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Co 787 Seating  
User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4586 times:

I have been looking on the net for 787 seating charts. I have not had any luck finding any. I want to see the lay out for the 787, and try to guess how many seats cal will have on there's. My guess for first class is 35 seats but i have no clue what to guess for coach.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

Nothing definitive yet as to the seat layout. We will know more probably next year summer or late.

Enquire with the training department, you'll get no where with base management.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

My guess/suggestion is to use the 764 chart and take it from there.....the big question is whether CO's 787s will have 8 or 9 abreast seating in economy. When CO first ordered the 787, we all assumed that it would be 8 abreast (2-4-2) with the 9 abreast (3-3-3) seating reserved for carriers that fly with higher density layouts, but when the entire A350 drama was playing itself out, and with all of the discussion of how the 787 could "comfortably" seat 9 accross while the A350 could not......it made me (and many others) wonder exactly what CO has in mind for its 787s.

Due to the wider fuselage, I think that BizFirst will be 6 abreast (2-2-2) with lie-flat sleeper seats (I am guessing here) so pitch will increase from 55" to atleast 62"......meaning that the 787s will not have my favorite seats..the individual D seat that is on the 767s.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4491 times:

Wouldn't 9 abreast in a 787 push it closer to the 777 in terms of capacity--at least in CO config? I would think they would keep it at 8 abreast--but its pretty early to tell.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Due to the wider fuselage, I think that BizFirst will be 6 abreast (2-2-2) with lie-flat sleeper seats (I am guessing here) so pitch will increase from 55" to atleast 62"......meaning that the 787s will not have my favorite seats..the individual D seat that is on the 767s.

Dutchjet, I too see lie-flat sleepers as well as AVOD for all seats (coach too). I like the D seat too. You get served from both sides and no one to bother you.

One side note, our 757s will be getting VOD in coach. I just read a memo saying that they are going to upgrade the entertainment system starting next year.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 4):

Dutchjet, I too see lie-flat sleepers as well as AVOD for all seats (coach too). I like the D seat too. You get served from both sides and no one to bother you.

One side note, our 757s will be getting VOD in coach. I just read a memo saying that they are going to upgrade the entertainment system starting next year.

D is the best - I call in the anti-social seat.

The news about AVOD in Y on the 757s is just great - with the 752s flying so many longer routes, it did need an upgrade in the IFE department. There will be four 752 upgrade programs going on: BF to AVOD, Y to AVOD, Winglets, and the conversion of remaining domestic F 752s to BF config. Busy times. It will be interesting to hear when all 41 752s have all four of the upgrades done.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

That will make the 757 a pleasure to fly in Y.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

I was told that if avod was put into coach, it would weigh to much and hit us hard with distance the plane could fly.

User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

There was a plan to retrofit the 752s with new seats similar to the 757-300s floating around about a year ago that never fully materialized. I would venture to say that this latest retrofit would include new seats designed to negate any weight penalties new IFE equipment would bring. Even with new seats, the next-generation IFE systems are far more adaptable to narrowbody applications (e.g., no armrest-mounted PCU, hard drive instead of tape decks use less space/weight, etc.) and this should make our transatlantic 757 product a very competitive option.

User currently offlineDrnate00 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

I recently flew on a CO 752 from EWR to DUB and it had the new 757-300 seats, which were much more spacious but not enough cushioning. And no AVOD yet.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

Quoting Drnate00 (Reply 9):
I recently flew on a CO 752 from EWR to DUB and it had the new 757-300 seats, which were much more spacious but not enough cushioning. And no AVOD yet.

First, if you had the new seats, you were in coach, thus certainly no AVOD....no CO 752 has PTVs or AVOD in Y class yet.....from the info provided above, maybe next year, there has been no official announcement yet.

And, are you sure that your 752 had "753 style" seats......I was not aware that any 752s had been updated and I thought the program was scrapped. I heard that CO would wait until a decision was made on AVOD and PTVs for Y and do both projects together....I also heard that with the newer seats, pitch increases on the 752 to almost 32" in coach (like the 753 and 767s).

