not thinking things through. Classic situation.
This incident turned out to be okay. With such close proximty to the ground, however, I don't think the copilot's reaction time would be fast enough to realize something was wrong and take control if the situation did go worse.
B777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 749 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2618 times:
Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 4): Whoever they were, they probably did not know what danger they were putting the plane in.
I don't think a laser beam has any chance of "blinding" a pilot from landing properly. Runway lights are far brighter than a laser light. Authorities are rather afraid that it was a possible terrorist/criminal aiming some sort of ammunition at a plane with the hope of bringing it down.
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9242 posts, RR: 42 Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2486 times:
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5): I don't think a laser beam has any chance of "blinding" a pilot from landing properly. Runway lights are far brighter than a laser light
It's the nature of laser light (let's just say "concentrated", to avoid going into details) and the sensitivity of the retina that makes it dangerous to the eyes. I'm not sure if those laser pointers have some kind of diffuser, though that might not help in their pointing role. Even so, bus drivers and even pilots have been temporarily blinded by these devices.
Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 4): I don't think anyone would purposely try and blind a pilot while he's flying the plane
I can quite believe some people would think it "funny" or "interesting" to try it.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2458 times:
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5): don't think a laser beam has any chance of "blinding" a pilot from landing properly. Runway lights are far brighter than a laser light. Authorities are rather afraid that it was a possible terrorist/criminal aiming some sort of ammunition at a plane with the hope of bringing it down.
Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 6): I don't think that's true. If a laser was shined in your eye -even from over a 1000 feet away- it could have some damaging effects.
Quoting David L (Reply 7): It's the nature of laser light (let's just say "concentrated", to avoid going into details) and the sensitivity of the retina that makes it dangerous to the eyes. I'm not sure if those laser pointers have some kind of diffuser, though that might not help in their pointing role. Even so, bus drivers and even pilots have been temporarily blinded by these devices.
It all depends on the type of laser. A laser pointer or other such device (like a low power HeNe laser) has practically no chance of blinding a pilot, even temporarily and even if shined from inside the cockpit. The event in NJ was a green argon laser with mich higher power, much like the lasers used in laser light shows.
There are no credible details available (not even the "color") on the laser used in this incident, so any speculation as to the level of hazard is simply speculation by the uninformed.
B777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 749 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 6): I don't think that's true. If a laser was shined in your eye -even from over a 1000 feet away- it could have some damaging effects.
I agree....but one must have a lot of precision to actually target the exact position of the pilot's eye. And like David L hinted, it does take a special type of laser to establish damage. Again, I think it's not what people are afraid of, it's more the possibility of someone aiming at the plane to fire at it.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 9): I agree....but one must have a lot of precision to actually target the exact position of the pilot's eye. And like David L hinted, it does take a special type of laser to establish damage. Again, I think it's not what people are afraid of, it's more the possibility of someone aiming at the plane to fire at it.
Sorry folks, but this makes no sense. I plane is very big. It has lights. From far away (1000M+) a laser pointer would be worthless as a targeting device. A laser rangefinder would work from 1+ KM away and could thoretically be helpful in targeting, but rangefinders are infrared and as such are not visible and the pilot would never have noticed.
Any man portable missle (the most likely terrorist weapon to be used from the ground to bring down a commercial airliner) would be a heat seeker and have no need for a pointing laser. A pointing laser would also be worthless in use with an RPG as the RPG would need to have the azimuth super-elevated in order to have even a slim chance of hitting a moving aircraft.
The worry is that the pilots would be blinded by a laser. A laser pointer or HeNe would be of no real worry because of their low power levels (you would have to stare into the laser on purpose for an extended period, about the same hazard as staring into the sun, you can't do it because it becomes painful).
This sounds to me like some moron like the NJ idiot bought a used Argon laser off e-bay, but we do not have any facts reported to confirm this.
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5):
I don't think a laser beam has any chance of "blinding" a pilot from landing properly. Runway lights are far brighter than a laser light. Authorities are rather afraid that it was a possible terrorist/criminal aiming some sort of ammunition at a plane with the hope of bringing it down.
The intensity of runway lights isn't completely concentrated on the pilot's eye.
Airfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2333 times:
I read somewhere that the Soviats used to aim lasers at our recon pilots. One guy even receved eye damage. I don't remember where I read it though. anyone have more info?
Socalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2168 times:
This is not just a point of eye damange, it's mostly a point of distraction. A laser beam isn't going to be visible to a flightcrew, only the dot that is flashing around not only the eyes but Heads up display equipment or all over the cockpit, NOT what any pilot needs while on final approach. Any other kind of ground based light flashing around produces a visible SOURCE and your brain processes the light and the source and has little effect. With laser, there would be no visible source or beam and the effect is extremely distracting not to mention dangerous if it actually bounces off your retina.
Turnit56N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1978 times:
It has been determined that laser pointers can definitely damage a pilot's vision while in flight. However, the chances of it posing a serious damage to a commercial airliner are slim. While it is possible, in order for a laser pointer pose a serious risk to the flight the laser pointer would have to be extremely strong, the aircraft would have to be at a relatively low altitude, and both pilots would have to be affected. The safety of the aircraft was not compromised in the confirmed case of a Delta pilot being injured by a laser pointer because the laser was not strong enough to cause an immediately noticable injury. It wasn't until after the flight that the pilot noticed the burning sensation in his eye. The chances of both pilots being hit by a laser pointer strong enough to cause immediate and severe vision loss are pretty remote....but the danger does exist. Delta Pilot Injured by Laser
A much more serious danger is the use of laser pointers in lower and slower flying single pilot aircraft. Helicopters in particular are vulnerable. They fly low enough and slow enough that a laser can much more easily be aimed at a helicopter pilot and be strong enough over the shorter distance to cause significant damage. There have been several cases of police helicopter pilots being injured by lasers.
Here's CAMI's take on the issue, including some specific events of lasers being directed at pilots. FAA Study.
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