GWYIRE From Ireland, joined Sep 2005, 42 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
Northwest Airlines, the fourth largest airline in the US, is reported to be looking at launching a number of routes from the US to both Dublin and Shannon.
The move will come as a blow to Aer Lingus' expansion plans in the transatlantic market, according to the Irish Independent.
While consumers will welcome the extra competition, Aer Lingus will not be so happy as it derives much of its revenue from transatlantic routes.
The Irish airline has pinned much of its expansion plans on the market and is currently awaiting the completion of the Open Skies agreement to launch new routes.
The move by the US airline, which enjoys Chapter 11 protection from bankruptcy, comes at a bad time for Aer Lingus as it faces increased competition from Ryanair on the majority of its short-haul routes and awaits government clearance to float on the stock exchange.
As well as being the fourth largest carrier in the US, Northwest lays claim to being the fifth largest carrier in the world.
Northwest already has hubs at Amsterdam, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis/St Paul and Tokyo, but continues to rack up huge losses.
Last month it reported a USD1.1bn loss for Q1, 2006, up from USD529m in the same period last year. The Minneapolis-based airline is looking to Europe to offset domestic losses.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3467 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4617 times:
Why can't NW do something original? Other US carriers are expanding to Europe and soon European carriers will do the opposite to the US. NW needs to get all their A330s and start expanding in Asia and add some non-stop routes that are under served.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Lobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4605 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 2): Why can't NW do something original?
Considering I can count on one hand how many cities in Europe that NW serves, I think it's a good idea. If NW can operate non-stop and avoid AMS and KLM, it's more money in their pocket. No?
EIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 387 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4554 times:
While I think its always good to see new airlines and new routes to Ireland I'm not sure if NW's hubs are routes that are going to have all that high a demand from Ireland. I may be totally wrong but I wouldn't have thought there was big Irish communities in Detroit or Memphis or Minneapolis.
Any news on the timing and equipment being used? Probably a 757 I'd guess, surely they couldn't fill an A330 on those routes
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3244 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4537 times:
While Boston was one of the cities last time, I wonder whether having AA to contend with--albeit seasonally--will chase Northwest away this time?
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 499 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4394 times:
Quite frankly I have no sympathy for Aer Lingus about NW and tgheir picking off some of the potential business from Aer Lingus.
If Ireland had agreed to drop the SNN stopover requirement years ago or even in the fairly recent past Aer Lingus would have been free to expand to the USA as much as they wanted.
Mlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 11 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4317 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 2): Why can't NW do something original? Other US carriers are expanding to Europe and soon European carriers will do the opposite to the US. NW needs to get all their A330s and start expanding in Asia and add some non-stop routes that are under served.
I have to agree wholeheartedly. Ireland, for as much as I love to visit, is becoming such a trendy destination for carriers to add to their systems, and it is certainly not a particularly high-yield TA route.
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 5): While Boston was one of the cities last time, I wonder whether having AA to contend with--albeit seasonally--will chase Northwest away this time?
I'll probably eat my words, but it would be foolhardy to use BOS. Little feed for NW there. I would figure a 757 service from DTW.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4833 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4272 times:
Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 7): I'll probably eat my words, but it would be foolhardy to use BOS. Little feed for NW there. I would figure a 757 service from DTW.
Aer Lingus has less feed in Boston than NWA and does not operate a hub at either SNN or DUB so it has little feed there. NWA probably will operate it out of DTW but BOS will also work.
Mlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8): Aer Lingus has less feed in Boston than NWA and does not operate a hub at either SNN or DUB so it has little feed there. NWA probably will operate it out of DTW but BOS will also work.
I would say that EI has a hub in Dub...
I'm speaking specifically to the topic of IRE flights. EI has relative dominance in namesake in the BOS market, former OW partner AA picked up the slack. Perhaps there is room for one more entrant, but with so much NE competition already from US and CO, I could not see NW making a successful go of it.
I respect your opinion, but I could not see NW having success out of BOS.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
WorldTraveler From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7192 posts, RR: 30 Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4106 times:
Keep in mind that part of the strategy may be for the legacies to soak up every available destination which low fare carriers could serve if they start flying to Europe. Yes, 757s are about the only aircraft which NW has available to expand internationally with and there isn’t a whole lot of Europe that can be covered with the 757 from DTW but if a 757 can be deployed on any route that has the potential to generate traffic, it is potentially one less market that an LFC can expand into.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4833 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4037 times:
Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 10): I would say that EI has a hub in Dub...
What connecting market passengers to you see EI carrying between DUB and BOS? Nothing significant that I can think of.
Mlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3947 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13): What connecting market passengers to you see EI carrying between DUB and BOS? Nothing significant that I can think of.
LHR, MAN, GLA: markets that can be served from DUB without the delays and backups that can frequently make a LHR connection a headache.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4833 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3901 times:
Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 14): LHR, MAN, GLA: markets that can be served from DUB without the delays and backups that can frequently make a LHR connection a headache.
I really doubt that EI carries many passengers to BOS that originated in LHR since any delays and backups would also effect the LHR-DUB flights. Any premium paying passengers out of GLA, MAN, and LHR to the US will be on the nob-stops in those markets. As far as the bargain shoppers, this is not the market Northwest or any carrier would be looking for. I douubt that EI carries any significant number of connecting passengers from DUN to the US
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3884 times:
Quoting GWYIRE (Thread starter): The move by the US airline, which enjoys Chapter 11 protection from bankruptcy, comes at a bad time for Aer Lingus as it faces increased competition from Ryanair on the majority of its short-haul routes and awaits government clearance to float on the stock exchange.
