PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2041 times:
OK - assuming the proposed agreement gets approved by Congress allowing immediate through ticketing to Love Field - what markets will benefit from it? What cities get new nonstops simply to allow 1 stop/connections to DAL on WN? What cities become focus points to get passengers to/from DAL?
Eastern markets without nonstops to 'perimeter States':
2 markets that can get nonstops now: JAN & BHM. I've heard these don't have the nonstops simply because there isn't enough traffic coming into these markets to justify nonstops to DAL. Maybe both get another frequency or 2 to BWI or new nonstops to PHL and on to DAL??
It would seem to me that STL, MCI, and ABQ would be the most logical places to funnel passengers to DAL - which markets do you think get linked up?
I'd say PHL/PIT/RDU/BDL/PVD - STL have the best chance.
Out west I'm not so sure which of those markets I listed above could support enough traffic to ABQ, OKC, TUL, or ELP and on to DAL to warrent the service. It would seem the 3 LA basin airports and SJC could support ABQ nonstops with contining service to DAL.
After looking at this, I'd say STL and ABQ could greatly benefit from the through ticketing agreement. LIT geographically could come into play too - just not sure what Eastern markets could support LIT-DAL from that end.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
KarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2925 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
I think you can add DTW. Once I flew Southwest to I think it was STL then to Oklahoma. I had to deplane pick up my luggage and recheck-in to another flight to DAL.
I have never understood the logic behind this procedure except to discourage travelers from flying Southwest under Wright.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1): The Boyd Group analyzed those very questions and came up with the above possible scenarios
well yes, in part. He lists the EXISTING one-stop markets the new agreeement will create - I'm looking for opinions on what NEW markets WN might open up to get people to DAL that currently aren't on the Boyd list...
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1979 times:
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1951 times:
I would imagine most of the routes in the southeast and east to be flown to houston.
Flights in the west through MCI and or ABQ.
I dont see STL benefiting much except the north, MDW, DTW, maybe IND could be restarted?
I bet we will see a lot of MDW/2 ie BWI-MDW connect, then fly MDW-STL-DAL stopping in STL. That is still allowable.
So the routes are already out there, its just now making a new schedule based on those routes.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Bnatraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 380 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1934 times:
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 7): bet we will see a lot of MDW/2 ie BWI-MDW connect, then fly MDW-STL-DAL stopping in STL. That is still allowable.
So the routes are already out there, its just now making a new schedule based on those routes.
I was thinking of how WN might want to elimiate the need to stop twice. The entire Northeast has no 1 stop option to DAL right now and STL is really the largest/best option to open up sustainable (meaning enough local traffic plus continueing DAL traffic) routes. I agree with HOU and MSY being the key stopping points from Florida. RSW and PBI are the only 2 Florida airports without a 1 stop link to DAL, so I'd say those 2 might get HOU service.
BOI and GEG are really the only markets that would best work with MCI. ABQ seems the best fit for the western markets, but thats an area of the country I'm least familiar so I thought there might be some other hidden markets that might work better, like RNO-AMA-DAL or something...
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1906 times:
Even more of a longshot! MAYBE if the flight originated in SEA.
One concern I have is what happens in 8 years when Wright disappears (if this compromise gets passed in Congress) and the WA cities suddenly lose thier status as "gateways" to DAL? With the gate limitations on WN at DAL would they continue to operate DAL-AMA 4 times a day (or whatever it is) with beyond service or would DAL-AMA disappear altogether so WN can operate 4 DAL-LAX flights instead? I would love to see the schedule change on "D-Day" when the WA goes away and WN suddenly doesn't need to stop in AMA, LBB, LIT etc... Certainly some current WA markets are going to see some cutbacks as WN can overfly them direct to the larger markets they covet.
I just wonder how deep those cuts are going to be.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3374 posts, RR: 18 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1886 times:
they will still have 18 gates - which theoretically can handle 180-200 departures which has to be close to double what they have in DAL now (it's around 100, isn't it?).
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1863 times:
Quoting PVD757 (Reply 12): they will still have 18 gates - which theoretically can handle 180-200 departures which has to be close to double what they have in DAL now (it's around 100, isn't it?).
They use 14, will have 16 if the compromise is decided.
10 flights per gate at max 160 flights They currently only operate 121 DD give or take.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1861 times:
16 IIRC. So 160-180 tops. That's it. FOREVER. So when they top out at DAL, and they need to add frequency, something has to give. My gut feeling is that intra-Texas to smaller stations like AMA, LBB and MFE will be the first to feel the effect.
