Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline  
User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 12431 times:

Iberia will have a low-cost subsidiary (20% in shares) based in Barcelona, Spain.

The most unknown is IB will have a code-share agreement with its low-cost partner and the Catair (name is not official yet) passenger will can use the FFP of IB, "Iberia Plus" ...then, so far I know, first time a low cost airline has a similar agreement with a full-service airline.

Iberia is having a very good idea. The best defence is a good counterattack to its low cost (EasyJet, FR, VY) competition.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/889/catair2by.jpg

What do you think about this subject?

From the "El Periodico de Cataluña": (sorry, it is in Spanish)
Catair, la nueva compañía aérea de bajo coste participada por Iberia, está casi totalmente perfilada. Su base será el aeropuerto de El Prat, desde donde planea conectar con 56 ciudades españolas y extranjeras en tres años, realizar 170 vuelos diarios y captar un total de 14 millones de pasajeros antes de tres años. Del total de rutas desde Barcelona, 24 serán a destinos que Iberia no dispone actualmente desde El Prat. La nueva compañía de bajo coste abrirá nuevas líneas de negocio hacia Europa del Este.
A medio plazo, los objetivos de Catair son transportar cinco millones de viajeros en el 2007 y alcanzar la cifra de 10 millones en el 2008. Pero, por el momento, se conformará con captar 400.000 clientes en esta primera temporada de invierno a través de sus 2.499 derechos de aterrizaje y despegue (slots) que ya posee en El Prat.

La aerolínea comenzará su andadura con 10 rutas desde Barcelona pero, al cabo de tres años, tiene intención de realizar 56 conexiones, 20 de ellas nacionales y el resto al extranjero, principalmente hacia el este de Europa, como Moscú y Varsovia, y el norte de África


 arrow  The new carrier will use 5 airliners A-320 ...13 in 2007 and 30 by the end of 2008 and they will serve 54 European airports and 2 in North Africa.

Madrid-Barajas will not served by this new low-cost airline.

No doubt, a smart move from Iberia.


Time flies! Enjoy life!
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWAtwaTWA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

My recent experience with Iberia is that they are already a no-frills low cost airline that doesn't offer much more than spanish version of WN that travels internationally. What else will they cut out to save costs? Remove seatcushions and ask you to pay for the padding?

Maybe someone can shed some more light on my experience, but my April flight on Iberia from LHR to MAD and return was very surprising for an international flight. The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach! There was a "curtain" dividing the cabin, but that was about the only difference. Also the service was worse than WN: forget about the food that was of course not free, but for sale only, I had to pay for a coke! I couldn't even get water for free. Of course they also lost our bags as well for the entire time of our week long pleasure trip to Spain. the long line of angry passengers at the terminal without bags was one thing, but many of those waiting were frequent iberia travellers who were furious at the high frequency of lost bags on Iberia.

Sorry for the cynicism in this post, but we had quite a negative experience. Please someone explain to me what exactly Iberia is offering its first class international passengers other than free coke? Maybe they can charge the coach passengers a 1euro tariff for using the lavatory!



We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
User currently offlineTWAtwaTWA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 12299 times:

ok perhaps my previous post was a bit off subject and negative.

back to the topic at hand...

i agree that iberia is launching what seems like a good idea. Southwestern Europe could use a carrier like this- maybe the can call it EuroSouthwest Airlines! Unfortunately, all the low-cost subsidiaries that were launched in the US have failed:

United-Ted
Delta-Song
United-United Shuttle
Delta-Delta Shuttle

there are perhaps many reasons for the failures, union deal, competition with smaller better-run los-cost carriers, amongst other reasons. Maybe the iberia low cost version may work, but i hope they studied the american failures before embarking on this new venture



We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25082 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 12279 times:

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach!

Welcome to Europe. Most European carriers short/medium premium products feature the same basic seating set ups as economy class. Most often the middle seat is left open, and on some it folds down creating a sort of table in between. Such cabins give the carriers great flexibility in using the same aircraft across their European and domestic networks on both leisure and business routes.

