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Potential Routes Of Delta 777-200LR  
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9350 times:

As DL763DFW pointed out on another thread about forthcoming Delta wide-body procurements and firming of existing orders. CEO Jerry Grinstien all but set in stone that DL is committed to the 772 for the wide-body fleet. Assuming that these are indeed the 772-200LR model that was more than likely inferred to by Grinstien in his email chat with DL employees, what routes would DL put these new a/c on?
ATL-JNB
ATL-DEL
ATL-BOM
ATL-PEK
To maximize the feed, would they originate elsewhere before going to ATL, JFK or LAX like CVG or perhaps even SLC getting some regular 777 action from DL?
Any straightforward ideas?
 idea 


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9339 times:

ATL SYD

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineSilver764 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9248 times:

Hopefully SYD, the sooner the better.  Smile  Smile  Smile

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11163 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9238 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 1):
ATL SYD

My god, talk about beating Qantas to the punch.

But, I don't think even the long-legged 772LR can make that one. (I could be wrong.)



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16798 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9238 times:

I think people are jumping to conclusions, from the refered to thread the comments about the 777s were not meant to infer DL ordered the 777-200LR. Rather they have two more 777-200ER's which are their "long haul" aircraft.

It would make no sense for DL to order 2 777-200LR's for a couple of reasons.

1.) the 777-200LR is GE 90 powered, DL's 777s are RR powered.

2.) Having only two of one type is a total waste as no other aircraft can sub for them, if you launch say ATL-JNB the same two planes will just go back and forth on the same route which is a total waste. And when they have to go for maintenance there is no other sub.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

ATL-PEK
JFK-SYD
JFK-MEL
ATL-MEL
JFK and ATL- Ganton, china



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9197 times:

would you please get over your engine commonality fetish? Engines are meant to stay on-wing for years at a time and overhauls for small fleets are contracted out. As it is, I believe AA does overhauls on the Trent 892s on DL's current 777s. And as has been pointed out, DL has operated a dual fleet of GE and PW 767s for years.

ATL and JFK to India and HKG. PEK doesn't really need an LR.

And has been pointed out, DL will not necessarily buy a boatload of LRs depending on what they do w/ the 787. The LR will have a range advantage over the 787 but on a very few routes. It is doubtful that DL will order any more LRs than they need to do serve that handful of routes and satisfy DL's order requirements to Boeing.

The real factor in DL's order book is the 737NG orders. DL is under much less hurry to order those now. If Boeing doesn't allow DL to slip those orders any further (I believe there are more than 50), DL could convert a number of those to either the 787 or Worldliners.


User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9183 times:

I was thinking maybe ATL-SYD....but does it have the range? I know Qantas and boeing have been going over the program to see if it could do SYD-DFW i guess the latest verdict it can, so could it do a bit longer stretch to ATL?

other cities could possibly be ATL-DXB or ATL-PEK


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

The answer is simple, add hish kits to MD-80's and buy 787's, 737's.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9104 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 1):
ATL SYD



Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
But, I don't think even the long-legged 772LR can make that one. (I could be wrong.)



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
I was thinking maybe ATL-SYD....but does it have the range?



Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 7):
I was thinking maybe ATL-SYD....but does it have the range?

Yes the 772LR can do that route.

ATL-SYD 8,068NM
DFW-SYD 7,454NM

Boeing's site still lists the 772LR range at 9,420NM.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/pf/pf_lrproduct.html



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11163 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8940 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Yes the 772LR can do that route.

ATL-SYD 8,068NM
DFW-SYD 7,454NM

I don't think it's that simple. What kind of payload can the 772LR take when it's going 9420 nm? Styrofoam? Let's not forget, QF originally turned down buying 772LRs for SYD-DFW. I wonder why...

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
would you please get over your engine commonality fetish?

As they say in Detroit, "Exactically."



