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What Do You Think Of Varig Situation?  
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5935 times:

What do you think of Brazilian VARIG situation? What do you think should be done?

My opinion...
I think the company really needs to be sold for VARIG LOG (owned by Volo Group). With this, a cash injection would be done, making possible the continuation of operations. Maybe VARIG should get some of ex-TAM F-100 to supply it's lack of planes temporarily.
Some other Star Alliance companies could help the Brazilan, by either leasing some old airplanes temporarily or intermediating negociations with Leasing Companies.
To conclude, the only way of VARIG star making a positove money generation, so then, it would be possible to restar growing.


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43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

I think that it is to late to save the Varig as we know it right now.

They are to deep in to dept, the owners of their airplanes can't wait to take them back and remarket them to a more stable client. Other Brazilian airlines like TAM an GOL can do the same thing as Varig much more efficient right now so, although it sounds a bit cruel when thinking about their employees, Varig has lost its rationale.

I think other Star members have, with all respect, better things to do then to save Varig, although they will feel it when Varig collapses.

Quoting Thering (Thread starter):
To conclude, the only way of VARIG star making a positove money generation, so then, it would be possible to restar growing

I know you are new, but try using the 'check spelling' button on top of the post frame, it really works and makes your posts easier to understand.

[Edited 2006-06-26 22:09:01]


Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 1):
I think other Star members have, with all respect, better things to do then to save Varig, although they will feel it when Varig collapses.

If RG collapses, Star Alliance will loose their better partener on Latin America, a growing market!!



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User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 2):
If RG collapses, Star Alliance will loose their better partener on Latin America, a growing market!!

As a Star member, you have to ask yourself whether you want a partner which over the years has gained a reputation for bad and inconsistent service, not to speak about Varig's chronic lack of money and constant danger of collapse.

Quoting Thering (Reply 2):
partener

'Check Spelling'



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5850 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 3):
constant danger of collapse.



Quoting MaartenV (Reply 3):
inconsistent service

Surely now Varig lives a "every-day danger of collapse", but that's not a comum situation, on normal times, VARIG has good operation and is not that inconsistent!

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 3):
'Check Spelling'

sorry, just a typing error.



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User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 4):
Surely now Varig lives a "every-day danger of collapse", but that's not a comum situation, on normal times, VARIG has good operation and is not that inconsistent!

They have been in a bad shape for the last couple of years.

Quoting Thering (Reply 4):
comum



Quoting Thering (Reply 4):
sorry, just a typing error.

Yes, I know, that's why they invented the 'Check Spelling' button.



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 5):
They have been in a bad shape for the last couple of years.

Yes but in 2004/2005 RG seemed to bee improving their economic and operatuonal issues. They brought some 734, 4 ex-Iberia 752 for high demand domestic routes and some latin america ones, they reequiped the long-run fleet with 4 772ER anda 2 ex-BA 772. I realy thought 2 years ago that they were maybe starting to go on the right way, my mistake!! But they tryed, the main problem a insist, are the employees, that doesn't understand the situation!



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User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5815 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 1):
I know you are new, but try using the 'check spelling' button on top of the post frame, it really works and makes your posts easier to understand.

Dude, six words into your post and you’ve misspelled "too".

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 1):
I think that it is to late to save the Varig as we know it right now.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

It's just business. Some poorly run companies lose, some better run companies succeed. Companies shouldn't be kept on artificial life support just because they employ a lot of people. Life has no guarantees for people. They'll have to find other jobs and likely will with the void left by VARIG. A loss of an airline is certainly nothing to get emotional about. Most Brazilians are likely more concerned about how well (or poorly) Ghana can play soccer than the survival of VARIG.

User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 7):
Dude, six words into your post and you've misspelled "too".

Confusing 'to' with 'too' is different then typing comun instead of common, since comun will be corrected by the check spelling function and to won't, since it is spelled correctly.

English is not my first language, that is why I like and use the check spelling function as much as I can!



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 9):
English is not my first language, that is why I like and use the check spelling function as much as I can!

