Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Does DFW Not Have Many International Airlines?  
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12189 times:

I've always wondered why DFW is so lacking in international carriers. We get AM, Mexicana, BA, LH, KE, and that's about it. DFW is a growing metropolis with many different companies. With the new international terminal D, I would hope that some of the airlines come back, such as AF, LX, maybe IB..among other candidates.

AA has so many connections to the western US, South America, Central America, and others. I've always wondered why BA only has one flight (777) and not multiple 744's! While there are 2 daily AA flights and 1 BA 777 flight to LGW, IAH gets more international service than DFW. I know this is an ongoing question, but doesn't DFW deserve the service as One World's LARGEST hub, and the 2nd or 3rd most busiest airport in the US??

As a former Dallas resident, and hoping to return to Dallas, I would really like to see my home airport get a lot more service. Even perhaps a Lan Chile flight to SCL!

Why is it DFW is doomed as far as international airlines are concerned? There are so many One World Connection there via AA. What's going on? I know that DFW Airport Authority was hoping for more international airlines due to the event of the new international terminal. So where are our airlines?

Japan Airlines and Cathay Pacific are another two I'd wish I'd see at DFW, even EVA Air after their 772LR order, and QF! So many connections and possibilities that cannot only be covered by AA!



UAL

146 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12189 times:

Because they don't have a billion dollar "international terminal" with a multitude of empty gates waiting to be used that has put the airport in a financial bind.....


..... oh wait.. they do.... I guess i've been no help.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12175 times:

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Houston is well established in the international runs. They have had KLM for many years and also host the likes of BA, AF, LH, CI, and others. Many foreign carriers see the demand for a market to Texas from their respective hub. They probably do not want to tie up aircraft trying to serve two Texas cities instead of one. DFW is probably seen as a quick connection from IAH in some respects.

I do agree that DFW probably deserves more carriers, but it seems like IAH got there first. Houston is the single largest Texas city and the population overall is similar to DFW, so there is not much of an incentive to serve both Texas cities or to switch from IAH to DFW.


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12162 times:

Actually, AM and Mexicana are gone. We do have a growing international cargo area. China Airlines, Air China, China Eastern, JAL, Lufthansa, Air France, Singapore, Korean, Cathay Pacific, and Eva Air all have scheduled cargo operations into DFW on jumbos.

The other reason is AA. They have nonstop flights to just about anywhere internationally you could want to go.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12130 times:

I realize that AA goes about everywhere in their route system from DFW, but connection wise, DFW has way more options for other airlines to codeshare on AA domestic flights than any other AA hub. I seriously think while Qantas is looking at DFW, more airlines should consider the airport for connections. You can get just about anywhere via DFW, several times a day. I wish Delta hadn't gone away so much at DFW, because I think it was a great lower midwest hub for them, and they could feed skyteam airlines many destinations. Anyway, back to OneWorld. I think IB should be very interested in DFW, because of the Latin America destinations. While MIA probably beats DFW in this area, I think DFW is still deserving of an IB flight from MAD since AA has none, and there are many Central and Southern America routes.

Onto ORD, does anyone think that AA will start an ORD-TLV route to compete with the other middle eastern routes a la DL ATL-TLV, CO EWR-TLV, and UA IAD-KWI? How about a DFW-RUH, or ORD-CAI route?

UAL


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12130 times:

One word- AmericanAirlines (or is that two?) is one big reason. Smaller factors include the local business model, geography, and ethnic diversity.

Houston's business and industry are a bit more suited to international travel and trade. There is a reason Houston has over 80 foreign consulates, for example.

DFW gets many of the same destinations as IAH, just not the competition (and in many cases IAH gets the cheaper prices). IAH will continue to have more international pax for a long time IMO.

The DFW board is doing a great job with cargo airlines. EDIT-bad code

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet

[Edited 2006-06-30 04:36:33]

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11362 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12062 times:

Is Dallas a destination that's on the minds of many foreign citizens? If not, maybe that's why.


Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12048 times:

Well, who wants to go to Houston? No zoning, terrible city planning, etc.....


I dunno, but I'm a big DFW fan, just want to see my home airport get some more service. At least from One World members. There are 3xDaily BA flights to IAH, only one to DFW. There should be a DFW-ORD-LHR route at the least, or a 747-400 service from LGW, even though the BA 777's are only on Gatwick routes.