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User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8885 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
JFK-SYD
JFK-MEL
ATL-MEL

Australia seams to be a very popular place for fans of the widget. Can DL really offer a competitive route there with Qantas and United dominating travel to/from the US? The 772LR is one that can reach half a world away in longitude as well as latitude.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8874 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
To maximize the feed, would they originate elsewhere before going to ATL, JFK or LAX like CVG or perhaps even SLC getting some regular 777 action from DL?
Any straightforward ideas?

If they only had two, it would definitely be JFK-BOM. This route holds huge profit potential, but I'm skeptical that the 772ER will be able to do it reliably year-round.

Following that, if they got more of the planes, I'd expect to see the following:

ATL-JNB (drop the tech stop in DKR)
ATL-HKG
ATL-BOM
ATL-CPT (if JNB does well)
JFK-HKG
JFK-PVG

No point in wasting 777LR on routes like TLV, PEK, etc. where the range isn't necessarily needed compared with the 777ER.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8849 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
If they only had two, it would definitely be JFK-BOM. This route holds huge profit potential, but I'm skeptical that the 772ER will be able to do it reliably year-round.

Which is why I'm suspecting that some of these 772s DL is going to firm-up next month can and will be the LR.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
ATL-JNB (drop the tech stop in DKR)

They will need a 772LR to do this one as well and not make the tech/fuel stop in Senegal.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8676 times:

Well, if DL were to actually get 77Ls, first route would definitely be JFK-BOM, to overcome weight restrictions the -ER will encounter. If they get more than 2, the next route would be ATL-JNB, though in that case I'd say local traffic demand out of DKR will also play a large part in the decision.
Aside from those two routes, and perhaps, just perhaps, an ATL-India flight, there really isn't too much realistic demand for the 77Ls capabilities. And while I would sure love to see routes like ATL-SYD/DXB/HKG/SIN, I doubt that those would ever happen before DL could get their hands on some 787s for those routes.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8625 times:

DL hasn't considered ordering 777-200LR.. they are in bankruptcy and can't afford buyinig new airplane whats the point of posting?.. where's the net profit?  Smile

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8500 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
DL hasn't considered ordering 777-200LR.. they are in bankruptcy and can't afford buyinig new airplane whats the point of posting?.. where's the net profit?

DL was looking at the -200LR before 9/11 and subsequently before bankruptcy.

Will you get over your exciting little fettish or dream that DL is going to die.

AC went into bankruptcy, did you bitch about everything they did during their restructuring?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
I don't think it's that simple. What kind of payload can the 772LR take when it's going 9420 nm? Styrofoam?

The LR's range without the aux tanks is still 8,800 nm at - I believe - MTOW. That should allow for a respectful cargo load. Well within range for this awesome bird.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
Will you get over your exciting little fettish or dream that DL is going to die.

AC went into bankruptcy, did you bitch about everything they did during their restructuring?

Eh, don't bother to argue, trolls are just not worth the energy and time  Wink .


User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8331 times:

I just can't for the life of me understand why Delta fans are talking about expansion and new aircraft when DL hasn't even emerged from bankruptcy?

Acting like giddy liitle school girls seeing who's going to get asked to the prom.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8298 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
1.) the 777-200LR is GE 90 powered, DL's 777s are RR powered.

Delta operates 767-300ERs with both GE and Pratt engines, so that may not be much of an issue.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8216 times:

Quoting Airzim (Reply 19):
I just can't for the life of me understand why Delta fans are talking about expansion and new aircraft when DL hasn't even emerged from bankruptcy?

Because some of us are having a jolly good time proving you and your Canadian friend(s) wrong about DL’s ability to restructure.

Bankruptcy means a company cannot pay its current bills based on liquidity, a condition that existed last fall. Since then, DL has dramatically turned the company’s finances around and is very much on track to emerge from BK as one of the leanest and most profitable legacy airlines in the US. Every new financial report from DL confirms their financial progress.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8191 times:

Quoting: Airzim:

Quote:
just can't for the life of me understand why Delta fans are talking about expansion and new aircraft when DL hasn't even emerged from bankruptcy?