Ok, never mind! But let's star to worry more about civil aviation and less about grammatic ok?! hehe

What do you think about RG getting some of TAM's in ground F100 to solve a bit of RG lack of airplanes?



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User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 10):
What do you think about RG getting some of TAM's in ground F100 to solve a bit of RG lack of airplanes?

I don't know how many are available at this moment and who owns them.

It could be a temporary solution to the problem but only if they are cheap, available, and not in need of a major overhaul.



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 9):
English is not my first language, that is why I like and use the check spelling function as much as I can!

I understand.
English wasn’t my first language either. But the guy joined Anet just a few hours ago. How about cutting him some slack? I think we all understood him.

In any event.

Welcome aboard Thering!


User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 12):
Welcome aboard Thering!

Tank you 102IAHexpress!!

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 11):
don't know how many are available at this moment and who owns them.

I think there must be something around 10 airplanes there. I think they are ILFC's airplanes, but i'm not sure. The F100 is a good plane, very adaptable to very short, short a even medium runs. TAM's ones are no old, there is no one older than 1992.! Don,t think that the leasing cost of it would be high, since it's been there waiting for a new owner for a couple of years. TAM's ones are no old, there is no one older than 1992.



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User currently offlineExpress1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5698 times:

A Varig B777 flt was in LHR today,and here's me thinking thay finished friday just gone?

regrds
dave  chat 


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 10):
What do you think about RG getting some of TAM's in ground F100 to solve a bit of RG lack of airplanes?



Quoting MaartenV (Reply 11):
I don't know how many are available at this moment and who owns them.



Quoting Thering (Reply 13):
I think there must be something around 10 airplanes there.

No chance, TAM will keep operating 22 F100's till 2010.

Wilem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 15):
No chance, TAM will keep operating 22 F100's till 2010.

TAM operates now 25 F100s, and I don't think they will operate 22 till 2010, they are already studying the renovate of the F100 fleet, or with A318 or EMB 190/195!
And yes, there mus be around 10 there, look:
TAM used to operate 49 F100s at the same time when started to replace them, the still operate 25, so the rest, 24, must have like half in Brazil waiting for a owner, some of them are in Africa, and some are in USA deserts.



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User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 16):
TAM operates now 25 F100s, and I don't think they will operate 22 till 2010, they are already studying the renovate of the F100 fleet, or with A318 or EMB 190/195!

They will keep flying 22 F100's till 2010 at least, trust me.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 17):
They will keep flying 22 F100's till 2010 at least, trust me.

Why are you so sure about that? Have any good inside information?



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User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

Well in another thread it talks about GOL getting 101 738's. I put out the crazy idea of maybe them trying to take over the VARIG market up in nothern Brazil and trying to MIA. But could it also be because of GOL hopeing for a *A offer just in case VARIG goes out here soon? You were mentioning why *A would help out a carrier with bad service MaartenV

QXatFAT



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

Well let's say I have some inside info with who we have a contract or not.
Apart from that F100 upgrade programs never stopped and on one of them TAM is the initiator.

Willem



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 1):
I know you are new, but try using the 'check spelling' button on top of the post frame, it really works and makes your posts easier to understand.



Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 12):
But the guy joined Anet just a few hours ago. How about cutting him some slack? I think we all understood him.

I was nice Smile

The thing is that he made a couple of mistakes which could be easily corrected by the spelling check function and therefore I advised him to use it in the future.

But enough about that Smile

According to their website, TAM operates a fleet of 20 F100s at this moment and I guess with a possible collapse of Varig, they will probably keep them in their fleet.

Are their any other F100s available at this moment?

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 17):
They will keep flying 22 F100's till 2010 at least, trust me.

2010 is 'only' 4 years ago and the fact that they are studying on a replacement right now doesn't mean they'll be gone within a year. It could very well be that the order the EMB190 or A318 next year and keep the last F100 until 2010.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 19):
Well in another thread it talks about GOL getting 101 738's. I put out the crazy idea of maybe them trying to take over the VARIG market up in nothern Brazil and trying to MIA. But could it also be because of GOL hopeing for a *A offer just in case VARIG goes out here soon? You were mentioning why *A would help out a carrier with bad service MaartenV

I think GOL could be an option for Star, but they don't have any long-haul flights and as far as I know they operate planes in an all economy configuration, something premium start fliers won't like.