UAL


User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12048 times:

Simple Question.

It is a question of demand. Unless there is a solid mix of O & D onboard traffic flights aren't as profitable. Excessive revenue prorate dilutes trip revenues.

DFW just doesn't have strong O&D international demand.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineTWAtwaTWA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

As much as I like Dallas as a city, it lags other cities in several areas, contributing to its relative lack of demand for international flights. I have collated this data here; Dallas residents and fans, please do not take offense.

I think we would all agree that greater a city's population the higher the demand for international travel through leisure and business travellers. Dallas does not rank at the top end of the largest cities in america. The Dallas-Fort Worth area is the ninth largest metropolitan area in the US.(1) It is also the ninth in strict city population rank.(2) The top few are NYC, LA, Wash DC, and SF.

A more ethnically diverse and immigrant based population will also demand a higher degree of international travel due to family roots and business interests abroad. The Dallas-Fort Worth area is ranked 15th in diversity by the Brookings Group. In contrast, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington DC, and NYC are the top 4.

International business and large scale corporate business within a city generates international travel demand. Inc.com does not even rank Dallas in the top 25 places to do business. (4) Forbes does not rank Dallas in the top 10 places to do business (Houston is #4) (5) Of course, this is not to say that Dallas is not a good place to do business, or that there are not already many corporations headquarted in Dallas- this simply depicts a comparison with other cities that simply have more business demand.

Recently the concept of a "global city" or a "world city" has been introduced. (6) A world city is an internationally "important" city with cultural and economic contributions that generate tourist interest, diversity, affluence, and business. Dallas ranks in the third tier as a gamma world city with 6 points. Other North American cities in the higher tiers are New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Toronto and Mexico City.

There were other categories of rankings as well...in the top ten rankings of world cities for various points, it only hits in the category of "Airports with annual passenger traffic" This brings up the point that the majority of people flying into DFW (60%) are catching connections in AA's major domestic hub. These are mostly domestic connections from smaller american cities to other smaller cities or larger cities in AA's network. AA has "international gateways" LAX and JFK, as well as two other major international hubs , MIA and ORD, that serve to handle more of the international connections from fellow oneworld carriers and also AA's own international flights.

In summary, Dallas-Fort Worth is a large major metropolitan american city, but does not demand the same international travel as the other larger american cities. In addition, the AA network structure has built a very large domestic hub in Dallas, with other AA hubs and "gateway" cities functioning to serve more international travel connections.

___________________________________
(1) http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884087.html
(2) http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html
(3) http://www.brookings.org/press/review/winter2002/florida.htm
(4) http://www.inc.com/magazine/20040301/top25.html
(5) http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/04/bes...cz_kb_06bestplaces_0504topten.html
(6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city



We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 7):
Well, who wants to go to Houston? No zoning, terrible city planning, etc.....

Well more people than DFW it seems, since there is also lower crime, lower cost of living, etc etc.....

If BA could make money with that flight they would do it, don't you think? (note BillReid's post) Be happy that QANTAS might actually fly there. Heck maybe Air France will come back in the near future.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Dutch RVs and German Autobahns don't mix


User currently offlineReins485 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11973 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):


Onto ORD, does anyone think that AA will start an ORD-TLV route to compete with the other middle eastern routes a la DL ATL-TLV, CO EWR-TLV, and UA IAD-KWI? How about a DFW-RUH, or ORD-CAI route?

I do not think you will see AA metal flying to the middle east any time soon. I think the threat to them would be greater than any other airline due to the fact that their name is American Airlines. Just my thought.
Alex


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3958 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11973 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 7):
Well, who wants to go to Houston? No zoning, terrible city planning, etc.....

Who the hell wants to go to Dallas? Arrogant, obnoxious population, terrible city planning......

Bottom line, few have Dallas or Houston on their must visit lists, it's all about business. At this point Houston has it, Dallas seemingly does not. Who knows, oil might drop to $12 a barrel, Houston's economy could tank and the likes of KL, AF, BA, LH might bolt on IAH and head for greener pastures in 'Big-D'.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11955 times:

In DFW isn't there AF going there...

