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Randy B. Comments On 787 Fuse, A380 Hiccups  
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

from Randy's Blog:
Randy Baseler Blog

Basically Randy's 'Big Airplanes' entry talks about the difficulty of building airplanes, and answers some questions regarding that all too famous 787 fuse as well as his (and Boeing's) insight into the recent a380 delay.

"You may have read media reports about a recent challenge with one of the composite fuselage barrels we've built during the development phase of 787 Dreamliner. We built eight test fuselage barrels successfully, and with improving quality...."

"This ninth finished barrel was found to be unacceptable, due to some excessive porosity, or trapped gas or air in the fuselage material.Our study of the root cause clearly points to differences between tools and processes used on this barrel compared to the eight others."



"Now, you may also have read about some problems with Airbus' production and delivery schedule for the A380. They've hit a tough patch. But Airbus has a long history of achievements. They'll work through it and will continue to be a formidable competitor."

Edited for content.

[Edited 2006-06-24 00:21:49]


Now you're really flying
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

Very classy blog, IMO.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4681 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10091 times:

Here I was thinking that planes just grew on trees.......


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10091 times:

I agree. No Airbus bashing at all, not like Leahy

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10070 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 3):
not like Leahy

Has Mr. Leahy ever taken the "high road" when Boeing had problems? (Hint: this is a rhetorical question)



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9982 times:

It just shows that Boeing is light years ahead of airbus in the area of public relations.

It is also easy to be reasonable when you are on top.

It might also mean that Boeing wants to keep Airbus as its major competitor rather than learn to deal with another.

It might also mean Boeing is setting the scene in case it runs into problems with the 787. This is my choice.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9944 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 3):
I agree. No Airbus bashing at all, not like Leahy

Leahy bashes Airbus?!?


User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9909 times:

Randy is classy individual, Leahy is not period! remember Leahy use to sell cars before he got his job at airbus. Big grin


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9893 times:

Please find a quote from Leahy bashing Boeing about production problems.

Thanks.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 8):
Please find a quote from Leahy bashing Boeing about production problems.

Production problems! You don't get off that easy! The question is: when did Leahy ever take the "high road" and refrain from criticizing his competitor when it was having problems. IMO, Randy's latest blog shows a lot of class.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 6):

Leahy bashes Airbus?!?

Read more carefully  Wink

Quoting Aither (Reply 8):
Please find a quote from Leahy bashing Boeing about production problems.

Please find a quote from Randy bashing Airbus about anything !

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9788 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 9):
Production problems! You don't get off that easy! The question is: when did Leahy ever take the "high road" and refrain from criticizing his competitor when it was having problems. IMO, Randy's latest blog shows a lot of class.

Some entries were not as discussed on this forum. He was sometime way out of the line when comparing manufacturers products. Not very classy.

Many times Airbus had the opportunity to criticize Boeing as well and did not take the opportunity. Both manufacturer are quite "classy" overall.

Bashing Airbus is like bashing France, it's all about ignorance.

[Edited 2006-06-24 01:23:37]


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9770 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 11):
Bashing Airbus is like bashing France, it's all about ignorance.

Huh?  confused  We're talking about Randy B's latest blog. Other posters and I compared it to the utterly different tact taken by Mr. Leahy. How did we get to the point of a strike against Airbus is a rebuke of France? Big leap IMO....



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9758 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 11):
Bashing Airbus is like bashing France, it's all about ignorance.

Because there's never been an apt criticism of the French...  Yeah sure

Quoting Aither (Reply 8):
Please find a quote from Leahy bashing Boeing about production problems.

There are numerous, including the gem in 2003 in which Leahy said it was physically impossible for Boeing to construct the 7E7 from CFRP


User currently offlineSaturn5 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9742 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 11):
Many times Airbus had the opportunity to criticize Boeing as well and did not take the opportunity.

I guess you have no clue about the history of statements that Mr. Leahy (who works for Airbus) made - someone once collected and posted all of them on this forum. Yes, Mr.Leahy took delight in bushing Boeing, no Airbus is not "classy", not until people like Leahy will work there. Of course Mr. Leahy could have changed his ways - we shall see.


User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9724 times:

Quote:
Bashing Airbus is like bashing France, it's all about ignorance

I thought France was Airbus???

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...rowing+political+scandal+over.html



A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 14):
guess you have no clue about the history of statements that Mr. Leahy (who works for Airbus) made - someone once collected and posted all of them on this forum. Yes, Mr.Leahy took delight in bushing Boeing, no Airbus is not "classy", not until people like Leahy will work there. Of course Mr. Leahy could have changed his ways - we shall see

Leahy is a salesman defending the Airbus products and playing down competition's products.

Saying the 787 technology is causing some issues is fair and far different than eventually laughing at the other production problems.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9665 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 16):
Saying the 787 technology is causing some issues is fair and far different than eventually laughing at the other production problems.

I just re-read Randy's latest blog and no where is he laughing at Airbus' production problems.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offline787engineer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 572 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9648 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 16):
Saying the 787 technology is causing some issues is fair and far different than eventually laughing at the other production problems.

