FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Posted (6 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 9264 times:
According to Air&Cosmos , Korean Air will convert before year end some of the options they have on the A380 in A380F firm order.
No number of unit mentionned.
Curious to see what SIA will do , by ordering A380Fs , or 747-8Fs.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 9093 times:
Quoting FCKC (Thread starter): According to Air&Cosmos , Korean Air will convert before year end some of the options they have on the A380 in A380F firm order.
No number of unit mentionned.
Curious to see what SIA will do , by ordering A380Fs , or 747-8Fs.
Well this would have to be one of the most bizare rumors to be floating around.
Korean Air currently hold 3 A380 options.
I would have expected Korean Air to go with the B748F, especially considering their large B747F fleet.
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 9083 times:
Sounds good and if it happens a victory for the A380F program.
taken from the KE Cargo website,...
"Korean Air has been carrying cargo since its establishment in 1969, has been a leading transporter in the high tech market and specializes in carrying perishables (fruits, vegetables and flowers) and live animals. It is the largest subsidiary of The Hanjin Group, one of the world’s leading air, sea and ground transportation conglomerates."
Looks like the cargo KE specializes in, is extremely well suited to be transported by the A380F.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 8936 times:
I find this a strange move but not 100% unexpected. KE is the largest cargo carrier in the world. I would not be surprised if they also order 7478Fs. They will need the forward loading for some of the oversized stuff they carry.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Clickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9444 posts, RR: 72 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 8882 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
A new build 744F is making it's first flight today with Korean here at PAE. An odd combo, a combined B1/C1 flight, they must be in a hurry for the new frame.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6879 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8514 times:
Quoting Manni (Reply 2): Sounds good and if it happens a victory for the A380F program.
If it's a straight swap of the A380 for the A380F, it sounds to me more like a loss for the A380 than a victory for the A380F. It means KE is no longer interested in the A380 and will likely go for the 748 for passenger operations.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4111 posts, RR: 39 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8504 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 10): If it's a straight swap of the A380 for the A380F, it sounds to me more like a loss for the A380 than a victory for the A380F. It means KE is no longer interested in the A380 and will likely go for the 748 for passenger operations.
Better re-read FCKC´s post once again. There he clearly states that KE is apparently considering to convert its OPTIONS into A380F firm orders. Nowhere the word "swap" is mentioned.
Jaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8428 times:
This makes perfect sense. They have ordered five passenger versions for which they clearly have demand for. Ordering three freighters wouldn't be a big deal because they would share commonality with the passenger version. I would imagine their cargo operation is large enough where they could support both the 747F and the A380F. As mentioned earlier Korean carriers a lot of high technology goods and perishables that the A380F works really well with. These type of goods are probably just placed on pallets where it doesnt matter that the A380F doesn't have the nose door. Simmilar to the type of freight UPS and FedEx carry and they have both ordered the plane.
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8421 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 10):
If it's a straight swap of the A380 for the A380F, it sounds to me more like a loss for the A380 than a victory for the A380F. It means KE is no longer interested in the A380 and will likely go for the 748 for passenger operations.
Going by the post of the thread starter it is not a straight swap but a convertion of options held.
If KE Cargo does indeed order the A380F, given the fact that they currently fly an all 747 freighter fleet (19), it's indeed a victory for the A380 program.
However, an A380F order certainly does not exclude a future 748F order.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8402 times:
Quoting Joni (Reply 12): I don't find it at all bizarre that a carrier would convert options to orders. That's what options are for, after all.
I was referring to the A380F order from one of the largest B747F operators. I was also surprised to read this as so many of our friends here on A.net speak of the superiority of the B748F vs the A388F.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26718 posts, RR: 83 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 8373 times:
Quoting Legoguy (Reply 6): Also, will the A380F have any rear or forward cargo doors?
The A380 will not have a nose-mounted boarding door, which is an option on the 747 freighter line. Nor will it have a rear cargo ramp, like on military transports. I believe it just has two side-doors, one on each deck.