I read somewhere in another thread that Skyteam was looking at GOL as a possible option but wouldn't that result in the same problems?



Its all about supply and demand...
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 21):

Yes! there are some on ground in TAM maintenance centre in São Carlos!
I like this plane, like the 3x2 configuration and think it would be usefull for RG.



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User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

Varig Log has just deposited US$ 20M in one of Varig's accounts to pay for operations tomorrow. This is reportedly the first step towards acquisition - the bankruptcy judge, mr. Ayoub, should have a final answer about Varig Log taking over RG by the end of the week.


Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineMaartenV From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 23):
Varig Log has just deposited US$ 20M in one of Varig's accounts to pay for operations tomorrow. This is reportedly the first step towards acquisition - the bankruptcy judge, mr. Ayoub, should have a final answer about Varig Log taking over RG by the end of the week.

I don't know how much money VarigLog has available but I'm afraid that Varig will drag them in to the grave with them...



Its all about supply and demand...
25 Post contains images QXatFAT : Well what are the configurations of the 737's on order? They could be making a slow approach to the international scene with the USA. I would hope *A
26 Nzrich : Yes well if thats the case then you may as well close down all the major American Airlines that have been or are now in chapter 11 bankruptcy!!!! As
27 ScottB : But adding a fleet type which has never been operated by VARIG (so no maintenance expertise, spare parts, type-rated pilots, etc.) would be prohibiti
28 Thering : VARIG could use TAM's São Carlos maintence Center, one of the most modern in the world! TAM also have F100 simulatores!
29 Antiuser : But TAM wouldn't let them use the maintenance centre and the simulators for free - and RG has no money.
30 Thering : Surely not for free! But it's just a metter of talking. I'm not talking about RG getting the F100 now, don't having money, wouldn't be possible! My i
31 Antiuser : I think it'd be much easier for them to get 737s instead of F100s - they already have 737-rated pilots and a 737 sim at the GIG facility. But then ag
32 Thering : Maybe, but I see the F100 possibility because they are already here, and would be esier if TAM re-lease it to RG. Considering that RG have a lack of
33 ScottB : But why on earth would it make sense for TAM to assist the operations of a direct competitor? They'd be so much better off (much, much better than th
34 Thering : Your thought is rigth! But, if you lived in Brazil, you would know that it's all a matter of talks between TAM and the govern! TAM by "helping" (they
35 FiveMileFinal : Totally off-topic, but I dig your username.
36 AwysBSB : In my opinion, Varig should start to follow the hub-and-spoke model, by settling at most 4 hubs in Brazil, one in each region of the country. After th
37 Antiuser : I think 4 hubs might be a bit too much. Maybe 3 would be ok... GRU, GIG and BSB or REC, maybe? As far as I know, JFK and MXP were discontinued in the
38 Post contains images AwysBSB : Well, I think Brazil is big… I would say POA, GIG, REC & MAO… leave GRU and BSB to competing carriers Flights to those destinations continues bei
39 Thering : Following hub-and-spoke model wouldn't be bad for RG. GRU/GIG (South/Southest Hub) Being the main Hub, with fligths for all Brazil, South America, No
40 AMSSFO : All of the F100s TAM returned to the lessor quickly found a new operator. Only one or two that were recently returned to the lessor, might still be w
41 Antiuser : It is surely big, but is there enough demand for a hub in, say, MAO or BEL? Cargo is huge up there with the Zona Franca and all, but there doesn't se
42 QXatFAT : I would say still doing GRU is a good one. Then possibly BSB and deffinatly MAO. MAO can hit Central America and MIA and I think that a LAX flight wo
43 Thering : MAO has very good cargo demand! Varig Log, Brasmex, Beta, Skymaster, Lan Cargo, Taf Cargo and other airlines operate there, mainly on GIG/GRU/BSB/MAO
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