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Airbus Closes In On A330F Launch  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7025 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12055 times:

Airbus is poised to begin its assault on the mid-size long-range freighter market, as it finalises long-held plans to launch a freighter version of the A330-200 widebody.

Airbus chief operating officer customers John Leahy says there is strong demand in the sector, and does not rule out a programme launch at next month’s Farnborough air show.

The 64t payload A330-200F would fill the void left by the A300-600F that will cease production in July next year. The A330 will utilise the same 2.6 x 3.6m (8.5 x 11.8ft) cargo door as the A300-600, installed in the forward fuselage. The aircraft is set to enter production in the second half of 2009.

The new freighter will be able to carry its 64t payload over a distance of 7,400km (4,000nm) and typically accommodate up to 22 standard 96 x 125in (243 x 318cm) pallets side by side – two more than the shorter-range A300-600F. Configured to accommodate pallets that could interline with the main deck of the A380 Freighter without being rebuilt, the A330 would be able to carry 16 96 x 96 x 125in pallets.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...bus+closes+in+on+A330F+launch.html


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12055 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
shorter-range A300-600F

The A300-600F is a good freigther plane, but had this problem of having porr range, with this new A330F, this problem will be solved by a similar-sized airplane! Good thougth!



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12014 times:

Great news for Airbus! This should keep the A330 line open for quite some time.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11995 times:

A nice extension of an already good selling airplane. But what would happen if Boeing added a 787-F to the competition mix?


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineRpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
if Boeing added a 787-F to the competition mix?

I'm far from an expert, but I highly doubt that Boeing will roll out the 787-F before a certain time. It have to handle an amazing backlog for the PAX version and probably need to maximize the ROI before the launch of a F version. Plus, it will be a pretty expensive aircraft to buy. At that time, one can figure that the A330 will be somewhat cheaper!

Regards,
Raphael


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

Have Boeing been considering a B787F?
If that's done then the A330F could be less successfull unless the extra weight needed for strenghtening a freighter would make the B787 unfit for such a role!?!
But I think we are likely to see an B787F sooner or later.


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

Don't forget the 777F although it is bigger


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11899 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 6):
Don't forget the 777F although it is bigger

Yes, maybe Fedex could be a lauch client for the 777F, in order to replace their DC-10F and MD-11F!



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7025 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11899 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
But what would happen if Boeing added a 787-F to the competition mix?

Boeing won�t do that. They have the 777F and the 747-8F for long haul.
There plenty of 767 that can be rebuild to freighters as well. No need for the 787 for now.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11823 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
Have Boeing been considering a B787F?

Yes, but it won't happen soon. The B787F will be the size of a B787-8 but with a MTOW around 620,000 lbs. This will require the addition of a 2-wheel center bogey and a lot of structural reinforcement that will be developed first for the B787-9ER and B787-10ER. The B787F will also get different wingtip extensions optimized more for climb and less for cruise compared to the passenger models (other than the B787-3). I don't think EIS will be before 2015.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11823 times:

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 4):
I'm far from an expert, but I highly doubt that Boeing will roll out the 787-F before a certain time. It have to handle an amazing backlog for the PAX version and probably need to maximize the ROI before the launch of a F version. Plus, it will be a pretty expensive aircraft to buy. At that time, one can figure that the A330 will be somewhat cheaper!



Quoting Columba (Reply 8):
Boeing won�t do that. They have the 777F and the 747-8F for long haul.
There plenty of 767 that can be rebuild to freighters as well. No need for the 787 for now.

The only reason I can see them putting one out faster is if they open a 2nd manufacturing line and they offering a 787 based tanker to the USAF.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 911 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 4):
Plus, it will be a pretty expensive aircraft to buy.

The unit price of a 787 is quite reasonable for a new-build aircraft. It wouldn't be any different than a new-build A330 or 767 freighter.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11690 times:

Very interesting news. That plane is important for Airbus. There should be enough demand from airlines that don't need a large freighter such as the 777F, or even 747F. This will also keep the A330/340 line longer in operation, which is needed when the A350 will be postponed until 2012.

Thans for the link Columba.


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2703 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Good to finally see this aircraft moving forward. Just like the 777F, I am actually quite surprised about how long it has taken to bring these respective aircraft to market. I honestly expected both aircraft to be out 3-4 years ago.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
But what would happen if Boeing added a 787-F to the competition mix?

