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International Airline @ IND?  
User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

I know every one will tell me that i am 10-96 and dreaming but IF and I said IF IND was to get a international airline, which airline do you think would take the chance and try IND? IF they did start a non-stop to Europe how many times a week would they mostly likely fly that route??

Eric  wave 


"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Air Canada already flies to Indianapolis. If IND where to get another one, it would probably be from Mexico, not Europe.


a.
User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Besides Air Canada ?? I figured that was a given


"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Quoting Fedexexpress (Thread starter):
I know every one will tell me that i am 10-96 and dreaming but IF and I said IF IND was to get a international airline, which airline do you think would take the chance and try IND? IF they did start a non-stop to Europe how many times a week would they mostly likely fly that route??

Eric

Well, F9 flies to Cancun...


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

IND is too close to ORD, DTW, and CVG to get the level of international service that you describe.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

as does NW to Cancun

User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

I did not realize that Frontier was a International Airline!! Boy I learn something new every day!!!!!


"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
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Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
IND is too close to ORD, DTW, and CVG to get the level of international service that you describe.

Sorry I have to agree and with the price of fuel right now, I really do not see any carrier willing to take the chance.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Hopefully some day BA or Air France just MIGHT take the chance with IND when a right size airplane comes available and they start to take on those 2nd tier airports!


"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

If NW grows at IND then it is possible that a NW or KLM flight to Amsterdam could come. I think that would be the biggest possibility. It would open up much more of Europe without requiring double connections. However at the moment, I doubt anything will come. I can't see AF or BA coming. Their US partners of DL and AA barely send mainline jets to IND, so that shows the level of commitment to IND. The O/D just isn't that high and there aren't any connecting opportunities that aren't available elsewhere.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 4):
IND is too close to ORD, DTW, and CVG to get the level of international service that you describe.

And PIT is too close to PHL and EWR/JFK, O&D giants on the East Coast... as well as CVG. Yet CLE has one flight on CO to LGW, but that's because CO still has a small hub up in CLE and enough local demand to support that hub... Okay, enough about PIT on this thread, just another thing in common between PIT and IND...

If IND is to get an international carrier to come in from Europe, that would be a bit of a miracle; PIT isn't getting any kind of service anytime soon from US or any international carrier... BA pulled out in 1999 and they're not coming back, and LH isn't coming. They're the only likely carriers from Europe that would have any chance of serving PIT and to think they're not coming at all. Well, PHL and New York are O&D gold mines. What can I say...

[Edited 2006-06-30 00:44:36]


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

The proximity to other hub cities really isn't a valid excuse. If the demand exists the flights will come. Connecting people when its not necessary is an absolute waste of fuel, equipment and labor.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineCOERJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

As said before the most likely chance of service would be on NW or KLM to AMS.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't IND NW's largest US city after the three hubs?

If not NW/KLM you could possibly see limited service on BA or LH to London or Fankfurt in the distant future even though it is highly unlikely.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting COERJ (Reply 12):
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't IND NW's largest US city after the three hubs?

I do believe it is. It's a focus city for NW if I'm not mistaken... Just like PIT is US' largest US city behind the hubs of CLT, PHL, and PHX...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
I do believe it is. It's a focus city for NW if I'm not mistaken

That is correct. It is a NW focus city and their 4th largest domestic operation. They also have a CUN flight and a number of connection opportunities here.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 14):
They also have a CUN flight and a number of connection opportunities here.

Depending on cities where you book from, as Indy said, a lot of connecting flights can be booked at www.nwa.com. Thus, a few more cities and more connection opportunities its almost become a mini-hub.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2925 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

I can see scheduled charter service once or twice a week to Europe during peak season but I do not see a "legacy"-type international airline serving IND for a very long time. There simply isn't the market for it. There are too many other US destinations (SAN, STL, etc) who will international service long before IND.

Now of course unless global warming raises Lake Michigan and it consumes Chicago and IND finds itself, somehow, someway, the new major metro area of the Midwest, then maybe we will see some scheduled, year-round, transoceanic service. But until then, probably not.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Chicago has nothing to do with IND. In fact their cattle call operation is one of IND's biggest assets. People getting to avoid a zoo like that is a big selling point. I just love though how people are so SURE that it won't happen. Just like people a couple of years ago would be so sure that NW would never start a focus city so close to DTW or that NW would NEVER apply for service to CUN from a non hub city. People are so sure of themselves but in reality 99.9% of the people on here have absolutely no decision making when it comes to airline routes. If people think "well STL doesn't have it" then they are just copping out. The money is with O/D. To connect pax for the sake of making a hub look better is a case of putting ego before profit.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 17):
I just love though how people are so SURE that it won't happen.

Hell, I was sure that B6 would NEVER start up PIT service... Need I continue with this statement?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 17):
Hell, I was sure that B6 would NEVER start up PIT service... Need I continue with this statement?

Apples and Oranges. We're talking about a big investment in a market that at this point has shown no ability to support an international flight, whereas we have a rapidly expanding airline just looking for markets to put their planes. JetBlue entering PIT was probably a matter of time as the market is slowly putting itself back together.

Quoting Indy (Reply 17):
Just like people a couple of years ago would be so sure that NW would never start a focus city so close to DTW or that NW would NEVER apply for service to CUN from a non hub city

What does a focus city have to do with hub proximity? They are concentrating on a middle sized o/d market that had a huge hole in it when TZ was weak. Connections made on NW at IND in the grand scheme of things are tiny, enough to where NW could overlook proximity.

