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EasyJet To Israel In 2008  
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3164 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/731881.html

Quote:
The Tourism Ministry has begun discussions with the British low-cost airline easyJet in an effort to accelerate the firm's plans to operate flights to here, ministry director general Eli Cohen said yesterday.

"The low-cost airline easyJet will fly to Israel in less than two years," Cohen told the Hoteliers' Association conference in Jerusalem. "We are also talking to Ryanair, and flights priced at $150-$200 is not an exaggeration."

And here a part I don't fully catch:

Quote:
Cohen said that bringing in the Ireland-based Ryanair is more complicated, since it would have to sign agreements in Europe to fly here, while easyJet can freely fly to Israel.

It looks like something concerning bilateral rights and I would assume that there is a sort of open-skies treaty Israel - UK, but not Isreal - Ireland. But if that is the case, easyJet can only fly from the UK, and maybe easyJet Switzerland from Swiss airports. Well, as that are very important markets for easyJet, it can well be worth it.

Does anybody know if Israel is considering a full open-skies treaty with the EU, like Morocco?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5898 times:

Eilat not Tel Aviv I would have thought.

Great move for EZY.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2235 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

Great news. Since they already serve ATH wouldn't it be wise to open a mid-east hub there?


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3623 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

Isn't Israel a bit too far for a low cost like EasyJet to fly there? ATH is supposed to be stretching the flight limit of low costs from the UK.

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5830 times:

Good news but let us hope it will not be a repeat of the LTN-SAW saga.


MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

Quoting Lewis (Reply 3):
Isn't Israel a bit too far for a low cost like EasyJet to fly there? ATH is supposed to be stretching the flight limit of low costs from the UK.

STN-TLV are 3568 km away. Flight time is about 4 hours. Which A/C would EZY fly on the route???

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

I guess this is the very limit for a LCC. If I am not wrong, many UK charters including Excel Airways operate the route (but for sure they do CAI) turning thre crew around on the very same date.

Can anybody confirm this?

Brgds.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 5):

Absolute cakewalk for the A319 - no problem year round at MTOW.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

Quoting BCAL (Reply 4):
Good news but let us hope it will not be a repeat of the LTN-SAW saga

the saga that has been resolved

LTN-SAW will now operate on Friday, Saturday and Sunday departing LTN at 22:25

Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5503 times:

Quoting EZYAirbus (Reply 8):
the saga that has been resolved

Well that is good news but U2's website still says

Quote:
Sorry, but seats on this route are not currently available. Flights between London Luton and Istanbul will be back on sale as soon as possible subject to approval from the Turkish civil aviation authorities.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

It is rumoured that Easyjet is also having talks with Cyprus officials aiming to start operations sometime within the next 1-2 years.

Having in mind that Stelios is Cypriot, I would expect such a move to happen before commencing flights to Israel. Unless they both start at the same time or unless Stelios wants to protect, in a way, the national carrier of his country!

The big questions is, in case it happens, which airports will EZY be connecting?
UK to either Cyprus or Israel is far (financially) for a LCC, isn't it?

I mean, LCCs tend to focus on shorter and usually more profitable flights which explains the fact that only a small minority of EZY flights are more than 3 hours.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 10):
LCCs tend to focus on shorter and usually more profitable flights which explains the fact that only a small minority of EZY flights are more than 3 hours.

Agreed, but passengers are now becoming used to LCCs and their tolerance of no frills can be stretched to longer flights provided the fares are right. Besides U2 have been operating successfully to ATH for many years, which is just under 4 hours flight duration.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):
Besides U2 have been operating successfully to ATH for many years, which is just under 4 hours flight duration.

Agree!

Forgot to say that if everything goes to plan, CTO (Cyprus Tourism Organisation) have announced that Ryanair could be launching daily flight between LCA or PFO and Milan.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
Absolute cakewalk for the A319 - no problem year round at MTOW.

True, but IIRC U2 has the low-MTOW version (64 vs. 75.5 tons) which has much less range, 3350 km vs. 6800 km, according to the Airbus website. This is even more valid with U2's high-density interior.

LTN-SAW is 2563 km, while STN-TLV is, as HBDAN said, 3568 km, too much for the U2 A319. And I doubt they'll receive the 75.5 ton MTOW-version in the future.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):

Who said they would operate from the UK?

Perhaps one of the European bases? Geneva maybe?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineTzadik From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

LCC's And Israel (by Tzadik Dec 21 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2506071

guess my question way back in december is not lookin' so obtuse now  Smile


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 14):
Who said they would operate from the UK?

Perhaps one of the European bases? Geneva maybe?

In several replies there are hints at service from the UK. But anyway, GVA-TLV is 2922 km, which might be a strech on the westbound sector. SXF-TLV isn't much shorter. MXP-TLV with 2709 km however seems doable, albeit at the risk of fuel-stopping with strong headwinds.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

I thought this would be possible with one of their 737-700s?
If Malev can operate to Dubai and onwards with an -800, why can't U2 make the shorter flight without stopping?



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
True, but IIRC U2 has the low-MTOW version (64 vs. 75.5 tons) which has much less range, 3350 km vs. 6800 km, according to the Airbus website. This is even more valid with U2's high-density interior.

Is there any actual technical difference between the low-MTOW and the high-MTOW version, or is it just a matter of certification? In the latter case, it might be worth it recertifying a bunch of planes.

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 10):
I mean, LCCs tend to focus on shorter and usually more profitable flights which explains the fact that only a small minority of EZY flights are more than 3 hours.