But, if access to DAL is cut back at these stations, will other options open up? Say AMA-AUS-BWI or SAT-AMA-OAK? WN likes to maintain a 10 flight a day minimum at stations, if AMA, LBB and MFE flight frequency can't be diverted elsewhere in the WN system, will they join the list of former WN stations like BPT, DET and SFO? (I know there were different reasons for abandoning each of these stations, but they are indeed FORMER WN stations)>
TxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 48 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1794 times:
This is something I played around with several days ago:
Question - would WN reduce the TX intrastate in favor of, say, DAL-LAX nonstops?
Answer - Southwest is going to do what makes them money. The Texas intrastate routes (incl TUL, OKC, ABQ, MSY, LIT) have a slightly lower (but still decent) load factors owing to high frequency. The yields are exceptional. I expect Southwest will figure out a way to squeeze more flights per gate rather than give up markets where they enjoy a 30 cent yield.
AMA, LBB, and MAF (somebody was using MFE.....Southwest doesn't serve McAllen, and Midland/Odessa is MAF) might even pick up a daily trip to Phoenix. Right now they have a Las Vegas nonstop. Throw in a DAL-LBB (or MAF/AMA)-PHX trip and you have given those cities excellent service to the west coast while giving Dallas Love Field passengers a nice, not too far out of the way Phoenix 1 stop.
Jackson and Birmingham will both pick up Dallas nonstops, IMHO, and those will continue on to Florida (in the case of JAN) and/or BWI. I could see the possibility of a BHM-RDU leg tossed in there even though it is not currently served. (same with LIT-BNA, OKC-DEN, or TUL-DEN)
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
somebody was using MFE.....Southwest doesn't serve McAllen, and Midland/Odessa is MAF
That somebody was me and I ALWAYS get those two mixed up. Airport code dyslexia...I do the same thing with MTY and MRY and which one is Monterrey vs. Monterey.
Oh well, we're all human...and it's too late to edit my post, so all apologies.
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1785 times:
Quoting Garri767 (Reply 15): I cant contribute much to this thread besides the fact that LAS-AMA-DAL is already in effect lol.
Not really. Try booking it, won't let you.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1761 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 14): My gut feeling is that intra-Texas to smaller stations like AMA, LBB and MFE will be the first to feel the effect.
You mean MAF since WN doesn't serve MFE (they go to HRL instead).
What I see as being likely when through-ticketing restrictions are dropped is the scheduling of a bunch of one-stops from DAL to the large stations outside the perimeter. I'd bet on virtually every DAL-STL flight being combined with STL-MDW for one-stop-no-change-of-aircraft service -- thus opening up a slew of possibilities at MDW with only two stops. I can see LBB, OKC, or AMA getting a flight or two to DEN routed as DEN-LBB/OKC/AMA-DAL. As MSY continues to recover, it becomes a perfect connecting/stopping point to all of WN's Florida cities. Existing non-stop service from ABQ to LAS, PHX, LAX, and OAK is easily combined with tags to DAL. DAL-LIT-BNA would also be a good route.
Garri767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1728 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 18): Not really. Try booking it, won't let you.
i was sittting next to someone saying they lived in dallas, and i sat next to them LAS-AMA and he said his next flight was nonstop to DAL. he must have booked it DAL-AMA-DAL and also booked AMA-LAS-AMA
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1648 times:
Quoting Garri767 (Reply 20):
i was sittting next to someone saying they lived in dallas, and i sat next to them LAS-AMA and he said his next flight was nonstop to DAL. he must have booked it DAL-AMA-DAL and also booked AMA-LAS-AMA
Ya that had to be what he did. It is the only way to fly WN into DAL out of the W.A booking two tickets.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Lincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1627 times:
One question about the proposed gate limitation... anything stopping them from painting extra lines on the ramp and using stairs? (I.e. gate 31 or whatever would be used as 31A/B/C... kinda like what regional airlines do at some airports?
After all, it would still physically be one gate, but would allow for higher utilization of that gate.
Or is it a hairbrained idea from an armchair airport manager?
Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1607 times:
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
25 PVD757: this is the type of stuff I'm interested in hearing about. The DEN-OKC-DAL types - great ideas. O like the RDU-BHM-DAL idea as well. I still think BD
26 BHMNONREV: And with five gates sitting empty at the East Terminal WN has a lot of options to play with...
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