Noise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1667 posts, RR: 4 Posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2047 times:
I think there is great need for another flight to FRA from YUL. Think about it, only 2 daily flights with AC and they are using 767s! That's horrible, they should be using A340s, if not, I think Lufthansa should start flights here, they are one of the biggest airlines on the planet and I think they should now focus on flying to Montreal-Dorval. Our city is booming and I don't think there will be another referendum in Quebec for a long time. So, what do you think?
AF777 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
As long as AC and Lufthansa are members of the Star Alliance and they flight from FRA-YUL is a code-share using the AC A340, I don't think Lufthansa will fly to YUL. Plus, I don't think there is the demand for flight to Frankfurt from YUL like there is to Paris for example (with 3 sometimes 4 flights a day), so Lufthansa probably wouldn't add a flight in addition to AC's. GUess we'll have to wait and find out
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1980 times:
No, YYC is operated only by AC's 340's. YVR is operated only by LH's 340's. In years past LH flew into Calgary, but that was when they were partners with CP. I believe they used 747's on that route at the time, but it's been some time since LH left, the last time I remember seeing them at YYC was around '92 or so.
I believe that the YUL-FRA route is currently one daily 330 on AC. But don't forget that the charter airlines also offer flights to German destinations...
As far as LH to YUL, perhaps, but really there's no reason why they have to. LH and AC are partners, they share flights, it doesn't really matter which one operates the route in terms of their ability to serve it.
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
YYC-FRA is currently an Air Canada operated year-round A340 daily route.
I'm not 100% sure about whether it was CP code-share, but I do remember that CP had some sort of partnership with LH at the time (before they went to BA), so I think it was a code-share. It was twice weekly 747's, I believe. The route actually ran from sometime in the late 70's, I believe, until LH pulled out in the '90's. After that AC and LH formed a partnership, and AC added YYC-FRA and code-shares on LH's YVR service (AC had previously flown YEG-FRA, which is no longer in operation although Edmonton is trying to get European service back).
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1964 times:
Sorry Noise about 'diverting' a bit.
YUL is indeed an attractive market as you stated, however in spite of the alliance AC-LH, there's hardly the same traffic on FRA-YUL and CDG-YUL for example. The latter benefits from the 'French link' (people in Montreal speak French and this added to the fame of the beautiful landscapes in France makes the difference).
Apparently, for now Lufthansa has still some long-haul routes where they need additional capacity (the much discussed new US destination, the additional frequencies on NGO, ...), and Air Canada's code-share seems to satify them, at least for now.
Hope this helps,
PS: AC183, could you please contact me? My e-mail is on my profile.
Noise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1667 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
But since AC and LH are parters, LH should use their own aircraft because they wouldn't have to be afraid of competition. Why would an AC be in competition with LH if they are both Star Alliance parters. Well, they would, LH could use their own aircraft. They would get money out of it.
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1957 times:
That's not sure. In a way Air France is also present on FRA-YUL, via CDG. That means that Air France could lower a bit its fares to prevent Lufthansa from accessing the market and taking up a part of their connection traffic.
Also, if the FRA-YUL market has a certain size, adding extra capacities would flood it and bring fares down (in order to keep reasonable load factors). That's not interesting, even more when you have the opportunity to put your aircraft on another, more profitable route.
Louis From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1952 times:
Sorry for diverting once again. Ok, Lufthansa used to operate in Calgary about 10-12 years ago. It was on their FRA-YYC-YVR route and they used the DC-10. It was flown about 2X a week. This route was stopped about 9 years ago when CP and LH started codesharing. The Vancouver route was made non-stop with 747's. I don't remember the specific details, but I do recall having a LH timetable about 12 years ago that listed that specific routing.
C-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 39 Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1942 times:
You don't really seem to understand the way the AC/LH partnership works... Lufthansa can sell a ticket on the AC flight and still make money, albeit without operating their own a/c therefore saving quite a bit. The question you seem to be getting at is "I want to see Lufthansa planes in Montreal because they are something different to spot." Well, I doubt that's going to happen... AC already provides the flights and Lufthansa flies a daily 744 already into Toronto, meaning a rather easy connection to Montreal, or an offer to take the AC flight direct from FRA-YUL... So, although I know you want to see Lufthansa in YUL (hey, we want Swissair, Sabena, and RAM in Toronto so...) it doesn't look likely unless LH and AC break ties with each other or the Star Alliance... Also, it could be a question of Lufthansa not wanting to go through the process of negitiating slots into YUL and using a valuable FRA slot when AC already has both...
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1933 times:
I think I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again: charter carriers are very big in the Montreal market. With Dorval handling around 9 million pax, Mirabel handles just charters and serves another 1.5 million or so pax. When you consider that Dorval's traffic is Canada/US/overseas flights, then Mirabel's share of overseas passengers is pretty significant. In terms of price, and in terms of choice of destinations in Europe, Air Transat and Canada3000 and Royal, as well as Corsair and others are very significant in the Montreal market, although frequency is admittedly not terribly high on any one route.
Noise, just to tie in the YYC/YEG/YVR flights into the YUL discussion, the point is merely that AC/LH share their YYC and YVR flights, as well as their YYZ and YUL flights, and they try to start routes with the idea of complementing each others network, not duplicating it. Also, as to LH going to YUL: rumour has it that Edmonton Airports has some interest from 'a major European carrier to start flights to Frankfurt.' That's not a particularly new rumour, and it is strictly rumour, but FWIW it could affect YUL's chances at a LH route, for better or worse.
Louis, I'd swear to seeing a LH 747 at YYC as late as '92 or '93. I'd have to go through a lot of stuff to find it, but I've got a Calgary Airport flight guide from that time period (after Calgary Airports Authority took over responsibility for the facility from Transport Canada) that lists LH as serving YYC, so LH did fly the route up until 7 or 8 years ago at least...
Alain, I'll get around to e-mailing you later, hopefully within a day or two, don't mind my procrastination at the moment