DFW is in Middle of the USA... Not very reachable from every where...
Most of international goes to JFK, EWR, CVG, IAD, BOS, ATL, MIA, DTW, PHL, MCO, (Atlantic) SEA, MSP, LAX, SFO, DEN, PDX, HNL, (Pacific)

DFW is the farthest from either the Atlantic or Pacifique Ocean? from the airport name above...

What is there to do or see in Dallas... beside AA HUB???

True thought DFW and IAH are not that much apart...


User currently offlineEdelag From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11955 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 6):
Is Dallas a destination that's on the minds of many foreign citizens? If not, maybe that's why.

I think it isn't but many foreign people do travel through DFW. In the past year I have connected there about 6 times. But then again out of the 6 times all of them have been with AA.

AA is the emperor, president, chief, general, etc of DFW.



It's not just the destination, it's the journey.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11648 posts, RR: 61
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11890 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I've always wondered why DFW is so lacking in international carriers. We get AM, Mexicana, BA, LH, KE, and that's about it.

Unfortunately, the airport has actually even lost scheduled Aeromexico and Mexicana flights in the last few months. However, both still run charters on a very regular basis, and scheduled Mexicana flights will be returning shortly to MEX, with other cities possibly to follow.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
With the new international terminal D, I would hope that some of the airlines come back, such as AF, LX, maybe IB..among other candidates.

Air France won't be coming back, as the main draw the first time around -- namely the connections offered by the Delta hub -- is now gone. SWISS (LX) never flew to Dallas/Fort Worth, but SABENA -- now gone -- did. They, too, are never coming back. Iberia has never flown to D/FW, and I won't say that they'll never make it there. But I don't think it will be for many, many years if it ever happens. If they can effectively leverage the Madrid hub, and develop a stronger market for flights to the U.S. (beyond their current schedule of Chicago, JFK and Miami alone) then D/FW may -- in the distant future -- present a viable opportunity to plug into one of the largest hubs on earth, that happens to be dominated by their partner American.

Personally, carriers that I think could easily make D/FW work:

. Air-India: A daily flight from Mumbai or Delhi to D/FW via any one of several European cities (Paris would probably work best) could easily work because of huge cultural and economic connections between the Metroplex and South Asia, and between India and generally the entire southern U.S.

. Cathay Pacific: A daily flight linking D/FW to Hong Kong is virtually a no-brainer. Connect one of the largest and best-positioned (most centrally located) hubs in the U.S., D/W, with one of the largest and best-positioned (most centrally located) hubs in Asia, Hong Kong. However, unfortunately, either American and/or Cathay will most likely link Chicago to Hong Kong long before D/FW.

. JAL: I think that JAL could probably make a few (3-4) flights per week NRT-DFW work to back up American on the route. Scheduled well, they could bolster the two airlines' joint schedule on the route, and improve connections between JAL arriving flights from Asia and onward connections to the U.S. I don't think it could support a 747-400, as it once did, but a 777 could make it, IMO.

. Qantas: This one is basically a no-brainer, and is more a matter of "when," not "if," as far as I'm concerned. Qantas itself has made clear on numerous occasions that this is a market they want to be in, and a daily Sydney-D/FW flight with a 747-400 could easily fill up with no problem based on just the monumental connecting opportunities alone, to say nothing of those trying to avoid LAX like the plague.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
AA has so many connections to the western US, South America, Central America, and others.

You just answered your own question. The main reason why D/FW doesn't see a lot of foreign airlines is that American has such a huge hub and so largely dominates the market. American flies to many international cities, most of them in Mexico and Latin America, which is to be expected for a hub in Texas.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I've always wondered why BA only has one flight (777) and not multiple 744's!

D/FW is a great city. The Metroplex is a great place to live, work and do business. I grew up there, and I love the place. But, to be quite candid, the market is nowhere near big enough, American or no American, to support multiple 747s each day to London. The current 3 daily flights (2 American, 1 BA) is more than sufficient.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
While there are 2 daily AA flights and 1 BA 777 flight to LGW, IAH gets more international service than DFW.

Houston is seen by many as far more of an "international" city, largely because of the oil business, which drives an enormous amount of demand from airlines all vying for the lucrative traffic linking Houston (the oil capital of the Earth, basically) with far off places like the Middle East, the North Sea, Rio, etc. D/FW does not benefit from this large amount of oil-driven traffic, and as such does not enjoy nearly as much international capacity from nearly as diverse a list of foreign carriers.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11869 times:

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 13):
In DFW isn't there AF going there...