Quoting Manni (Reply 2): "Korean Air has been carrying cargo since its establishment in 1969, has been a leading transporter in the high tech market and specializes in carrying perishables (fruits, vegetables and flowers) and live animals. It is the largest subsidiary of The Hanjin Group, one of the world’s leading air, sea and ground transportation conglomerates."
It has been reported here that for low-density items like flowers and packages (which I imagine would be how fruit and vegetables would be shipped - smallish boxes), the A380F is a solid platform, so adding them to KE's fleet makes sense. And with EK converting their two orders to A380Ps, that means KE should be able to get them earlier which might have helped sway them towards the deal.
Tod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1682 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 8247 times:
Quoting FCKC (Thread starter): According to Air&Cosmos , Korean Air will convert before year end some of the options they have on the A380 in A380F firm order.
By chance, do you have a link to the article?
I went to the website and could not find it.
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 8181 times:
To all.
It's NOT a swap from A380 to A380F , but a CONVERSION OPTION .
Probably when KE signed their initial order , they had a clause , saying they will be able to convert the options as they will wish , meaning , either A380 or A380F.
As WINGS mentionned , they have 3 options.It's thinkable that they will order 3 A380Fs.
As 3 planes for a large airline as KE has no meaning , it's also thinkable these 3 units , could be the sign of an all A380F fleet for Korean Air Cargo in the years to come.
Thus meaning the end of the 747 at KE in the years to come as well.
For the pax division , i see a mix of some more A380s and an order for 777-300ERs to totally replace the entire 744 fleet.
For the cargo division , i see the replacement of 744Fs by A380Fs.
First the oldest ones and then , but not before some more years the 744ERFs.
I do not see KE ordering any 747-8s or 747-8Fs.
Perhaps for them , the only way to introduce 747-8s , is to order (and thus being in the Asian airline group pushing Boeing to do it) the lenghted 747-8.
Maybe you should read the post again. It says a conversion of A380 options into A380F orders. Call it a half swap if you will. It means they are not planning on ordering additional passenger A380 which is bad news for the A380 program. KE is basically looking for a way to cut their losses on their A380 commitment.
AirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 413 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 8144 times:
Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 13): This makes perfect sense. They have ordered five passenger versions for which they clearly have demand for. Ordering three freighters wouldn't be a big deal because they would share commonality with the passenger version.
What would make perfect sense is that Airbus is having a fire sale on the A380F right now since they don't have interior wiring to delay them.
I'm not bashing here, I'm just saying, that if they are having to put out the cash for the BAE stake that selling a bunch of A380Fs would be a good way to drum up some cash a couple of years out (plus they get the deposits right now).
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 8130 times:
Tod
Sorry not to be able to provide a link.
If you wish to see this information by yourself , you will be obliged to buy the last issue of Air&Cosmos , or to subscribe to their website !!!!!!!
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 8054 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 19): Maybe you should read the post again. It says a conversion of A380 options into A380F orders. Call it a half swap if you will. It means they are not planning on ordering additional passenger A380 which is bad news for the A380 program. KE is basically looking for a way to cut their losses on their A380 commitment.
How on earth is converting 3 A380 options bad for the A380 program? If KE was looking to cut their losses on the A380 program wouldn't it be more logical for them to convert their 5 existing A388 on order into the A388F?
If they are really to go forward and convert those 3 options than this is a crystal clear sign of confidence towards the A380 program.
I'm also predicting that as soon as some of the current option holders start to convert their option into firm orders than we will see various airlines do the same.
AirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 413 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 8047 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 16): It has been reported here that for low-density items like flowers and packages (which I imagine would be how fruit and vegetables would be shipped - smallish boxes), the A380F is a solid platform, so adding them to KE's fleet makes sense.
I hear that there's a need for a flower transporter down in Medelline.
Quoting FCKC (Reply 18): As 3 planes for a large airline as KE has no meaning , it's also thinkable these 3 units , could be the sign of an all A380F fleet for Korean Air Cargo in the years to come.
Thus meaning the end of the 747 at KE in the years to come as well.
I think that you are gettin' your hopes up there FCKC, at least for the moment. But hey, everyone's gotta have a dream.
