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LAN Argentina And The Future Of AR  
User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Hello all, I'm a long time listener, first time caller so to speak...

I searched for this, but did not find any topics on the subject.

I wonder if the aggressive expansion of LAN Argentina will eventually see the demise of AR.

Some thoughts on the matter..
- AR inflight service is poor compared to LAN (at least in my experience). I have to wonder about the viability of an airline that serves you the same ham sandwich regardless of the time of departure.
- LAN flies newer and more comfortable Airbuses compared to AR's tired MD's.
- LAN as a OneWorld member provides much better international connection/FF sharing opportunities.

A few kayak.com searches show that fares are approximately equal.

Anecdotally, a quick story - One time I was on AR from USH-EZE (or so my boarding pass said) and the flight landed at AEP, without warning. After sitting in the back of the bus right next to the engine and no view, I deplaned out the rear exit of the MD onto the tarmac to realize in horror that I was at the wrong airport. I made my UA connection out of EZE by the skin of my teeth. I find it hard to believe that an airline that would do such a thing can make it nowadays.

Does anyone know if the Grupo Marsans ownership group (including JK) are planning any infrastructure improvements or other ways to bring the airline up to modern standards? Or if they are planning on more of the same? It seems to me that more of the same will mean the same fate as RG.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSABE From Argentina, joined Jun 2005, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Welcome to A.net, Zudnic!

I don't think LA/4M will mean the demise of AR/AU, but hopefully the competition will result in improvements and benefits for the consumer.

Landing at AEP when you were expecting EZE to make a short connection must have been terrible! Did AR ever explain what happened to you?

Cheers,

--Lucas



TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting SABE (Reply 1):
Landing at AEP when you were expecting EZE to make a short connection must have been terrible! Did AR ever explain what happened to you?

Lucas - thanks for the welcome note. At the time the AR rep at AEP hired a car to take us to EZE. I wrote a letter to their office in New York asking for an explanation, but received no reply.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32610 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
- LAN as a OneWorld member provides much better international connection/FF sharing opportunities

Just a side note, but LAN Argentina is not part of oneWorld, and neither is LAN Ecuador. Only LAN Chile and LAN Peru are. LAN Argentina is part of AAdvantage, however.



a.
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
LAN flies newer and more comfortable Airbuses compared to AR's tired MD's

Sorry, but LAN Argentina flies MUCH OLDER 737-200s than AR's 737-200/500s. LAN Argentina has only 1 A320.

Have you ever flown 4M domestic?

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
Anecdotally, a quick story - One time I was on AR from USH-EZE (or so my boarding pass said) and the flight landed at AEP, without warning. After sitting in the back of the bus right next to the engine and no view, I deplaned out the rear exit of the MD onto the tarmac to realize in horror that I was at the wrong airport. I made my UA connection out of EZE by the skin of my teeth. I find it hard to believe that an airline that would do such a thing can make it nowadays.

AEP is the Domestic airport. If the flight was diverted to AEP for a reason, then you should have approached the AR counters and of course, AR would've hired a bus or a car to take you or all the connecting passengers.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
Does anyone know if the Grupo Marsans ownership group (including JK) are planning any infrastructure improvements or other ways to bring the airline up to modern standards? Or if they are planning on more of the same? It seems to me that more of the same will mean the same fate as RG

Pffft.  Yeah sure WAY too exaggerated comment. Grupo Marsans owns a tad of JK. They are the full owners of Air Plus Comet. However, modern standards? Infrastructure is not to be taken care of by an Airline. If you want to complain about the airports, here's were you need to write:

Organismo Regulador del Sistema Nacional de Aeropuertos (ORSNA)
Av. Corrientes 441 PB.
C.P. C1043AAE
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires, Argentina

BTW, don't ever expect an answer to that letter. AR's office in New York is disastrous.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
I wonder if the aggressive expansion of LAN Argentina will eventually see the demise of AR.

LAN Argentine has a big way before it reaches AR/AU. In the last year, AR/AU are making a good job in restructurating and reequipping it's fleet. They are gradualy substituting B737-200s by B737-500 (not a new plane, but much better then their jurasic 732s), and getting some new widebodies to internation service, such as B744 and A310 (Latin America Services).
Concluding, AR/AU are not stuck on time, and LAN Argentina will have to do a great job to front them.