AF left, no discussions of returning in the near-term

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 10):
Well more people than DFW it seems, since there is also lower crime, lower cost of living, etc etc.....

Actually, the DFW metroplex is about 500,000 people larger than Houston. That's basically an entire El Paso thrown in for good measure.

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 9):
The Dallas-Fort Worth area is the ninth largest metropolitan area in the US.

Nope, DFW is number 5. Behind:

(1) NYC - 18.7 million
(2) Los Angeles - 12.9 million
(3) Chicago - 9.4 million
(4) Philidelphia - 5.8 million
(5) DFW - 5.7 million

(7) Houston - 5.2 million

For the record, Houston is the seventh largest metro area, and Dallas alone is the 9th largest. Throw in Fort Worth, #20, and a host of massive suburbs, and DFW supports a massive population.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 5):
The DFW board is doing a great job with cargo airlines. EDIT-bad code

And it should be said that there are some big bucks behind that cargo..

While I wish that DFW had some more international diversity from an enthusiest standpoint, I wouldn't trade the airport for anything. In terms of sheer economic contribution, nothing in Texas and only a handful of national/global facilities come close to matching DFW.

If it were not for DFW, there would be no DFW metroplex around it. At least, not as we know it.


User currently offlineTWAtwaTWA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11858 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 15):
. Qantas: This one is basically a no-brainer, and is more a matter of "when," not "if," as far as I'm concerned. Qantas itself has made clear on numerous occasions that this is a market they want to be in, and a daily Sydney-D/FW flight with a 747-400 could easily fill up with no problem based on just the monumental connecting opportunities alone, to say nothing of those trying to avoid LAX like the plague

As much as I agree that QF will link to DFW, I have to point out that the QF-AA connections at LAX are quite easy. Most of the connections occur in the small comfortable AA terminal T4, and the ones that do not are just in the next terminal that is literally a small stroll away. I think that the DFW airport is much more difficult for connections; DFW was built for ease of local passengers arriving and departing. It is so spread out that connections are not that easy.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 15):
. Cathay Pacific: A daily flight linking D/FW to Hong Kong is virtually a no-brainer. Connect one of the largest and best-positioned (most centrally located) hubs in the U.S., D/W, with one of the largest and best-positioned (most centrally located) hubs in Asia, Hong Kong. However, unfortunately, either American and/or Cathay will most likely link Chicago to Hong Kong long before D/FW

Right now Cathay has flights into LAX that interface the AA network. I agree that Chicago, for the reasons that I pointed out in reply #9 is much more likely to have Cathay flights for local traffic as well as to link to AA's network.



We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11858 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Actually, the DFW metroplex is about 500,000 people larger than Houston. That's basically an entire El Paso thrown in for good measure

No, talking about international pax traffic referenced in the post above not census MSAs. (though Houston itself has a higher growth rate)

I am aware of the MSAs. I did population data work for that state as an undergrad many moons ago.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Dutch girls are easy


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11843 times:

i think it is because LAX/SFO, ORD and NYC are closer to more of the US population.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineScintx From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 270 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11843 times:

Now that I have a forum to speak my opinion. I have told many of my friends that terminal D was 20 years to late. I do not fly international, work for an airline or any other connection. It has always appeared to me IAH was far ahead of DFW on international carriers. If you look over the last 25 years DFW has landed several international airlines. My belief has been the lack of an international terminal has been a problem. Now that we have terminal D and lets face it this is another AA terminal with a few available gates. Just my .02 cents.


Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
User currently offlineTWAtwaTWA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11815 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 9):
The Dallas-Fort Worth area is the ninth largest metropolitan area in the US.

Nope, DFW is number 5. Behind:

(1) NYC - 18.7 million
(2) Los Angeles - 12.9 million
(3) Chicago - 9.4 million
(4) Philidelphia - 5.8 million
(5) DFW - 5.7 million

(7) Houston - 5.2 million

For the record, Houston is the seventh largest metro area, and Dallas alone is the 9th largest. Throw in Fort Worth, #20, and a host of massive suburbs, and DFW supports a massive population.