I believe the impetus for IB to develop a LCC has to do with its relatively high cost structure vis-a-vis Spanish and European LCCs which have heavily concentrated on attacking of the carriers Spanish regional airports. The IB LCC should help the carrier possibly win back market share with operating cost matching its competitors.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 5 hours ago) and read 12259 times:

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 2):
all the low-cost subsidiaries that were launched in the US have failed:

United-Ted
Delta-Song
United-United Shuttle
Delta-Delta Shuttle

Don't forget Continental Lite and its Peanuts Fares....


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 12142 times:

On the map I see there are red and blue symbols for each destination. Could someone translate what they represent from the key for me as I cant read Spanish.

Thanks



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 12111 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):
On the map I see there are red and blue symbols for each destination. Could someone translate what they represent from the key for me as I cant read Spanish.

Blue are destinations already served by IB, red are new destinations.

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 12087 times:

So it looks like EDI, MAN and SOU are new UK destinations.

SOU is a bit of a surprise



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 12061 times:

I believe the impetus for IB to develop a LCC has to do with its relatively high cost structure vis-a-vis Spanish and European LCCs which have heavily concentrated on attacking of the carriers Spanish regional airports. The IB LCC should help the carrier possibly win back market share with operating cost matching its competitors.


That's exactly the point. Iberia has been plagued with high staff costs and - due to the hub system - suboptimal block hour usage of its BCN-based fleet for quite a while. Combine this with dilluted yields at BCN due to the influx of low cost carriers (not that big of a problem at MAD due to slot limitations) and you'll see, what Iberia is intending to achieve here.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 12061 times:

I see NUE on their map-but what partner-airline of Iberia flies to NUE ???
LX are LH ( Star ),AF and KLM are Skyteam and no other airline in the Oneworld group serves NUE.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 12055 times:

If the creation of the new LC-daughter goes hand in hand with an adaption of the actual IB product to a more quality than price driven airline, I think it could be a good idea.

I think most of us do agree, that IB 's product at least within Europe is the one of a LCC. So by bringing it's product back to levels they once used to have, the new LC-Airline could be successful. If not, they will only have two competitors in house and then I don't see the reason for.

As IB's network goes trough MAD it makes sense to me, starting this new company in BCN, as BCN has mostly point - to - point connections within Europe. In the same, they can face the big competition of LCC's at BCN. By adapting the IB short haul product to the long range standard, it would also make sense, for the passengers, connecting trough MAD to the world.

Cheers
Legacy135 

[Edited 2006-06-26 12:45:58]

User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months ago) and read 11955 times:

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
my April flight on Iberia from LHR to MAD and return was very surprising for an international flight. The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach! There was a "curtain" dividing the cabin, but that was about the only difference. Also the service was worse than WN: forget about the food that was of course not free, but for sale only, I had to pay for a coke! I couldn't even get water for free. Of course they also lost our bags as well for the entire time of our week long pleasure trip to Spain. the long line of angry passengers at the terminal without bags was one thing, but many of those waiting were frequent iberia travellers who were furious at the high frequency of lost bags on Iberia.

As laxintl has said above... This is Europe. And LHR-MAD despite being "international" is even shorter than what you call domestic (which is true) routes such as JFK-MIA or SEA-LAX....

More differences... It's not called First, It's Bussines. In your first class you have 2x2 seating and on european routes IB leaves the central seat blocked so there're only 4 people per row with more legroom than tourist. A business class ticket also allows you to enter the airport lounges, use designated check-in desks and have a shorter check-in deadline (usually 30 mins vs. 50 mins for tourist) and free meal service on board.

About the baggage... I've always heard Heathrow to be a black-hole for baggage... but Barajas also had "some" trouble for the opening of T4

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
What else will they cut out to save costs?