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

Good afternoon Zudnic,

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):

- AR inflight service is poor compared to LAN (at least in my experience). I have to wonder about the viability of an airline that serves you the same ham sandwich regardless of the time of departure.

Which routes did you fly Aerolíneas on, and what time was it when your flight took off? Aerolíneas' in flight meals can certainly be improved, but I never considered them that bad. When other airlines make you pay for food, it is acceptable to get a sandwich and a glass of whatever drink you want, especially on national flights. This said, longer routes such as AEP-USH usually mean you'd get a whole meal.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
- LAN flies newer and more comfortable Airbuses compared to AR's tired MD's.

Airbuses? There is just one A320 flying for Lan Argentina (LV-BET), while the rest of the fleet consists of a bunch of Boeing 737-200s, which are, by the way, older than AR's. A fleet upgrade is taking place at Aerolíneas, with 732s being replaced with 735s and the trusty 742s leaving for newer 744s.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
- LAN as a OneWorld member provides much better international connection/FF sharing opportunities.

Lan Argentina is not a Oneworld member. That is clearly stated at Oneworld's website.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
A few kayak.com searches show that fares are approximately equal.

Because domestic airfares in Argentina are regulated by the Government, through a metod called bandas tarifarias.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
Anecdotally, a quick story - One time I was on AR from USH-EZE (or so my boarding pass said) and the flight landed at AEP, without warning. After sitting in the back of the bus right next to the engine and no view, I deplaned out the rear exit of the MD onto the tarmac to realize in horror that I was at the wrong airport. I made my UA connection out of EZE by the skin of my teeth. I find it hard to believe that an airline that would do such a thing can make it nowadays.

Not that I don't believe you, but it sounds very strange to me. Argentines being a people that love to argue, how come nobody said anything?

Ezeiza is sometimes closed because of fog and smaller aircraft divert to Aeroparque, while bigger planes go to Córdoba. You should have gone immediately to any Aerolíneas counter at AEP to explain your situation.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
Does anyone know if the Grupo Marsans ownership group (including JK) are planning any infrastructure improvements or other ways to bring the airline up to modern standards? Or if they are planning on more of the same?

As I already said, a fleet update is currently going on, and the international network may be expanded on a near future.

But what do you mean by "modern standards"?  Confused

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
It seems to me that more of the same will mean the same fate as RG.

Sorry to seem a little bit rude here, but I'd like to ask you something. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Aerolíneas already faced a situation similar to Varig's in 2001 and they survived.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

I don't see any "aggresive" expansion at all from LAN Argentina.
I think you like LAN , and that's ok.It's your choice and taste. Check: www.airlinequality.com, and you'll see better comments about AR than LA.

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
wonder if the aggressive expansion of LAN Argentina will eventually see the demise of AR

The demise of AR?
So, do you think the expansion of Aerolineas del Sur will see the demise of LAN?
Just ridiculous.Aerolineas have the 80% of national flights.

And, if IB couldn't kill AR, well, I guess nobody can!  Wink LOL

USADreamliner  wave 


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 7):
Just ridiculous.Aerolineas have the 80% of national flights.

Make that 92%

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 7):
And, if IB couldn't kill AR, well, I guess nobody can! LOL

LOL Big grin  checkmark 

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 4):
AEP is the Domestic airport. If the flight was diverted to AEP for a reason, then you should have approached the AR counters and of course, AR would've hired a bus or a car to take you or all the connecting passengers.

And they did, as I noted in a subsequent post.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 4):
Have you ever flown 4M domestic?

Actually no, I made an assumption that domestic LAN Chile service was similar to LAN Argentina domestic. Apparently this is incorrect.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 4):
If you want to complain about the airports

I have no complaints about any airports in Argentina - I found them to be among the best in the world. (The taxes, on the other hand...  dollarsign   dollarsign  )

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Which routes did you fly Aerolíneas on, and what time was it when your flight took off?

With regards to the food, as I recall, I was on AEP-BRC (Bariloche) - about a 10:00 AM departure - and was served a ham sandwich. Maybe this is typical in Argentina, but I did not encounter that anywhere else in my travels in South America.

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Lan Argentina is not a Oneworld member.

So noted. See incorrect assumption above.

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Not that I don't believe you, but it sounds very strange to me. Argentines being a people that love to argue, how come nobody said anything?

Ezeiza is sometimes closed because of fog and smaller aircraft divert to Aeroparque, while bigger planes go to Córdoba. You should have gone immediately to any Aerolíneas counter at AEP to explain your situation.