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 7):
I was told that if avod was put into coach, it would weigh to much and hit us hard with distance the plane could fly.

I heard this too, but its more complicated than that.....the new AVOD IFE system actually weighs less and takes up far less room that the old system, even if the system is to be extended to the Y cabin, the weights will be OK. But there is another issue, with the new AVOD system, CO was able to remove the video cabin by door 2L and put back 3 coach seats (thus AVOD equipped 752s have 159 coach seats, just like the old domestic layout) and 3 more pax with luggage for 3 more people adds weight. Its only an issue where the 752 is hitting its operational limit.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't 9 abreast in a 787 push it closer to the 777 in terms of capacity--at least in CO config? I would think they would keep it at 8 abreast--but its pretty early to tell.

While I can see CO putting 9Y and matching seat width on the 757 and 737 product for more pax, I can also see them doing 8Y and using these jets on the longest routes. The 787 has a range range, as it were, where at 9Y it has less range than at 8Y. Doing 6J/8Y would allow CO to use the jet with plenty of cargo on routes like EWR-HKG and other very long routes the 777 is currently limited on. I could see 4 of the 788s being put on this route, upping frequency 2 twice a day, as well as 2 more going on IAH-HKG, and other routes like IAH-GUM, IAH-SYD while far fetched, are doable in the lower density config, and offer lucrative cargo potential...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):

While I can see CO putting 9Y and matching seat width on the 757 and 737 product for more pax, I can also see them doing 8Y and using these jets on the longest routes. The 787 has a range range, as it were, where at 9Y it has less range than at 8Y. Doing 6J/8Y would allow CO to use the jet with plenty of cargo on routes like EWR-HKG and other very long routes the 777 is currently limited on. I could see 4 of the 788s being put on this route, upping frequency 2 twice a day, as well as 2 more going on IAH-HKG, and other routes like IAH-GUM, IAH-SYD while far fetched, are doable in the lower density config, and offer lucrative cargo potential...

Interesting point - I had not thought of that. No one yet knows what missions CO will use the 787 on....many have assumed that the 787 will be used to continue CO's transatlantic expansion as CO will finally not be limited to the 757 for new routes. New transatlantic routes from IAH and EWR are planned, we know that, but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

On the other hand, will the exact missions affect COs 8 vs 9 abreast in economy decision - dont know......I am very much hoping for 8 abreast in coach in keeping with CO's image as a comfortable full service carrier.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

Actually that is a VERY interesting proposition. I am certainly not alone in assuming that most, if not all, trans-Pac expansion would be w/ the 777. I guess it all depends on what, if any, performance differences there will be w/ a 9Y vs 8Y setup. One possibility would be to have a Pacific config and an Atlantic config for the 787 fleet. And given the longer stage lengths of a transpac vs. an atlantic flight it would be possible to isolate both fleets. But it would create a fleet utlization inefficiency that CO seems to try to avoid as much as possible w/ their aircraft.

Though it seems that with the exception of some very long flights like EWR-HKG, most any major current or future Asian destination (thinking mainland China, ICN, NRT, KIX, NGO, etc...) wouldn't be pushing the limits of the 787 even w/ a higher capacity layout.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
When CO first ordered the 787, we all assumed that it would be 8 abreast (2-4-2)

If it's 8-abreast, who says it won't be Boeing's highly touted 3-2-3? With this layout, the plane needs to be 62.5% full before you have somebody seated right next to you.

With 2-4-2, chances are greater you'll have someone seated next to you since the plane needs to be 50% full for this to happen.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
New transatlantic routes from IAH and EWR are planned, we know that, but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

Every route the 788 takes over for the 777 for frees the 777 up for shorter long-haul routes and mid-haul routes. Every route the 777 can stay on or take back over from the 764, the 764 can go back to routes that they are now flying 762+752, etc.

It's a trickle down, and the trickle down will free up 767s until they are out of the fleet. That won't be with the first wave of 10 787s. It'll be the second wave of 787s that will be used to replace the 767s, at least how I see it...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

I just look forward to the certification of the aircraft (would love to be involved with it), set up with regards to how the galleys will be constructed (see earlier parentheses) and where it will be flying. I believe that we want to fly to BOM and BLR with them in '09.