Lots of things... They now run a network airline. They have to connect passengers, "connect" their bags, do multiple check-in for these people even on other airlines, pay ticket fees to GDS, reallocate pax in case of missing connections, issue vouchers in case of severe delayed baggage.....

That all costs money.... Let alone crew hotels. If you simplify the routes by flying Base-Destination-Base is cheaper (both aircraft and crew). Those "little" things could mean huge savings. Remember that story about removing one olive from each salad, I think it was AA who did it....


User currently offlineEha From France, joined May 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months ago) and read 11910 times:

Any news on the strike called for July 10th-16th by the pilots, in response to the new LC ? what would be the routes affected ? I am travelling to MEX on the 20th...I'd like to be sure the conflict will not spread... I find very little news on this.

E.


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11825 times:

Quoting Eha (Reply 12):
what would be the routes affected ?

Usually when there's a strike, the following services shall not be affected:
-Routes between two islands
-Routes between mainland Spain and the islands
-Routes between mainland Spain and Ceuta and Mellila
-Routes longer than 500 km or 5 hours by other means of public transportation

That means only some Iberian routes could be affected such as MAD-LIS, BCN-AGP, BCN-ALC....

All flights operated by regional franchise Air Nostrum (IB-8xxx) will remain in place as well as IB-7xxx operated by other airlines. Same for 757 flights operated by AUDELI....

Anyway, if your flight gets cancelled IB will do its best to re-allocate you in other flight but expect the worse and hope for the best


User currently offlineCanib7599 From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11712 times:

Hi, just flew AF between LIS & CDG, with full service in y-class, incl wine with your meal. Later I flew CDG-MAD ( = same distance approx) and you were required to purchase ALL items from their menu. Water on board was even more expensive than the restaurants in the new T4 !
I agree, that in the past many pax ate the meals just to pass the time,so there was a lot of waste, however now it seems that this has become a big moneymaker. Mind you, here in Canada, even on a 5hr flight between YUL & YVR you have to purchase your drinks/meals.....times have changed !!


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2148 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
I see NUE on their map-but what partner-airline of Iberia flies to NUE ???

I'm not sure I understand your question.. NUE is marked as a 'new destination *not* served already by the Iberia group' while the blue ones are 'destinations for the new airline', which are already served by Iberia.

cheers

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11430 times:

So that implicitely marks a new airline for NUE then -great-since Air Berlin promised since quite some time a new direct flight from NUE to Barcelona but never actually started it.All flights from NUE to Barcelona are via PMI ,MUC or ZUR .


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11165 times:

Having a HUB in BCN could be very beneficial for AV now that it has a 3x weekly flights from BOG and 1x to ALC . It could be a good feed to their LATAM network. People wont have to travel to MAD to get to South America.. don't you think?


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1136 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11152 times:

The name "CAT-Air" makes sense since airline will be based in Cataluña but what about when it starts expanding to other markets? Why a more dynamic or appealing name was not chosen?

User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11115 times:

Catair is the legal name of the company (recently registered) but although it was first thought as the operating brand it will finally be not.

Catair Lineas Aereas S.A. has registered the domain clikair.com so that may well be the final brand name. In my opinion, sounds too cheap but that may well help sales.

Btw: Catair is currently hiring pilots so pilots out there, it's your chance to have a low-paying job in BCN  Smile


User currently offlinePacificFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Why do they need a low-cost carrier now when they got rid of Viva AIr? Why not just bring back Viva Air?

User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10985 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 18):
People wont have to travel to MAD to get to South America.. don't you think?

Absolutely. Additionally, BCN is a real nice airport, offering a nice terminal with plenty of nice shops and a variety of restaurants, from fast food up to a nice grill and by for not as crowded as MAD. I have to admit, I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet, but BCN has a new one under construction as well.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10862 times:

Quoting PacificFlyer (Reply 21):
Why not just bring back Viva Air?

Viva Air was a charter airline in a joint venture IB-LH in the beginning. Anyhow ....I like your idea very much  Wink

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 22):
I have to admit, I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet

You should do it!!!  cloudnine 



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10822 times:

Quoting JJJ (Reply 20):
Catair Lineas Aereas S.A. has registered the domain clikair.com so that may well be the final brand name.