Who's laughing at who's production problems? Boeing certainly isn't laughing at the issues with the A380. Leahy on the other hand have made some statements that I consider. . . well you can judge for yourself. . .

Leahy once called the 787's use of composites for the fuselage "rushed and ridiculous"  Yeah sure.

This was no gem either: Airbus's response is the �4 billion ($5.3 billion) A350 programme, which was unveiled in December and "put a hole in Boeing's Christmas stocking", says Airbus chief commercial officer John Leahy.

"The 'dream machine' or whatever it's called? I couldn't have hoped for a better name, being their competitor. It's a PR man's dream, but an engineer's nightmare ... It's purely a PR man's dream. I think the travelling public knows that, too, which is probably why they voted [for the name 'Dreamliner']. In fact, it seems most of the people at Airbus who voted picked the 'Dreamliner'. Some of the traditionalists
voted for 'Stratoclimber', which would have been a better name."

'Leahy says he's so convinced the Dreamliner will never fly that he's started taking wagers.'

"If [Boeing] bring out something that costs $8bn in 2008, they're not going to be around for the 2012-15 cycle."

"Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only two seats."

"Unless [Boeing] have discovered some new law of physics or some new manufacturing process that nobody in the world has ever heard of -- and we know they have not -- then they either will be sub-optimal, in which case they will make an airplane and it will cost them a fortune to do it, or they will come back toward the best engineering and manufacturing standards and build a plane with less than 30 percent
composites."

"You can increase the hype, but you can't change the physics. The cabin will look like the A330, and the economics of the [7E7] will be similar as well.

"[The Boeing claim that 200 7E7 orders by end-04 is possible is] typical hype. I've never seen an airplane where the market hype from the PR department is less in contact with the reality of the marketplace ... Those numbers are purely a figment of the imagination of Boeing's public relations department there in Seattle."

Some real classy statements there  Yeah sure


User currently offlineZoom1018 From Vietnam, joined May 2005, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9648 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 8):

I just find something quite interesting here:
http://www.leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn041806.pdf


User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 17):
I just re-read Randy's latest blog and no where is he laughing at Airbus' production problems.

Never said he was.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9598 times:

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 18):
Who's laughing at who's production problems?

So what ? he's playing down the 787 program just like Boeing is playing down the A380 program. Many are still not convinced by the composite fuselage etc.

As i said it's far different than saying something like : "great you have failed in your testings!".

It's just incredible how suddenly Boeing is perceived like the cool company while Airbus would be full of incompetent uncivilised barbarians.
You'll see, soon there will be articles about the "Boeing family" having great values, going to church every sunday, with 5 nice kids and a blonde wife.

This is really getting ridiculous.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9584 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 16):
Leahy is a salesman defending the Airbus products and playing down competition's products.

Leahy defends Airbus's products like a vacuum cleaner salesman bad mouthing his competitors.
Playing down is one thing, but bad mouthing is another. Playing down is showing number, compare and contrast, etc. Bad mouthing is for example calling 787 chinese copy of A330.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9555 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 22):
Bad mouthing is for example calling 787 chinese copy of A330.

Bad mouthing is also calling the A380 a symbol of European arrogance.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9518 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 23):
Bad mouthing is also calling the A380 a symbol of European arrogance.


I have never heard Randy made this statement. Care to provide any proof of your allegation?