Not going to happen for quite some time, actually.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
Have Boeing been considering a B787F?

It will always be a possibility, but there are no serious plans to launch at this point in time.

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 4):
Plus, it will be a pretty expensive aircraft to buy.

Actually, no it wouldn't. The way Boeing is going about the 787 is keeping unit costs low for the amount of improvement from current generations. One can buy a 787 for less than an A330, at list price anyway. . .  Wink

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11355 times:

I don't think that a 787 friegher can be alligned to a bid for the USAF Tanker contract as Boeing have said that they cannot cut holes in the 787's fusealage. I reckon this is a good move by Airbus - it will keep the line open for many years after the pax version is replaced by the A350 + A370 - remember how long the A300 line stayed open as freignter only.

User currently offlineRpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11309 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 11):
It wouldn't be any different than a new-build A330



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
One can buy a 787 for less than an A330, at list price anyway

Well, that's right now. But with the begining of production in 2009, I figure that price will go down. There will also be as stated tons of 767 on the market to convert. It will drive down the price.

Last but not least, as Hamlet69 said, we are talking about list price!

Regards,
Raphael


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11268 times:

The launch of the A332F could not have come at a better time. While the A330 family is still selling strong this fact will not remain for many years to come. With the introduction of the A332F, the A330/A340 will have yet another breath of life in it.

It will be interesting to see if Airbus do in fact launch the A332F at Farnborough. One can also imagine who in fact will be likely candidates?

FedEx
UPS
Emirates
Qatar

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11241 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
It will be interesting to see if Airbus do in fact launch the A332F at Farnborough. One can also imagine who in fact will be likely candidates?

The general cargo carriers may also be interested. It looks to be a good performer with a nice niche. This should help keep the A330/A340 line open a few more years.


User currently offlineEclipz From France, joined Jun 2006, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11201 times:

Well, it seems to be an excellent news... hope this plane will find a market and know a calm development...

Do you think the A332F can be used in combination with the 777F ?

Vincent


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4150 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
It will be interesting to see if Airbus do in fact launch the A332F at Farnborough. One can also imagine who in fact will be likely candidates?

IIRC Gemini Air Cargo had been rumoured to be heavily interested in an A330-200F. Rumours were talking about 4+6 A330-200F to be ordered.



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11170 times:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00006772.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00006801.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00005211.jpg

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4975 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11061 times:

Quoting Thering (Reply 7):
Yes, maybe Fedex could be a lauch client for the 777F, in order to replace their DC-10F and MD-11F!

Not going to happen any time soon, for two reasons:

-The 777F is too much aircraft to replace the FedEx DC-10s;
-FedEx is still adding more DC-10s and MD-11s, and converting the DC-10 to MD-10 standard, indicating that they intend on keeping them around for a long time.

I can see them adding the A330, as an addition to the DC-10/MD-11 fleet, and for growth, seeing hw scarce the the trijets are to come by.


User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11033 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Airbus is poised to begin its assault on the mid-size long-range freighter market, as it finalises long-held plans to launch a freighter version of the A330-200 widebody.

Sorry if I missed it, but who is the launch customer for the 330F?



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11012 times:

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 22):
Sorry if I missed it, but who is the launch customer for the 330F?

We don't know yet but I'd hazard a gues we'll find out shortly.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10949 times:

Nice to see more Freighters with Airbus.
Pity theres no A320 Freighters.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Flying-Tiger : Both the A320 and A321 will be offered as freighters, the MoU with Irkutsk (Russia) for conversion has been signed during the ILA. Target EIS of conv
26 Post contains links Scbriml : There will be soon. Airbus has signed an MOU with a Russian company for conversion work. Sorry, don't have all the details to hand. Correction, there
27 OldAeroGuy : Strange, I thought the 787 had these outlandish things called "Doors" and "Windows" that look like they make holes in the fuselage.
28 Trex8 : I'd bet on UPS to replace their DC8s and Dc10s. A bunch of Chinese/Taiwanese and other Asian carriers who already operate the A330.
29 Scouseflyer : I mean big holes, but there was some speculation on here that this was a bargining tactic by Boeing who wanted the USAF to buy the 767 rather than th
30 OldAeroGuy : Why would any hole for a tanker need to be bigger than a lower lobe cargo door? Stick to the "Boeing is pushing the 767" story,
31 Scouseflyer : Don't know, just working from Memory, apologies if I've got it wrong!
32 Thering : Always remember that UPS have a lot of (60 if i'm not wrong) A300-600F in order, this can make the A300F program stay on for some more years.
33 Columba : Most of these were converted into A380 orders.
34 Zvezda : ... and may yet get converted to A330F orders.
35 Post contains images Johnny : In the short-term I see FedEx as the biggest likely customer for the A332F. But in the longer term nearly all A330/340-operator which intends to fly c
36 Thering : Most of? I think only a few were converted!
37 Lumberton : So around 180-200 conversions of existing airframes....Wonder if they'll contract out this work like Boeing does on the 767s? IIRC, there was another
38 Scorpio : Orders for 37 A300s were converted into 10 A380 orders. UPS only has four or five A300s left on order.
39 Post contains images Qantas744ER : That would be a great replacemnt for the MD-11F, but im guessing after Fedex just got some MD-11`s again this could take a little longer. And their e
40 Scouseflyer : I can't see the DC10s, MD10s and MD11s falling out of freight use soon - there's still plenty of DC8s and 727s hauling boxes!
41 DfwRevolution : In terms of volume, the 777F is a very reasonable replacement for the MD-11 and DC-10. The A332 would be a substantial decrease in cargo volume. The
42 Travelin man : I think this will be a very successful aircraft for Airbus. The A300 has been very well received as a cargo aircraft, and this one will too. Just as m
43 Scouseflyer : Seeing as many older (and thus less fuel efficient) planes are still flying with freight operators (DC8s etc) maybe a discount A346 freighter would al
44 HAWK21M : Thats Interesting news.Would give a Challenge to the B737-700C. regds MEL
45 ANITIX87 : Since the A332F offers no additional space than the A300F, why not use the A333 as a base? Is the extra weight this would lead to that huge a problem?
46 Trex8 : its not so much big big holes per se which is a problem, what Boeing said early on was that it wasn't likely a special military version of the 787 wo
47 KC135TopBoom : If they won't get the B-777F, why would they get the A-330F? I agree with you on the B-777F, but it seems to me they won't buy the A-330F (at least f
48 Post contains images AutoThrust : Way to go Airbus! I cant wait to see some A330F they sure will look amazing. I have only concerns about how much work Airbus has to invest in the A330
49 Scorpio : Several reasons: -As I said before, the 777F is 'too much aircraft' for them. It's a plane designed to carry a very heavy load over a very long dista
50 OldAeroGuy : But the fuselage cutout is no bigger than a large cargo door.
51 A342 : In fact, A320F will compete with 734F, but the A321F will partly compete with the 757F. Currently, there's no competitor to the 733F. But somewhere I
52 Zvezda : Great idea! I never thought of that. What about the early B777-200s (non-ER)? Do they have enough payload/range performance to be interesting to smal
53 Post contains images Johnny : @ ZVEZDA Why should B777-200A be available for conversions earlier than B777-200ER ? They are only 11 years old and are still as economical to ops as
54 Zvezda : Let me phrase it differently. Which costs more to buy now on the used market? Which will first be affordable for freighter conversion?
55 DfwRevolution : The 772A was available before the 772ER, so it is naturally older and more likely to be retired from passenger service sooner. Yes, but they lack the
56 Zvezda : SQ had planned to start retiring their B777-200ERs in 2009, but that plan may have changed since they won't start taking delivery of the B787-9s (whi
57 B747_A340 : I can see BR ordering them. They are big on cargo and already operate the passenger version of the aircraft. They could use it to expand and/or replac
58 DfwRevolution : BR seems like a very reasonable guess. I could also see AF/KL and maybe LH interested to a degree. There's a lot of new freighter types coming into t