I wasn't the only one who was angry about this. About a dozen stranded pax filled the office at AEP. There were no weather-related delays or diversions that day as I recall. It worked out in the end but it was extraordinarily stressful to have to deal with the issue, seeing as I was on the one daily flight on UA that usually flies full.

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Sorry to seem a little bit rude here, but I'd like to ask you something. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Aerolíneas already faced a situation similar to Varig's in 2001 and they survived

That doesn't mean it can't happen again. Sorry to seem a little bit rude here, but if you would kindly note the title of my thread, it is a question, not an assertion. I provided some examples I thought might support a "yes" answer. The thread asks the question of those of you who have more experience and local knowledge than me.

Trial by fire here, I see....


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 4):
Grupo Marsans owns a tad of JK.

A "tad" meaning Marsans SA [and primary shareholders, Pascual, Diaz Ferran and Mata] only own 5% of JK's share capital, while SK owns [directly and indirectly], the remaining 95%.

Last week, in Madrid, Marsans SA and the Argentine government [led by Min. Julio de Vido] signed an agreement to increase the government's stake in AR up to 20%:

- Argentina has up to year to purchase 5-20% of AR's share capital; max. price for 20% is USD 170 million, implying USD 850 for all of AR's equity

- Argentina will NOT have any veto rights over strategic decisions and change of control transactions; in other words NO "golden share" for the government

- However, the two Board Members of AR chosen by the Argentine government will have the right to OPPOSE the entry of AR into an air alliance, such as Star, oneworld, or Skyteam

- Most importantly, if the majority shareholders of AR decide to eliminate a loss-making cabotage route or reduce frequencies, then the Argentine government must pay AR a subsidy if it wishes AR to continue servicing the route

BTW, the text of the first agreement signed last Wednesday in Madrid did NOT reflect the terms that were agreed to and granted the Argentine government veto rights. Pascual and Diaz Ferran were shocked to learn this and complained DIRECTLY to Kirchner at a dinner that evening. 'K' promised to fix the problem and, on Friday, an adendum was added to the agreement specifically removing any veto rights from the government.

AR will most likely be floated in a local IPO sometime over the next 18 months.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Leaving aside AU's 732s which are not that old and in excellent condition, six of the 15 that AR operate are the same age as 4M's--remember it is the younger (1985-build) examples that AR is returning to Finova Capital, not the older (1980) ones. And lest we forget the beloved LV-WTX, who turns 35 in just over six months!  Silly

What my eyes have noticed however is that even AR's 1980-build 732s are in better condition--externally, at least--than 4M's, and could pass for a lot younger. Of the "oldies", I have flown on LV-ZTT, -ZYG and -ZYY; all were in great shape. Needless to say, AU's teenage LV-ZXV remains my favourite!  Smile

Saludos,

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Thread starter):
airline that serves you the same ham sandwich regardless of the time of departure.

Well, actually LAN has downgraded in flight service a lot, both in domestic and regional flights. Last flight to EZE a month ago was a shame, just a sandwich!

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
Airbuses? There is just one A320 flying for Lan Argentina (LV-BET),

YEah, but you know there are more coming. The point stands still, IMHO, there are more 320/318/319 coming, all brand new. AR is only getting some 735, although I don't know if there are more coming

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 7):
So, do you think the expansion of Aerolineas del Sur will see the demise of LAN?

Great comparison!


Well Zudnic, let me welcome you at first, and then tell you that I don't think LAN is even close of becoming a truly danger to AR, at least it won't for a long time. AR is a great airline, besides they have this "Orgullo Argentino" that LAN is just unable to get. Besides, ot could be terrible marketing to enter a country to make the national carrier collapse.

Argentina is doing well. AR as first airline works perfectly for me. As I don't see Virgin Blue jeopardizing QF nor, as said, Aerolineas del Sur against LAN.

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Stupid question here on my end: Is Southern Winds still around? I remember their check-in counter was right across from ours at concourse F at MIA. I don't work there anymore, but as I've not heard anything about them in a while, I was curious to see if they were still in business and if so, how they were doing.

By the way, I have a good friend who works for AR. Based solely on employee morale, she says AR is a much, much better place to work now and has come a long way after the IB debacle. I think AR is far from being an RG in the making and instead, would think that they're headed in the other direction, like a Lan Chile. Just a thought.