Acting like giddy liitle school girls seeing who's going to get asked to the prom.

Because it is inevitable that they have to order new a/c, e.g. 787 for 767 replacements. The 777's are in the plans as well as the operations for International will grow to be appx. 40-45% of operations. As far BK, they are showing imporvement in revenue & profitability and will emerge stronger for sure in just a couple of years. Also, anyone remember NWA ordering 777's & 787's - and they are in BK?

As far as possible routes:
JFK-BOM (a given)
ATL-AKL & SYD ( I believe if they go down under it would probably include a stop in AKL just for assurance and also as an extra destination for the SkyTeam profile since Australia/NZ is where SkyTeam is weakest)
ATL-PVG (China has been on their hit list for quite some time)
ATL-PEK (They lost this last time to CO/AA but Shanghai would be good alternative and close to the Free Trade Zone/growth)

Just my .02



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8169 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 22):
Also, anyone remember NWA ordering 777's & 787's - and they are in BK?

NWA doesn't have any 777s on order



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8154 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
Because some of us are having a jolly good time proving you and your Canadian friend(s) wrong about Dlls ability to restructure.

Bankruptcy means a company cannot pay its current bills based on liquidity, a condition that existed last fall. Since then, DL has dramatically turned the company’s finances around and is very much on track to emerge from BK as one of the leanest and most profitable legacy airlines in the US. Every new financial report from DL confirms their financial progress.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

If they we're such a great company at 'turnarounds' why did they have to resort to BK? Why didn't they present this "brilliant" strategy to their lenders and employees before breaking their contracts?