59 MCOflyer : I'll take BR and NW. TNT is also a good bet too. I could NW ordering some to replace older A300 and A310. NW needs a freighter besides the 742F and th
60 DfwRevolution : (2) ARAMCO Associated Company (1) Sonair Total - 3 units
61 HAWK21M : Why has no more Freighter operators ordered it.Is a converted Freighter cheaper the Reason. regds MEL
62 Scorpio : It's also a pretty expensive plane. FX doesn't need more planes in that category for long-haul flights because of the A380s freeing up the MD-11s. Fr
63 A342 : Yes. See here:
64 RichardPrice : The Airbus O&D spreadsheet shows 821 orders for the A300/A310 with 806 deliveries to end of May 2006. Thats 15 outstanding orders to be filled, consi
65 LY777 : Sorry but Airbus was also"about to launch" the A330F in 2001
66 DeltaDC9 : Yes it could have come at a better time. Airbus has ceded 8-% of the freighter market to Boeing. If anyone could explain why they have ignored this m
67 WINGS : I would guess it was for the fact that the A330/A340 line was rather filled up. Now that the A350/A370/B787 is on the horizon, they are taking necess
68 Post contains images DfwRevolution : I'm not saying they need the 777. I am saying that your anaylsis of whether the 777 (either 777F or SF) would fit into FX fleet is just wrong. They'r
69 Scorpio : Yes. If not, please show me one cancelled order that didn't show up on their spreadsheet. If you're going to be throwing accusations around, be prepa
70 DeltaDC9 : Exactly how long did it take to eliminate the dozens of UPS A-300 orders AFTER the UPS A-380 orders were showing? There is your answer.
71 WINGS : Well Scorpio, I have to agree with Dfwrevolution. The order that pops up into my mind as not yet cancelled by Airbus are those A346 for Air Canada. I
72 RichardPrice : Have they actually been cancelled yet, or have AC just announced that they will be?
73 Post contains links and images Manni : The A380F order for UPS was firmed up 6 months ago and added to Airbus orders sheet. http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...eases_items/12_13_05_UPS_
74 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : If only they were that particular about orders shown on the site.
75 Scorpio : The very same day. Indeed. That's because the order wasn't officially cancelled. No cancellation = order still on the books. Next?
76 Hamlet69 : All Nippon Airways - 5 A340-300 Air Inter Europe - 8 A330-300 Swiss Air Lines - 3 A340-300 All cancelled by the airline well before Airbus cleaned th
77 Post contains images Johnny : @ Hamlet69 -What is your problem with the Air Inter A330s ? AFAIK they were delivered, or am i wrong? -The AC A346 are not cx so far.Ok, only a formal
78 Hamlet69 : Air Inter originally ordered 12 A330-300's, and were, in fact, the first airline to receive any A330. Of those 12, 4 were delivered before the merger
79 Scorpio : None of these were cancelled by the airlines in question before Airbus cleaned them off the books. Sure, cancellations were announced before they wer
80 Trex8 : as a diehard 747 fan I just can't wait till I see those Phillipine 744s still on Boeings order books flying!
81 WINGS : Doubt it very much. If you had said the B748i than yes that would be a possibility. I would lean towards an order for the A346 or B773ER. Regards, Wi
82 Post contains images Trex8 : I was being sarcastic about comments about how Airbus order books are so terribly cooked and inaccurate
83 Post contains images Scorpio : And I can't wait to see those Garuda 777s that have been on their books since 1996 flying over my head
84 Post contains images Scbriml : In the spirit of Wimbledon; 15-all. Trex8, I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason why Boeing is OK to leave orders like that on the books, but Airb
85 Post contains images Trex8 : the reality is probably that untill the manufacturer has a piece of paper from the airline specifically cancelling an order or if the terms of the ori
86 Legoguy : Im really sorry to go wayyyy off the topic here...but I have a question which I feel does not deserve its own thread. The question is...when measuring
87 RichardPrice : The most outwardly point of the wing, so the wingtips if they are further away from the centre than the base. This is why the A380 has wingtip gates
88 Legoguy : Thanks again Richard. So is it the same way legnth wise? If the top of the tail is further backwards than the tip of the fusalage...it is measured fr
89 RichardPrice : Yup, furthest point to furthest point.
90 Hamlet69 : Good for you. You will understand, of course, that I do as well. The difference is I don't like making excuses. And have either of those airlines ann
91 Scorpio : What's that supposed to mean? I state things the way they are, I'm sorry if you have problems with that. Has Iraqi Airways ever announced a cancellat
92 TrevD : Hiding behind seems more like it !! Frankly this is pretty lame reasoning. This isn't an issue of "paperwork", like there's some dim-witted contracts
93 Post contains images Scorpio : Who said anything about this being about a 'contract guy not doing his job properly'? Has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps, say Air Canada, has
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