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6090 times:

Quoting Arcano (Reply 12):
YEah, but you know there are more coming. The point stands still, IMHO, there are more 320/318/319 coming, all brand new. AR is only getting some 735, although I don't know if there are more coming

Yes, there are coming for AR. They are going to replace the 737-200s in a 1 on 1 basis. There are 15 732s to replace left (in AR). And serveral more in AU, which, I think, will be replaced by more MD80s.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 12):
Argentina is doing well. AR as first airline works perfectly for me. As I don't see Virgin Blue jeopardizing QF nor, as said, Aerolineas del Sur against LAN.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 13):
Stupid question here on my end: Is Southern Winds still around? I remember their check-in counter was right across from ours at concourse F at MIA. I don't work there anymore, but as I've not heard anything about them in a while, I was curious to see if they were still in business and if so, how they were doing.

No, they are not. Ever since the deal was put off by the government, alledging drug transport - Southern Winds/A4 ceased to operate and most of their employees (which were ex-MJ/D7) went to LAN Argentina.

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 13):
By the way, I have a good friend who works for AR. Based solely on employee morale, she says AR is a much, much better place to work now and has come a long way after the IB debacle. I think AR is far from being an RG in the making and instead, would think that they're headed in the other direction, like a Lan Chile. Just a thought.

The only problem I don't like about LAN is the solely 'painted' presence unions have. I don't want AR's unions, acting up every time a board member farts and they didn't get to smell it. But I don't like either the passive attitude of LAN's unions in Chile. AR has improved, and let's hope it can go far, far from its 90s past.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

Welcome Zud!

As far as price is concerned I am sure that it varies from sector to sector.
AR is renowned in SYD for offering the lowest fares to South America. Because AR cannot depend on a great deal of feeder traffic at this end, they offer tickets that are about AU$500 cheaper than those offered by LA/QF/
Even now they are offering a 'you fly for $1900, second person for half the price'.
Every time I fly AR to South America, you'd be surprised at the number of Chileans on board that would rather transit in EZE and save $500 each on their way to SCL!

Even though K may not have the 'golden share' of AR, having them as a major share holder will help them a lot. (approving the balances and so forth)
LA have a ways to go in order to demise AR/AU in any way!!


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
No, they are not. Ever since the deal was put off by the government, alledging drug transport - Southern Winds/A4 ceased to operate and most of their employees (which were ex-MJ/D7) went to LAN Argentina.

Thanks for the response!  Smile


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

Correction:
Just saw an add in the paper where they are offering return fares from AUS$1599 return to EZE, SCL or MVD !!

WOW!


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

Concerning 4M and OneWorld, I can definitely confirm one can save LANPASS kilometers on 4M routes.
For foreigners there is a little trick, when booking online one needs to select the country of residence, which will lead to the higher "K" fare (paid in USD). You can try to be tricksy and opt for the "Argentinian" fare, but they make you pay the difference at check-in if you can't present an Argentinian passport. The K fare allows 100% LANPASS accumulation.
However, if you go to a LAN office you can book the Y fare, which is usually (not always) the same as the K fare (though paid in ARS) but allows 150% LANPASS accumulation  Smile
I've flown both AR and 4M -I've said this before on A.net- but I definately prefer LAN over Aerolineas, due to:
LANPASS accumulation
Extended webservices (buy, pay, check in, seat-selection)
Better inflight service

I really don't get the point when people start to argue that AR has "newer" planes then 4M and therefore is better, I couldn't care less, what matters is the seat-pitch. Sure, I'd choose the MD-80 over any 737-200, but I'd choose the A320 over the MD-80 any time as well.
Unfortunately the 4M A320 seems to be impossible to board, I've tried recently on AEP-BRC after the COR-AEP deception (the A320 went MX one dat after entering service) but I ended up in an 737-200 again  Sad


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 18):
Extended webservices (buy, pay, check in, seat-selection)

Everything you mention here, is available to do in AR's website. The website is: http://www.aerolineas.com/

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 18):
Better inflight service

That depends on the flight and the crew. I've had lots of good flights with AR, I've had my share of bad ones - but certainly all of the flights I've had with LA were bad. (I haven't flown them (LA) in a long time and haven't flown LA as much as I've flown AR. I've neither flown 4M).