Could you explain the relevance of this statement about bankruptcy as it relates to all debts incurred after the filing date? I think if you do a little research, you'll find in U.S. bankruptcy, it's the debts incurred before the filing date that are covered, not the ones after that date. So, once in bankruptcy the company has to cover it's expenses.
Your implication that being in CH 11 gives that company some advantage is wrong.
TheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1039 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3794 times:
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3659 times:
Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 17): I think he's quoting from the irish independent.
I don't know, as there is no link provided. However, even if it's in the "Independent" doesn't necessarilary mean it's correct. The status of a company in CH 11 has no bearing on any debts/costs incurred after the filing date. So, the implication they have some "advantage" is just flat wrong. They are responsible just as any other company would be.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 27048 posts, RR: 76 Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3659 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 5): While Boston was one of the cities last time, I wonder whether having AA to contend with--albeit seasonally--will chase Northwest away this time?
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 6337 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3287 times:
Quoting Lobster (Reply 3): Considering I can count on one hand how many cities in Europe that NW serves, I think it's a good idea. If NW can operate non-stop and avoid AMS and KLM, it's more money in their pocket. No?
No half of it will still find its way into KLM's pocket, all trans-atlantic flights KLM and NW share the revenue 50/50.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Coerj From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2874 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12): Yes, 757s are about the only aircraft which NW has available to expand internationally with and there isn't a whole lot of Europe that can be covered with the 757 from DTW but if a 757 can be deployed on any route that has the potential to generate traffic, it is potentially one less market that an LFC can expand into.
Can NW's 757s be used for transatlantic operations? According to NW's website the range of the 757-200s are 2,800 nm. I am not familiar with NW's 757 fleet but i assume that they have the least powerful version of the P&W engines. Would DTW-Ireland be possible with the 757s considering the range of the aircraft.
Please notify me if I am wrong about the NW 757 range.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2702 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
The -300's are ETOPS certified, but are used primarily for Hawaii service. Without a link or any credible source to back this claim up, I'd say it's nothing more than a rumor....
RandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 323 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2383 times:
Thegooddoctor From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 495 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2336 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 2): Why can't NW do something original? Other US carriers are expanding to Europe and soon European carriers will do the opposite to the US. NW needs to get all their A330s and start expanding in Asia and add some non-stop routes that are under served.
Yes, because after all if everyone starts doing something that makes money, somehow following suit makes them profoundly uncreative
Any expansion in international service is probably a good idea for struggling US carriers. As for the average consumer - more international flights that make money equals healthier airlines which will likely provide more/better domestic service in the future.
The GoodDoctor
25 Jetjack74: We've reached our limit with the A330. It's range is limited to Asia from a few select cities on the west coast and Hawaii, which is why we need the
26 ArtieFufkin: Chapter 11 allows an airline to not pay much of it's interest payments that are unsecured and likely to be wiped out. It allows an airline to renegot
27 ArtieFufkin: That's true. But the advantage does not lie in debt/costs "after the filing date" It occurs because debt/leases/contracts before the filing date can
28 MasseyBrown: Something like 34 million Americans claim Irish ancestry; they don't all live in Boston. Just be glad we don't all visit you at once.
29 PhilSquares: Not until the judge allows them. It's not an automatic "get out of jail free" card. So, until that happens NWA would be obligated to pay the costs.
30 EIRules: I do understand that they dont all live in Boston, but when you take out California, New York Philidelphia, Boston, Texas and Florida I dont think th
31 Dutchjet: DL and CO are well established on transatlantic routes to Ireland....AA and US are now also flying routes to Ireland, plus EI of course - isnt NW a bi
32 Smokeyrosco: wouldn't American americans just want to visit Ireland? why do they have to be Irish American, after all I met a lovely bunch of Mexican Americans la
33 Mikey711MN: Of course, that somehow assumes that a major criterion of route selection between points A & B is the country of origin. MSP, for example, is not ove
34 Smokeyrosco: Maybe I'm way off but, given that if you plot current US-Ireland routes on a map there does seem to be a LOT of the country without direct service, I'
35 Christeljs: Will you be able to fly NW from DUB to SNN though? If so, here I come!
36 Bobnwa: You are exactly right! There are very few Dutch living in SEA or French living in DTW yet NWA operates SEA-AMS and DTW-CDG. Ethnic travel between cit
38 Dutchjet: Come on guys, you all know better..... ATL-DUB works because ATL is a megahub for DL, not because of the Irish population of ATL. SEA-AMS works becaus
39 B752os: Boston and the mtero Boston area has the largest population of Irish in the world outside of Europe. Don't forget tourist. My parents make a trip eve
40 EIRules: No I completely understand that traffic between Ireland and X point in USA isnt simply based on how many Irish Americans live there. That wasnt my sug
41 Smokeyrosco: The Irish would love to visit memphis though, also the artical about NW in the Irish Indo a few days ago suggested Ireland would be more a NW hub feed
42 Dutchjet: Does KLM know about this? KL/NW work together and pax going to/from EUropean and other destinations not served with NW metal transit at AMS. And whic
43 Smokeyrosco: How would I know? I was mearly stating what the paper said, I don't necessarily take it as fact, it was more FYI rather then anything else. AF CSA an
44 Centrair: Though I still think NWA would be better to maybe reposition more ETOPS 757s in Asia (Japan) and opening up new or underserved/not served routes, I ca
45 Yulguy: Despite what some of my fellow forum members have been saying, I think that NW's decision to serve DUB from DTW is interesting. One of the posters sai
46 Hjulicher: I completely agree! I mean, if an airline has a major hub, people from other areas can fly through DTW to get anywhere. The US is a big country and o
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