KE still is waiting on one 744ERF that they ordered last May.
25 FCKC: WINGS Totally agree with you. If KE convert their options , it is a very clear sign they are confident in this machine , and as i already wrote , perh
26 Stitch: Does KE only handle low-density cargo? Because if they do not, then they will continue to need 747 freighters (be them 744Fs, 744BCFs, or 748Fs) beca
27 BoomBoom: No one expects the 748F to completly shut out the A380F. But it seems likely that Boeing will capture the lion's share of the VLA-F market.
28 WINGS: Exactly FCKC. If converting some A380 option into firm orders isn't a good sign of confidance than I don't know what is. Good reply BoomBoom. I also
29 Atmx2000: That doesn't make any sense. Converting options costs money and increases the commitment to the A380 family.
30 Greyhound: One way or another, it's a little refreshing (even as a Boeing fan) to see good news for the A380. At least it's not the usual recent reports about de
31 Johnny: Quoting Airbazar (Reply 19): Maybe you should read the post again. It says a conversion of A380 options into A380F orders. Call it a half swap if you
32 PhilSquares: Actually, it's the worst option there is for them. The density capability of the floor is too light on the 380F, no 3 meter pallets.... The list goes
33 Stitch: It might be the "worst option" for some (or even the majority) of their freight (which explains why the continue to add 747Fs to their fleet), but so
34 Dutchjet: Lets face it, we dont know what KE is doing regarding the A380, the A380F or its options......this thread is based on an unsupported comment that the
35 Keesje: Well it can do LHR and LAX.. nonstop with 150t. Combined with today´s generation reliability & low maintenance costs. It can probably do rounds trip
36 Manni: KE cargo, being the worlds largest international cargo airline could certainly put both the 380F and 747F at good use. I wouldn't expect KE to drop t
37 Carpethead: KE is having some of its 744 converted into 744BCF. I am not sure of the numbers but the first one is now in the conversion process. That's your conc
38 ORDagent: Can I borrow your crystal ball? Orders are constantly updated and schedules reworked based on the day to day ops of the airline. Not wanting to get m
39 Keesje: forum member send me an instant message shocked to be caught next to the model in reply 35 who..
40 Joni: Do you have some statistics on how often they use 3 meter pallets, or how often the floor would be an issue for them?
41 A342: Sorry, but now I'm getting quite upset. This was said so many times, but nobody could give a f****** proof. If you can't either, please do not repeat
42 PhilSquares: Sure every freight operator used 3 meter pallets. It's the standard in the freight world. Ok, dipstick, here you go.... www.content.airbusworld.com/S
43 A342: " target=_blank>www.content.airbusworld.com/SITES/Te...0.pdf I have this file since quite a while. I can't find the info on cargo density. Do you know
44 Lotsamiles: I found an interesting presentation by Airbus concerning the floor loading capability of the A380F and how they plan to handle higher density cargo. T
45 Glacote: The "cargo density" scam at it again. Stating that the A388F has a density issue is a nonsense and those who relay it just ruin their credibility. Wha
46 DfwRevolution: It sure can, but with tons of empty aircraft volume being lugged around as dead weight. There go the lower tons/mile The A388F will likely be an exce
47 TrevD: Absolutely and completely wrong... wrong, wrong, wrong wrong and...wrong. The A380F is limited to a 8 lb/cu-ft floor loading density compared with th
48 Keesje: why? a mixed fleet of A380 & 747s is most likely for the occasional outsize loads a 747, for max payload-range effiency (150t non stop 24hr roundtrip
49 A342: Sorry, but after hearing the same BS so many times, I didn't find other words to phrase it. And where's the proof ? Nowhere. As you said, the A388F w
50 Lotsamiles: Just Google "A380 density China Lenormand" and it will come up first on the list. Lenormand is the Airbus sales guy's name and the presentation was g
51 Arecibo: No surprise there, KA exherting dominance over Asiana.
52 DfwRevolution: Read the threads I linked. The answers are there... Which is quite different than Glactoe's assertion that anything the 747F can do, the A388F can do
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I hear that there's a need for a flower transporter down in Medelline.
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