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 18):
I really don't get the point when people start to argue that AR has "newer" planes then 4M and therefore is better, I couldn't care less, what matters is the seat-pitch. Sure, I'd choose the MD-80 over any 737-200, but I'd choose the A320 over the MD-80 any time as well.

Nobody ever stated that. AR's fleet age is among the oldest in Latin America because of the 732s they operate. However, stating that LAN Argentina (not LAN Chile or LAN Perú) has a newer fleet is wrong, and that is why the 735/732s and MD80s against the 732s and 1 A320.

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 18):
For foreigners there is a little trick, when booking online one needs to select the country of residence, which will lead to the higher "K" fare (paid in USD). You can try to be tricksy and opt for the "Argentinian" fare, but they make you pay the difference at check-in if you can't present an Argentinian passport. The K fare allows 100% LANPASS accumulation.
However, if you go to a LAN office you can book the Y fare, which is usually (not always) the same as the K fare (though paid in ARS) but allows 150% LANPASS accumulation

Let me remind you that the 'K' fare you are talking about was passed under Eduardo Duhalde's interim presidency. 'K' has nothing to do with, yet, he refuses to add another item to the inflation list that he's trying desperately to control.

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 16):
Thanks for the response!

My pleasure - so that you know, they haven't officially gone under, but their two planes are grounded and will never fly the skies again. They have no planes, and those two, because of the legal processes are unable to fly (and they've got very few remaining cycles).

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 9):

I wasn't the only one who was angry about this. About a dozen stranded pax filled the office at AEP. There were no weather-related delays or diversions that day as I recall. It worked out in the end but it was extraordinarily stressful to have to deal with the issue, seeing as I was on the one daily flight on UA that usually flies full.

Yes, I can imagine how stressful it was. May I ask if they gave a reason for the divertion?

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 9):
That doesn't mean it can't happen again.

But is is not likely on a near future.

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 9):
Sorry to seem a little bit rude here, but if you would kindly note the title of my thread, it is a question, not an assertion. I provided some examples I thought might support a "yes" answer. The thread asks the question of those of you who have more experience and local knowledge than me.

You don't seem rude at all. But usually an airline's faith goes far beyond in-flight service and old planes. I've had some excellent flights with United and it didn't keep them away of filling in for Chapter 11.

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 9):
Trial by fire here, I see....

That's what discussion fora are for, don't you think?

Quoting Arcano (Reply 12):

YEah, but you know there are more coming. The point stands still, IMHO, there are more 320/318/319 coming, all brand new. AR is only getting some 735, although I don't know if there are more coming

Lan Argentina was supposed to start bringing A320s by June 2005. It took them exactly one year more than planned. The same happened with the Ezeiza-Miami route, which was even bookeable through Lan.com last December, and thus far nothing has been heard about the 767s.

Kindly note that Lan Argentina's (currently) only A320 is not brand new. It flew for a couple of years with Lan Perú as VP-BCS and CC-COO.

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 15):
Every time I fly AR to South America, you'd be surprised at the number of Chileans on board that would rather transit in EZE and save $500 each on their way to SCL!

The same happened when I went to Australia. Buenos Aires pax were actually a minority, with the rest coming all the way from Chile, Peru and mostly Brazil.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2006-06-27 21:47:15]


Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
Everything you mention here, is available to do in AR's website. The website is: http://www.aerolineas.com/

You obviously haven't tried this yourself, because you would know you cannot pay online thru AR.
You can book online and then you need to go to an Aerolineas Argentinas office within 24 hours in order to pay for your reservation, otherwise it will be lost. Obviously, this makes a huge difference, when you're in their office anyway you could do the whole process at once. Unfortunately, there tends to be a healthy cue at AR offices.
Not to bash AR, I like them for what they do, and I certainly do not want to say one should avoid AR.

The whole point about fleet age comparison is useless, inflight comfort is what counts to me. Concerning this comfort, my argument made above still holds(A320 over MD80 over 732).

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
Let me remind you that the 'K' fare you are talking about was passed under Eduardo Duhalde's interim presidency. 'K' has nothing to do with, yet, he refuses to add another item to the inflation list that he's trying desperately to control.

Sorry, I refer to a fare that is called "K" by 4M, this wasn't meant to refer in any way to Nestor, I'm really sorry about that. The "K" fare is just the "Y" fare on LAN, except paid in USD dollars, and qualifies for 100% LANPASS accumulation instead of 150% LANPASS accumulation (on LAN Argentina (4M)).