You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):

Every route the 788 takes over for the 777 for frees the 777 up for shorter long-haul routes and mid-haul routes. Every route the 777 can stay on or take back over from the 764, the 764 can go back to routes that they are now flying 762+752, etc.

It's a trickle down, and the trickle down will free up 767s until they are out of the fleet. That won't be with the first wave of 10 787s. It'll be the second wave of 787s that will be used to replace the 767s, at least how I see it...

Of course I understand that the arrival of the 787 at CO will result in many changes in aircraft allocations on longhaul routes. I do believe that the majority of 787s will directly or indirectly be used for expansion, opening new routes to new cities. And, I disagree with you concerning the 762ERs....I dont think that they are going anywhere in the medium-term future, the 762ER is ideal for many thin longhaul routes from both IAH and EWR to Europe; also consider that CO would like to have two banks of European departures out of EWR year round to key European cities which will require aircraft....and there are certain routes now operated with the 752 that would be much better served with the 762 for operational reasons.

It will be interesting to watch.....the 787 will change the CO network.


User currently offlineDrnate00 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2306 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
First, if you had the new seats, you were in coach, thus certainly no AVOD....no CO 752 has PTVs or AVOD in Y class yet.....from the info provided above, maybe next year, there has been no official announcement yet.

And, are you sure that your 752 had "753 style" seats......I was not aware that any 752s had been updated and I thought the program was scrapped. I heard that CO would wait until a decision was made on AVOD and PTVs for Y and do both projects together....I also heard that with the newer seats, pitch increases on the 752 to almost 32" in coach (like the 753 and 767s).

Yes I was on one of the 752's with 753 style interiors, which this aircraft also has winglets. How was I able to tell? On my first flight up I was on a 752 without winglets, so on a 5 1/2 hour crossing and couldnt sleep I asked one of the flight attendants why these seats were different on this plane compared to the one I was on from MCO, and his reply was that they are a new set of seats that they are trying out (they also had less width compared to the old style). Second they have empty metal boxes under the B and E seats which leads me to possible AVOD instillation, and third they have power ports in some seats, but not all....unfortunatley I didnt have one.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2280 times:

I would imagine Continental's would be somewhat close to NW's. NW's will have 36 in WBC, and 185 in Coach.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
And, I disagree with you concerning the 762ERs...

I would agree with you too, but recently CO connected people on these boards have said CO wants them out of the fleet when possible because in this fuel environment, they are just not efficient anymore.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):

I would agree with you too, but recently CO connected people on these boards have said CO wants them out of the fleet when possible because in this fuel environment, they are just not efficient anymore.

Then we will agree to disagree on this point.......out of the fleet when possible is an open ended statement.


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

I do not see why continental would get rid of the 767. We have 25 767s and 20 787's on order. If we get rid of the 767's when the 787's come in we will have 5 less aircraft. I hope cal will keep all the widbodies it can.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 22):
I do not see why continental would get rid of the 767. We have 25 767s and 20 787's on order. If we get rid of the 767's when the 787's come in we will have 5 less aircraft. I hope cal will keep all the widbodies it can.

I believe that he is only talking about the 762s (not the 764s)........CO has 16 764s and 10 762s......the theory is that 10 762s will be replaced with 20 787s....for a gain of ten.

As stated, I dont think that this will happen and CO will continue to fly the 762 until the "next" 787 order when it will consider replacing its entire 767 fleet with the new type.


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

I think we own 9 of the 10 767's-200. If that is true and we are going to keep 767-400 why get rid of them at all when we have routes that make money and need the range.

25 Dutchjet : I agree, and I think that is what will happen..........note that the argument against keeping the 762ER is its fuel performance.
26 Post contains links and images Crosswind : The Panasonic eFX is the lightest, most advanced system out there. Each VSEBQ underseat box can serve 9 seats versus 3 for most other AVOD systems, p
27 Dutchjet : Thanks for the info - very interesting indeed. With the new AVOD system - CO could remove the rather heavy old fashioned system that serviced the PTV
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