Quoting Indy (Reply 17):
If people think "well STL doesn't have it" then they are just copping out. The money is with O/D

St. Louis nor Indianapolis have a realistic shot at landing an international flight in the near future. I'd give St. Louis a 10% chance and Indianapolis a 2% chance, which basically means something drastic needs to happen. In a nutshell, we'll have to be happy with what we have.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

We shall see. 2008 is only a couple years away.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

AA provides 6 AE and 2 mainline ORD-IND-ORD flights a day....flight connections are more than enough to travel to Europe via ORD.....

with CVG and CLE close also, many travelers have enough choices right now....

That being said, the IND-area is quite wealthy...I would think when a 737-sized or E190-sized plane is built which can transport about 100-130 pax overseas with reasonable fares, we might see a 3x/weekly flight...nothing before that however..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 19):
JetBlue entering PIT was probably a matter of time as the market is slowly putting itself back together.

So PIT is getting back together while IND is not. That's pretty much what you are trying to say? Would you also say that PIT might have enough of a market reestablished to support international travel BEFORE IND for that matter? I think that IND might be a little more solid than PIT. FL seems to be building up a bit of an operation there. In PIT, nothing has happened considerably since the demise of the US hub, with the exception of WN and now B6. WN hasn't added service in more than 6 months, and B6 is brand new to PIT. I guess we'll see how strong the PIT market is regarding B6 service there...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
That being said, the IND-area is quite wealthy...I would think when a 737-sized or E190-sized plane is built which can transport about 100-130 pax overseas with reasonable fares, we might see a 3x/weekly flight...nothing before that however..

Perhaps you'd think differently if you had any idea how many people in Indianapolis, the metro area and the state travel to Europe on a daily basis. I've done the research and gotten the numbers from the department of commerce. Why on gods green earth would anyone want to fly through ORD? It is a miserable experience for international arrivals.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2610 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 23):
Perhaps you'd think differently if you had any idea how many people in Indianapolis, the metro area and the state travel to Europe on a daily basis. I've done the research and gotten the numbers from the department of commerce. Why on gods green earth would anyone want to fly through ORD? It is a miserable experience for international arrivals.

Frequency, frequency, frequency...especially with AA, UA, BA, AF, KL, LH, BD, PK, LO, TK, EI, SK, AI, LX, KE, JL, etc. all flying to Europe and Asia via ORD....

I've also listed CVG and CLE..both of which have DL/CO serving....

If (big if) your numbers are correct, why aren't there any air carriers flying out of IND-Europe/Asia yet? Certainly the air carriers have studied the vialbility of IND-Europe....



"Up the Irons!"
25 Indy : Why is VERY easy... our international arrivals building right now is a joke. I've seen small town airports with better facilities. But that changes i
26 JetBlueLuv : Proximity! Yes, I'm sure there are tons of people in the state of Indiana to support the flight, but Indianapolis is closer for those in southern Ind
27 Indy : I think most people here would be happy with AMS service. It would be good for our expanding business center because it eliminates that extra conectio
28 Jacobin777 : I've heard about the poor international arrivals building..but I haven't seen (nor have you shown any info) regarding the O&D picture... At the end o
29 MAH4546 : A trans-Atlantic flight to IND would never work less than 6x weekly (maybe 5x weekly, but that is stretching it) because without a near daily flight
30 Vega : The problem with AMS is that it is typically a Low yield route (e.g., the Backpacker crowd) from most cities in the U.S. and is very seasonal. Even t
31 Indy : Here is the info. The numbers relate to people from Indianapolis, people from Indiana and people traveling here from Europe. This does not include pe
32 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I was trying to be a bit "conservative" with my numbers....maybe 5x-6x/weekly would be needed... ...quite interesting.. 405/daily...I wonder how thos
33 Indy : Remember 405 daily is just the city of Indianapolis. 931 is for the state but then you have to look at the location of the population to determine whi
34 MAH4546 : I believe a 752ER can pull off LGW-IND if equipped with winglets, but it is stretching it. Though, that's besides the point: IND is not an authorized
35 Chase : Are there currently any direct (i.e. same plane) IND-???-Europe flights? I'm guessing no, but if so, that may be a good indicator of what nonstop flig
36 Indy : I will try and get a picture of the international arrivals building today just so people not from the area can get an idea how bad of a setup I am tal
37 Vega : If you want to take that flight - be my guest. I would assume that any international service to Europe from IND would be approved way later than "Ope
38 Steeler83 : Those numbers do seem fairly large. I took 122,000 and divided that by 365 to see the expected number of people going to and from Europe per day, and
39 Indy : That is 122,000 Europeans in addition to 218,000 Hoosiers. Thats 244,000 to Europe from Indiana each year.
40 Cospn : Nothing Untill the New Terminal opens the "International Shack" at Indianapolis is not accepatale to any international airline...
41 Post contains images Steeler83 : Right, you essentially cleared that up I believe in your IM on here
42 Indy : Crap. I took a hundred pics today and forgot to get a pic of the shack. BTW that is a pretty good name for it.
43 Fedexexpress : China Airlines comes to IND!!!!!!!!!!! HaHaHaHa
44 COSPN : Yes Indy would love to see some Pictures...of "the Shack"...btw not the only one LIR Liberia, Costa Rica has one...no Aircon, so they have a the World
45 Bond007 : What some people seem to be missing here is if there is ONE flight from IND to Europe ...where is it going? Is it LHR? CDG? AMS? It isn't where all th
46 Indy : I'm sorry. I completely blew it again the other day. I will do my best to make a special trip out to the airport and go directly over to internationa
47 Fedexexpress : I would take the return flight from AMS to IND non-stop and miss the cattle call in DTW or ORD any day, and when i step off that flight I am home! My
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