Have you ckecked clikair.com? It alreadu seems to belong to a French company.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 22):
I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet,

Terminal 4 is beautiful, a nice place to "visit", but undoubtedly the worst and most illogiccally designed terminal I have ever visited... it's awful if you're in a hurry. If you've got loads of time to spare, it's a pretty impressive place.

Quoting PacificFlyer (Reply 21):
Why not just bring back Viva Air?

Good idea, I likes Viva Air and I remember flying them quite a bit between Ireland and Spain, and they did do some scheduled routes (not just charters) for Iberia as I know Ireland-Spain was on their scheduled network



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10804 times:

Quoting Canib7599 (Reply 14):
Mind you, here in Canada, even on a 5hr flight between YUL & YVR you have to purchase your drinks/meals.....times have changed !!

I try and fly Executive First between YVR and YYZ on AC. Failing that, you are right, the Economy service is pretty lacking on long domestic flights.

I recently tried Harmony in both Economy and Harmony One. You may want to give them a try, it's an experience that AC now fails to provide.



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
25 MainMAN : What isn't such a smart move from Iberia is suggesting which cities it intends to serve from BCN so far in advance. I don't get this, doesn't it give
26 Post contains images JJJ : Someone posted a whois search elsewhere saying the domain belonged to Catair, now I did the search myself and I see this French company.
27 Toulouse : Problem solved, it's clickair.com (and not clikair.com) which is registered to Catair Linear Aéreas. Don't really like the name myslef?
28 Post contains images JJJ : Oh I don't like it either, it says cheap in big capital letters. Anyway, it's also been reported that IB mainline will codeshare with Catair/clickair
29 Humberside : Makes sense as passengers will be able to connect at BCN from the remaining IB flights there to the new Catair flights on one Iberia ticket
30 RootsAir : They made an error with GVA. GVA is ALREADY served by IB since many decades
31 MainMAN : Catair wouldn't appeal to UK passengers, but Mediterranea would.
32 Arecibo : Wounder how realistic is to pull out 400K passengers with 10 routes this season alone,when there is so much low cost carrier saturatuion at El Pratt.
33 SKY1 : In my opinion this is the most important subject as this is the first time who a standard carrier will do code-share with a low cost airline and the
34 Humberside : I believe Qantas codeshare on Jetstar Asia flights
35 SKY1 : Sometimes things are not like it seems. Please, check the current status more deeply by yourself (Wonder yourself about the map put above ...about th
36 TheSunseeker : its about time, because Iberia is too expensive for 2006 standards.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
A New Israeli Low Cost Airline? posted Sun Mar 26 2006 10:28:30 by LY777
New NW Low Cost Airline posted Mon Feb 27 2006 02:56:23 by Mycrj17
New Irish Low Cost Airline! posted Mon Sep 19 2005 01:02:15 by EI321
New International Low-Cost Airline In SA posted Wed Mar 31 2004 05:21:33 by Eddieho
New Indian Low-Cost Airline Proposed posted Sat Nov 30 2002 21:58:44 by Singapore_Air
New German Low Cost Airline: Express Airways posted Tue Nov 26 2002 16:34:36 by Britair
New MyTravel Low-cost Airline posted Mon Jun 24 2002 20:46:08 by John Walton
New Italian Low-Cost Airline (and Ryanair/easyJet) posted Wed Apr 3 2002 20:32:46 by Teahan
New French Low-Cost Airline Based In Paris posted Wed Mar 27 2002 20:09:55 by Teahan
New Qantas Low Cost Airline posted Sun Feb 25 2001 09:08:04 by Qantas737
New French Low-Cost Airline Based In Paris posted Wed Mar 27 2002 20:09:55 by Teahan
New Qantas Low Cost Airline posted Sun Feb 25 2001 09:08:04 by Qantas737