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Will Lufthansa Ever Fly To Yul?  
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2531 times:

I think there is great need for another flight to FRA from YUL. Think about it, only 2 daily flights with AC and they are using 767s! That's horrible, they should be using A340s, if not, I think Lufthansa should start flights here, they are one of the biggest airlines on the planet and I think they should now focus on flying to Montreal-Dorval. Our city is booming and I don't think there will be another referendum in Quebec for a long time. So, what do you think?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAF777 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2471 times:

As long as AC and Lufthansa are members of the Star Alliance and they flight from FRA-YUL is a code-share using the AC A340, I don't think Lufthansa will fly to YUL. Plus, I don't think there is the demand for flight to Frankfurt from YUL like there is to Paris for example (with 3 sometimes 4 flights a day), so Lufthansa probably wouldn't add a flight in addition to AC's. GUess we'll have to wait and find out
-wes


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2464 times:

Hello,

About the LH/AC cooperation:

Is that true that both airlines operate FRA-Calgary in summer under code-share agreement with an A340-300 please?

Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2464 times:

No, YYC is operated only by AC's 340's. YVR is operated only by LH's 340's. In years past LH flew into Calgary, but that was when they were partners with CP. I believe they used 747's on that route at the time, but it's been some time since LH left, the last time I remember seeing them at YYC was around '92 or so.

I believe that the YUL-FRA route is currently one daily 330 on AC. But don't forget that the charter airlines also offer flights to German destinations...

As far as LH to YUL, perhaps, but really there's no reason why they have to. LH and AC are partners, they share flights, it doesn't really matter which one operates the route in terms of their ability to serve it.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2457 times:

Hello AC183,

Were the LH operations regular in the early 1990s, under the code-share (?) of CP?

What about the more recent YYC-FRA flights? Only during summer?

Would you have the frequence per week please?

Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

YYC-FRA is currently an Air Canada operated year-round A340 daily route.

I'm not 100% sure about whether it was CP code-share, but I do remember that CP had some sort of partnership with LH at the time (before they went to BA), so I think it was a code-share. It was twice weekly 747's, I believe. The route actually ran from sometime in the late 70's, I believe, until LH pulled out in the '90's. After that AC and LH formed a partnership, and AC added YYC-FRA and code-shares on LH's YVR service (AC had previously flown YEG-FRA, which is no longer in operation although Edmonton is trying to get European service back).


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Hello,

So YYC-FRA started in summer 1997 or so, isn't it? I assume it must be thrice weekly or so, isn't it?

What is YEG please?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Lufthansa used to fly to Montréal-Mirabel using, I believe, A310s. I reacall seeing pictures of this flight, but I have no info on this flight.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

I don't remember for sure when YYC-FRA started, but it's 7X weekly.

YEG (Edmonton) hasn't have FRA flights for a few years now. AC gradually transitioned them over to YYC.


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Guys, stop talking about YYC and YEG. I don't know if you noticed, but the title of this message says "Will Lufthansa ever fly to YUL?", so stop posting things on YEG and YYC please.

Thank you.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Hello,

Thank you for these pieces of information LH423 and AC183.

I'll try to contact Lufthansa to know more about the FRA-YMX route.

Was the A340-300 operating the YEG-FRA route please?

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

PS: Please have a look at "European airlines @ Nagoya", it also envolves stories of LH A340  


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

No, Lufthansa never flew to YEG or YYC.

Please stop with the YYC and YEG questions.

Thank you.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

I rather though the YYC and YVR route sharing was relevant to YUL's potential for LH. Sorry.

To briefly answer the question of AFa340-300E, the YEG-FRA route was L-1011-500 service, and I believe it was operated by 767's for a while after the 1011's were retired.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Hello,

Sorry Noise about 'diverting' a bit.

YUL is indeed an attractive market as you stated, however in spite of the alliance AC-LH, there's hardly the same traffic on FRA-YUL and CDG-YUL for example. The latter benefits from the 'French link' (people in Montreal speak French and this added to the fame of the beautiful landscapes in France makes the difference).

Apparently, for now Lufthansa has still some long-haul routes where they need additional capacity (the much discussed new US destination, the additional frequencies on NGO, ...), and Air Canada's code-share seems to satify them, at least for now.

Hope this helps,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

PS: AC183, could you please contact me? My e-mail is on my profile.


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

But since AC and LH are parters, LH should use their own aircraft because they wouldn't have to be afraid of competition. Why would an AC be in competition with LH if they are both Star Alliance parters. Well, they would, LH could use their own aircraft. They would get money out of it.

What do you think.


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Hello Noise,

That's not sure. In a way Air France is also present on FRA-YUL, via CDG. That means that Air France could lower a bit its fares to prevent Lufthansa from accessing the market and taking up a part of their connection traffic.

Also, if the FRA-YUL market has a certain size, adding extra capacities would flood it and bring fares down (in order to keep reasonable load factors). That's not interesting, even more when you have the opportunity to put your aircraft on another, more profitable route.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offlineLouis From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Sorry for diverting once again. Ok, Lufthansa used to operate in Calgary about 10-12 years ago. It was on their FRA-YYC-YVR route and they used the DC-10. It was flown about 2X a week. This route was stopped about 9 years ago when CP and LH started codesharing. The Vancouver route was made non-stop with 747's. I don't remember the specific details, but I do recall having a LH timetable about 12 years ago that listed that specific routing.


User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

You don't really seem to understand the way the AC/LH partnership works... Lufthansa can sell a ticket on the AC flight and still make money, albeit without operating their own a/c therefore saving quite a bit. The question you seem to be getting at is "I want to see Lufthansa planes in Montreal because they are something different to spot." Well, I doubt that's going to happen... AC already provides the flights and Lufthansa flies a daily 744 already into Toronto, meaning a rather easy connection to Montreal, or an offer to take the AC flight direct from FRA-YUL... So, although I know you want to see Lufthansa in YUL (hey, we want Swissair, Sabena, and RAM in Toronto so...) it doesn't look likely unless LH and AC break ties with each other or the Star Alliance... Also, it could be a question of Lufthansa not wanting to go through the process of negitiating slots into YUL and using a valuable FRA slot when AC already has both...


Think before you type!
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

I think I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again: charter carriers are very big in the Montreal market. With Dorval handling around 9 million pax, Mirabel handles just charters and serves another 1.5 million or so pax. When you consider that Dorval's traffic is Canada/US/overseas flights, then Mirabel's share of overseas passengers is pretty significant. In terms of price, and in terms of choice of destinations in Europe, Air Transat and Canada3000 and Royal, as well as Corsair and others are very significant in the Montreal market, although frequency is admittedly not terribly high on any one route.

Noise, just to tie in the YYC/YEG/YVR flights into the YUL discussion, the point is merely that AC/LH share their YYC and YVR flights, as well as their YYZ and YUL flights, and they try to start routes with the idea of complementing each others network, not duplicating it. Also, as to LH going to YUL: rumour has it that Edmonton Airports has some interest from 'a major European carrier to start flights to Frankfurt.' That's not a particularly new rumour, and it is strictly rumour, but FWIW it could affect YUL's chances at a LH route, for better or worse.

Louis, I'd swear to seeing a LH 747 at YYC as late as '92 or '93. I'd have to go through a lot of stuff to find it, but I've got a Calgary Airport flight guide from that time period (after Calgary Airports Authority took over responsibility for the facility from Transport Canada) that lists LH as serving YYC, so LH did fly the route up until 7 or 8 years ago at least...

Alain, I'll get around to e-mailing you later, hopefully within a day or two, don't mind my procrastination at the moment  

Regards,

Matt


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