Overall, the difference between LCCs, holiday/charter carriers and legacy/network/classic carriers is getting smaller and smaller. However, when easyJet sees they have a competitive advantage over other carriers operating the same route (for example, because of their lower overhead costs) they can do well on the route. They will be mostly generating new passengers and taking passengers from charter airlines.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):
Agreed, but passengers are now becoming used to LCCs and their tolerance of no frills can be stretched to longer flights provided the fares are right.

Wasn't this already the case for years with the holiday/charter airlines? People are flying for years from western Europe to Israel, Egypt, Cyprus and even Florida on carriers operating with 29" seat pitch, like Brittannia, Martinair, etc.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting Raffik (Reply 17):
I thought this would be possible with one of their 737-700s?
If Malev can operate to Dubai and onwards with an -800, why can't U2 make the shorter flight without stopping?

The 737NGs also come in different flavours concerning max trust and max MTOW. Doesn't easyJet have a low-MTOW version of the -700 too? Ryanair has a low-MTOW version of their -800s, for those the canaries for example are a stretch, while Transavia with a similar seating lay-out but the higher trust engines, can do this without a problem.


User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):

I am not speaking only about range... EZYs' A319 has 156 seats, so the price won't be as competitive as in short range legs.

Amadeus.net states followings:
LON-TLV: BA 777 and 767; LY 767 and 757
MXP-TLV: AZ 321; LY 757
FRA-TLV: LH 747 (daily) and 346 (daily); LY 738

Personally, I wouldn't enter the route with A319. For sure EZY will have to add an aircraft with more capacity: at least a B738 or A321 to have more seats and therefore reduce its CASM and be competitive on the Europe - Israel route.
 twocents 

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5022 times:

For clarication, U2 operate 3 variants of the A319 within the G-reg EZY fleet of 64k, 66k and 68k MTOW respectively with (AFAIK) a max range of 1700nm which would easily include every other base east of ORY which itself, is only just about over the max range threshold.

However, do not forget that when the easyJet Airbus order was placed that there were options placed to convert some orders to A320/A321 at pre-agreed prices should the company choose to do so.

http://www.easyjet.com/en/news/20021014_01.html

That considered, I see no operational reason why an Israel route from any EZY base would be a problem to realise.

 wave 



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineYazoo From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Quite interesting more by EZY actually, however did they work out the super-security measures needed for planes flying to Israel?


Purple Pride!
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting Joost (Thread starter):
It looks like something concerning bilateral rights and I would assume that there is a sort of open-skies treaty Israel - UK, but not Isreal - Ireland.

He is probably speaking about UK-Israel flights that would be operated by FR and that are legally difficult. We have a similar situation here in Germany: German LCCs like Germanwings fly many routes to non-EU countries like Russia and Turkey but U2 and FR can't follow.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineCardiffairtaxi From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Maybe Easyjet are considering buying a few 757`s,following after Jet 2.
This would surely make more sense,and just continually turn round on these longer routes.I work for an israeli company,and know the majority of flights to and from the UK,are usually full.These are generally on 767`s,so should`nt be a problem to fill a 757.


25 BDKLEZ : That's not going to happen, simple. If any capacity increse is deemed necessary, the company will opt for the A320/A321 as I said above in order to m
26 Tommy777 : It's no problem operating this route with an A319. SK is/was operating both BEY and CAI seasonally with a 738 out of ARN/CPH. But if this route is to
27 Raffik : Don't Astraeus operate their 737NGs to Egypt and Israel? Also to Africa and Canada.
28 Sevenair : How come EZY have three MTOWs for the 319? Is it because of the airway chargs, based on MTOW? For example the 319 may be physically capable of a 39,00
29 Joost : Like I mentioned earlier, there are different versions of the 737NG. Not all have the same (certified) trust and so there are difference in range/pay
30 BDKLEZ : You're quite correct, there aren't any physical differences at all and the sole purpose of the exercise is indeed, as you suggest, to reduce the Nav.
31 Cornish : Its not the passengers tolerance that is the issue here, rather than the number of segments an aircraft can fly in a day. The more segements flown te
32 EZYAirbus : The website does indeed say that, but at work we had a memo saying the flight will operate at those new times, the first departing this friday. Wrong
33 Joost : It's actually all about a competitive advantage above other carriers. LTN and STN are also cheaper to operate from than LHR. And, the prices currentl
34 Cornish : Oh agreed - but my point about LTN and STN is that it would be more logical to fly from there rather than their LGW base due to the local catchment.
35 Post contains images Joost : Their Morocco routes are also sold for similar prices by the way. A quick search for september quoted a 130 pound (incl tax) fare for LGW-RAK for wed
36 A320ajm : Is this the first EZY flight outside the EU?
37 Cornish : Nope - Switzerland, Croatia, Morocco, Turkey (soon)
38 CYatUK : Greek citizenship yes, but his family is from the village of Pedoulas, Cyprus. Himself and his family have donated and still donate quite a lot of mo
39 Post contains links BDKLEZ : Here's a brief article in an Isreali trade publication affirming the same from Mr Eli Cohen, of Israel's Turism Ministry. http://www.port2port.com/Ind
40 Post contains links BDKLEZ : Here's a brief article in an Israeli trade publication affirming the same from Mr Eli Cohen, of Israel's Tourism Ministry. http://www.port2port.com/In
41 N1120A : The 73G and the A319 have no issue with routes longer than this length in the US. The key is having the right MTOW They wouldn't need the 75.5 ton A3
42 RJ100 : I would bet the Swiss bases are top on the list for services to Israel. -GVA traditionally has lots of connections to Israel as well as -BSL, where th
43 Pe@rson : But don't forget that flying more-and-more segments per day means more ATC costs, more maintenance, more staff, more fuel - it's not necessarily as l
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