25 The777Man : Delta still has 5 777-200/ER that they can convert to -200/LR. Most likely routes in my opinion are: ATL-JNB (nonstop) ATL-HKG and less likely ATL-SYD
26 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : The Shanghai route from ATL just might be the fortune cookie that works this time with USDOT! JFK-PEK might also be another fortune cookie. As far as
27 Behramjee : I would like to see DL exploiting the range of the B 772LR and tap NICHE MARKETS out of its JFK or ATL hub which warrant nonstop flights to USA and th
28 SLCUT2777 : I would say 2 perhaps even three will be converted to the LR Those should do that job fine.
29 BA : If DL serves BEY, it would be via JFK. It could also easily be done on a 777-200ER. It doesn't need a 777-200LR.
30 KrisYYZ : has DL confirmed that they ordered LR frames?
31 Floridaflyboy : My thoughts exactly. MAX range means very little in the grand scheme of things. What counts is the range when fully-loaded.
32 SLCUT2777 : They likely will next month according to the conversation with Jerry Grinstien online with DL employees (only available via intranet rather than inte
33 Post contains images KrisYYZ : so it would make sense if those orders would be converted into LRs. Are the B772ER's and B773ER/2LRs assembled on the same line at Everett? If DL con
34 PolymerPlane : Well, not really, you can fill 772LR with more cargo on that run, which means higher revenue potential compared to 772ER No, not styrofoam. More like
35 D L X : If Delta wants to go to Australia or New Zealand, it will be because Delta wants to go to Australia or New Zealand... not because of Skyteam. Think a
36 PolymerPlane : I have never heard anything on 772LR on SYD-DFW run from QF. QF said 772LR is not good enough for SYD-LHR, not SYD-DFW. They are now considering 748I
37 D L X : You're right, I think I am mistaken. LHR was the problem with the 772LR.
38 Robbie86 : 777-200LR - Max range 16,417km (8865nm) ATL - SYD = 14933 kilometres (9333 miles) (+ - 0) It's Canton, China or Guangzhou.
39 SLCUT2777 : I think an ATL-SYD route for DL is far down the priority list at the very least. But the ATL-JNB and possible ATL-CPT in South Africa as well as ATL/
40 Kaitak744 : Well, as you all know, for routes longer than 5,000nm, the 777-200LR is more cost efficient than the 777-200ER. DL has about 7 pending 777 deliveries?
41 SunriseValley : Economically they pay off on sectors over about 5200nm.
42 Post contains images LV : Hmm... DL is ordering 777's Must be for ATL-MCO, ATL-TPA, ATL-JAX, ATL-FLL.... sorry, I couldn't resist. Although, I am curious to see if they end up
43 SLCUT2777 : Enjoy them since they are the next likely contraction target in Delta's fleet simplification plan.
44 Airplane : If Air Canada baught A340-500 and Embraers when were in bankruptcy, Im sure Delta can do too if they present a good plan. JP
45 Post contains images Irishpower : ATL-SAV--215 NM ATL-CLT--227 NM ATL-JAX--270 NM .
46 Post contains images QantasA380 : Yes please!!!!!
47 Post contains links Zone1 : Delta Posts May 2006 Results (by Panamair Jun 29 2006 in Civil Aviation) Close enough for me!
48 Malaysia : bring back BKK service ATL-BKK it would hurt TG probably if DL can sell cheap seats on it and use sKyTeam
49 Post contains images MotorHussy : Well just about anywhere in the world is pretty viable from ATL with the exception of PER. The 777LR's range of 9,420 nm makes ATL an almost perfect b
50 Planemanofnz : I think DL will go to SYD. But you are right in saying that there would be a tech stop in AKL. This means that the aircraft won't be payload restrict
51 Gemuser : As much as I would like to see DL at SYD, all this talk is just that, talk! It most probabley won't happen! Because: 1) It needs a very expensive airc
52 MotorHussy : Of course it's all hypothetical anyway, but... This would not be a tech stop as it is not required. It would be a stop for the purpose of creating mor
53 Post contains images Positiverate : Take a pen, and draw a line from ATL to any city in the world. Doubtful they'll be "contracted", especially since DL is looking to buy more of them f
54 Post contains images MotorHussy : Except PER Regards MH
55 SunriseValley : Correct. Westbound ATL-SYD assuming -35k winds is a still air distance of about 8700nm. Assuming a 320000lb OEW this would allow a payload of about 9
56 Post contains images AirMailer : How about ATL-MCO-GIG-MCO-ATL?
57 SLCUT2777 : MH: Great Map! Thank you for not using that "%&*#@" Mercator projection! The one that over-bloats the most northern latitudes to super sized nations.
58 LipeGIG : ATL-GIG IMO, is well served with the 763 during off-peak. It could receive a 764 during Brazilian summer. I take a look on Delta.com reservations and
59 Post contains links SunriseValley : Still air distance is probably close to 9500nm assuming -45k winds. Would probably mean less than full passenger load. Probably a doubtful propositio
60 WorldTraveler : Nice job with the numbers, Sunrise. I always like it when people pull out the calculator to validate their arguments. BEY is well within the range of
61 SLCUT2777 : " target=_blank>http://theaviationspecialist.com/777...t.gif When you start getting into the maximum range, such routes from ATL like SIN or PER will
62 Post contains links SunriseValley : Widebodyphotog has done some work on this series..see http://theaviationspecialist.com/787_family.gif The 787-9 seems to have the longest legs of the
63 MotorHussy : Thanks SV. Hey what's your formula for working this out? Mine's probably a lot less scientific. I just figure that if SQ can fly SIN-EWR (15,345km/8,
64 Post contains links SunriseValley : The manufacturers range/payload table should be pretty close although on some of the more recent aircraft such as the -200LR they are probably out of
65 MalpensaSFO : That "tech stop" will rake in the dough if it was originating in JFK. The JFK to DKR market is very high yielding and is currently resting in the ban
66 JAL : But can they even afford to order new jets?????
67 MalpensaSFO : New aircraft will be ordered on exit from bankruptcy within the next 12-24 months.. End is in sight!
68 PolymerPlane : SQ flies the SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR, especially the latter, on a very light payload. The aircraft is configured for only 181, not because they are gener
69 Post contains images MotorHussy : The lighter payload and ONLY 181 passengers still fill the cabin up and with premium passengers only. These premium PAX make for a lighter payload bu
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