However, a "short list" of Leahy bad mouthing 787

http://www.ifdg.net/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1499

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : with Airbus management, its called "hubris" and that's what most people hate about Airbus management, not that fact they make killer planes and they
26 Saturn5 : And who said so, I guarantee you it was not anybody from Boeing. Just to remind you - we are talking about what Boeing/Airbus executives say about th
27 Post contains links Revelation : Not to disrupt a good Leahy bashing session, but the "Chinese copy" comment comes from none other than the EADS Co-CEO and current man of the moment,
28 Post contains links Zoom1018 : That is so true!!! Has Boeing ever stated these towards Airbus? "I've never seen an airplane where the market hype from the PR department is less in
29 EbbUK : Yes he is American isn't he? Time you had him back me thinks. Nice fellow, a bit mouthy that's all. No actually the Europeans should keep him. It's b
30 Post contains images PolymerPlane : What? Are you trying to make this into a Europe Vs. US? Maybe we should start bashing Forgeard...   Are you high on something? I wonder: you come fr
31 Post contains images Saturn5 : I thought he was English. But I would never hire him in the US or wherever - perhaps he could do well as a used car salesman.
32 Post contains links and images NorCal : Is this what you were referring too? "Without question the A380 is a great engineering and industrial achievement. We congratulate Airbus on reaching
33 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Way to be totally wrong: "You may have read media reports about a recent challenge with one of the composite fuselage barrels we've built during the
34 NYC777 : Got it all wrong dude!!! They built 8 test section SUCCESSFULLY (and no where were they going to try and join them). The ninth failed because of an e
35 EbbUK : No I think Forgeard has done enough bashing of his own. However, just in case you do start it, I will readily join in. what I like is that as a plane
36 AerospaceFan : Randy is a class act. What a great blog entry! I am very happy for Boeing that it has taken this high road.
37 Jacobin777 : I can't recall Boeing bashing Airbus like that....
38 PlanesNTrains : Well at least he managed to get through a thread without using the word "Balls" in some sort of analogy. He seems to have found a way to use it in a
39 Bohlman : I think the bottom line is that Randy is avoiding the clear mistakes that Leahy made by over extending his opinion. Boeing sees the current situation
40 Mham001 : I don't know why you all focus on Leahy, although I guess he is Randys counterpart, but Forgeard has led the way in classless behavior....I recall on
41 AerospaceFan : Forgeard has -- what's an antonym for "endeared himself to"? -- alienated -- me as an observer of the industry with what appeared to me to be his rath
42 Brendows : Boeing never had intention to make these barrels fit for flight, they were only supposed to be test barrels.
43 Post contains images AutoThrust : LOL some guys take it to personal what leahy says. Anyway i dont like his attitude and saying that BS about Boeing. But you guys shouldn't blame airbu
44 Post contains images Art : Just to clarify the position for the contributor from France, Airbus is not French. This is something that many US + French a.netters do not seem to
45 USAF336TFS : Class act, Randy is... Randy and his bosses at Boeing have clearly taken the high road with respect to the A380 issues. And they know two things very
46 N867BX : Yes, both are equally enjoyable ways of passing the time.
47 BHMBAGLOCK : By your logic, Boeing should tell RR to take a hike. Luckily they're a bit more intelligent than this. btw, beyond suppliers there are lots of non-Am
48 PlanesNTrains : Well, if Airbus is gonna hire the guy, then I guess Airbus should take the criticism or reward of his actions. Airbus is not a victim here - they are
49 Shenzhen : I can't remember any large commercial airplane manufacturer bashing another until the current management at Airbus have tried changing the rules (past
50 AirMailer : You mean that it's childs play?
51 EbbUK : No mon ami it sounds like your ILlogic. Never ever said that. I re-state the truly global company Airbus is. Reason? I know not of any Europeans at s
52 Wjcandee : A phrase that I like to use to describe the above: "Losers spin. Winners grin."
53 Okelleynyc : Hey EbbUK, I really enjoy reading your posts and consider you a valuable member of the A.net forum. Plus, I think you're often "spot on" on many issu
54 AerospaceFan : I would hope that everyone would understand that praise for Boeing and Randy's blog doesn't mean that Airbus as a company is inferior. As for me, I be
55 Tom_EDDF : About 25 years ago, Airbus was nothing. Today, Airbus delivered more planes and took more orders on an annual basis than the industry benchmark compet
56 EbbUK : Good or bad, better or worse I don't know. But whoever gets the planes sold by the bucket load is fine by me, as it whatever team of individuals desi
57 BHMBAGLOCK : Seddik Belyamani from Morocco retired a few years ago from Boeing as VP for Sales. Not European, but I think African is part of being global just as
58 Frugalqxnwa : Here here! While I personally prefer Boeing, I certainly do take the view that Airbus is a good company and I have a lot of respect for how they went
59 Yellekc : More like their management is the problem. Its sure not their engineering or building talent.
60 EbbUK : It wouldn't take much thought to realise that Africa is part of the global network. Fantastic achievement by Belyamani and Boeing. Possibly the worst
61 Post contains images BHMBAGLOCK : CFO is definitely top tier, President and CEO even higher. Deal Bad wording on my part, I should have noted that you made your point implicitly rathe
62 EbbUK : et voila. Airbus has some way to go.
63 OldAeroGuy : Belyamani occupied the same position at Boeing that Leahy occupies at Airbus.
64 Widebody : Randy's blog is PR and nothing else. And it's good PR given the attitudes and statements of those high up in Airbus. HOWEVER, taking a PR exercise as
65 ContnlEliteCMH : Your assertion may be direct, but your conclusion is anything but. Are you attempting to assign superiority to Airbus because you think they are more
66 EbbUK : And all he got was a VP title? An achievement none the less. no dear boy, for if ever I would want to do that, I would. As I haven't in this or any o
67 BHMBAGLOCK : VP for Sales for the largest exporter from the US is a pretty significant position any way you slice it. You may be thinking of our banking system wh
68 ContnlEliteCMH : Do you customarily make observations without making plain your conclusions or intentions? Since this thread deals with how one manufacturer responds
69 EbbUK : Yes, Airbus is still "more" global than Boeing. There is no argument about that fact. Boeing "had" a foreign national at a senior level, Airbus "has"
70 Post contains images AutoThrust : Thats very interesting Widebody thank you and it just confirms my opinion about Boeing company. They are really much better with PR. They want try to
71 Post contains images BHMBAGLOCK : I give up! You persist in equating "global" to having a senior mgt player from another country when this is such a small part of what makes a company
72 DeltaDC9 : It has absolutely nothing to do with the "glue". Resin is not glue BTW. They were experimenting with a different cheaper mandrel. It is called R&D. W
73 Post contains images DAYflyer : Thats about the only thing that blowhard Leahy knows how to do, try and smack down Boeing every chance he gets. He usually ends up like
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