User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 21):
You can book online and then you need to go to an Aerolineas Argentinas office within 24 hours in order to pay for your reservation, otherwise it will be lost.

You can also call their call centre and pay with your credit card. I did this a couple of times, and it worked perfectly. In the case of your flight not being e-ticket candidate, they will deliver it to your place by mail.  Smile

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5755 times:
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Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 15):
AR is renowned in SYD for offering the lowest fares to South America.

And they are renowned for the lowest amount of frequencies on the Australia-South America sector. Alot of people also take LA over AR because LA offer PTV's in economy. I know alot of people think that this is not a necesity but most New Zealanders and Australians would think differently seen as nearly all of our flights are long-haul. Also, AR does fly the older 342's on the route compared to LA's 343's.

However, I see that AR is finally allowing bookings for AKL-Europe! Because they do and LA don't at the moment, I think I will fly AR to MAD on them in the next couple of months.

I do not think that LAN Argentina will make AR collapse. AR is much too strong for that. I would think that it could be the other way around.


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
I don't like either the passive attitude of LAN's unions in Chile

Although unions tradition is general Argentine history is much stronger than Chile's, unions become headaches sometimes for LAN, specially when it comes to pilot's unions ans their incomes...

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 15):
Every time I fly AR to South America, you'd be surprised at the number of Chileans on board that would rather transit in EZE and save $500 each on their way to SCL!

Indeed, AR is widely know as a very good deal for flying to Australia. When I worked for Australian government, I always looked for AR to be part of our exhibitions, as I consider it wasn't enough to try to promote a destination and speak of one airline only. I always had great experience working with AR people in Chile, unlike LA and QF (specially) that always have ridiculous demands...
You should have looked QF's people faces when they watches AR people attending exhibitions...

Quoting Marambio (Reply 20):
only A320 is not brand new

It is in LAN network. LAN Chile has some older 320s, as one coming from Nikki that I flew not long ago and you could totally tell the difference

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 23):
And they are renowned for the lowest amount of frequencies on the Australia-South America sector. Alot .... Also, AR does fly the older 342's on the route compared to LA's 343's

Indeed, LAN is adding the 6th frequency this june! It really amazes me to realize the is demand for filling a 340 almost daily from SCL to Oceania...
Do you really think that people can tell the difference between a 343 and a 342. I flew a JJ A332 last week and there is actually no real difference with a 343 when inside.

PTVs could be, but how many people realize about PTVs while making reservations? Is that known that LA340s are PTV VOD equipped?

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
25 AR385 : AR is a serious airline. There should have been a reason for the diversion, they might not have told the passengers, but, are you sure what you are s
26 Post contains images MD11junkie : The search engine is the best friend you can have, before talking without knowing what you are talking about. Search, then talk. The lousy experience
27 Zudnic : A reason may have been announced, but as I was in the last row of the MD right next to the engine, it completely drowned out all cabin announcements
28 AR385 : Certainly I can talk whenever I want, not when you tell men on a whim. Yours has been a personal experience without proof. I have been flying LAN sin
29 Post contains images MD11junkie : Nope, I'd expect what I've paid for. Not cold food. But I certainly don't have to prove anything to you. However, you probably want a recording of th
30 AR385 : No, don't bother, I do not want all that information. I simply do not believe you. And yes, I cannot give you proof that my flights with them have be
31 Ghost77 : Too early to speak... but in 5 years, possibly, AR will be suffering... truth, LA took hundred years to introduce the 1st A320, but there will be more
32 LVZXV : You're missing something: Leasing costs. An A320 might save in fuel, but its leasing costs are astronomical for most Argentine carriers, and will con
33 Post contains images SABE : For what it's worth, I've flown tens of segments with LA (both within Chile and between Chile and Argentina) and their service has always been excelle
34 Ghost77 : Indeed! Quiet true! But isn't LanArg, or LAN as a whole buying Airbus? Or are they leasing? I simply don't get it! 6A charges the exact same fares MX
35 LVZXV : The problem is the Government-dictated bandas tarifarias. Fares are low to begin with (at an operational level) so revenues in ARS and leasing costs
36 Ghost77 : Ahhh esas bandas tarifarias! Is there a way that can change in the near future? Will government keep them? Is this killing the airlines? Or not exactl
37 LVZXV : Yes (to all of the above). Saludos, ZXV
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