Actually my data on the Dallas Fort Worth area ranking #9 is based on the US 2000 census data.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884087.html



We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3299 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 17):
I think that the DFW airport is much more difficult for connections; DFW was built for ease of local passengers arriving and departing. It is so spread out that connections are not that easy.

While I agree with you that without a doubt, DFW was built with O&D passengers in mind, DFW is by no means difficult to transit in. Sure, it requires a little walking, but when does connecting not? Have you used the Skylink yet? It is the easiest, most efficient airport train I have come across. Multi-directional, too, which certainly makes things easy. DFW advertised it as being able to connect the two farthest gates in 8 minutes, which is far better than the TrAAin could have ever done.  Smile

Not to mention the views!

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11786 times:

The other day, as I was flying out of the beautiful, $1 billion international at my home airport, DFW, I noticed, not only the usual KE cargo 747 that I usually see, but I think I saw a Cathay 742... I can't remember. It was a 742, I remember for sure, I just can't remember whos it was. I also saw, much to my excitement an EVA cargo MD-11! I didn't know we got any other far eastern cargo service other than KE. I have seen the 744 come in on more than one occaision, but didn't know we received older models as well. I'm assuming these flights had a tech stop in Anchorage?


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineNateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11781 times:

Among other factors, http://houston.org/industryGuide/energy.asp

Houston is also a great manufacturing center and the Port of Houston leads the US in foreign tonnage. The primary industries in Houston just have a far greater international scope. What could be more global than the energy business? Throw in a more diverse population, thriving economy, etc...

Houston should lead Dallas for a long time.



Set Love Free
25 Post contains links Commavia : Maybe you think it's easy to transit, and I'll agree that it sometimes is, especially if you arrive and depart in the beautiful Terminal 4. However,
26 DfwRevolution : And 2006 was six years ago and your source shows a rate of 29% population growth over the last decade. Things haven't exactly slowed down either. If
27 Post contains images Jacobin777 : AA can't fly to TLV due to some problems TWA had....it had to do with AA suspending the flight to TLV and not paying the "serverance packages".. I wo
28 BHMNONREV : Unfortunately LAX has only a small fraction of the connections that DFW does, and while I will admit that at one time DFW was a connecting nightmare,
29 Post contains links TWAtwaTWA : Everyone's points are well taken, and it's true that there are many reasons for international flights to come to Dallas. The summary I posted (post 9
30 Ualcsr : You can define the population of a city by the number of people living within an actual governmental unit, or by a combination of close governmental u
31 ArtieFufkin : It's a simple matter of geography. The DFW Metroplex on the East or West Coast would attract massive amounts of International flights. Being in the ce
32 Wave882 : I recall Thai serving DFW when I was there in the '88-89 or mid-90's period, can't remember which. Think the routing was through LAX. So, DFW not only
33 ZK-NBT : Air NZ flew to DFW is the late 1980's for a while routing was something like AKL-PPT-DFW-LGW-FRA.
34 MAH4546 : AA tried Dallas-Madrid, didn't work well at all. Every city south of Mexico that AA flies to from Dallas is served by Iberia from Madrid, except for
35 Post contains images Dolphinflyer : Most carriers are afraid of the Big Bad Wolf (i.e. AA). I agree with a couple other posts that a lot of international carriers want to include Texas i
36 N1120A : Actually, DFW is number 4 behind ATL, ORD and LAX. AA will likely start LAX-THR before ORD-TLV That is very short sighted Wow, I just love how bad Wi
37 MAH4546 : I agree, but the US Census officially seperated Ontario from LA and San Jose from SF/Oakland in 2003. They came as a huge surprised, because at the s
38 PNQIAD : AI would probably start IAH before DFW since that is a bigger market. Also, IAD might be higher on AI list than DFW given the size of DC metro area a
39 Cornish : both IAD and IAH are much higher on the AI list than DFW - both are being looked at seriously - possibly as one joint service. Well clearly for Europ
40 Post contains links Texan : Because I feel like repeating what other people have said, Dallas is the 6th largest area if the SFO/OAK/SJC area is counted as one. The DFW area had
41 Texdravid : Wow, it's interesting how this topic comes up every so often. This topic is one of the main reasons I joined A.net a few years ago with the heading "D
42 Incitatus : Atlanta is a better comparison to Dallas than Houston is. Houston's longhaul days go back to PanAm and there is far more oil-related business located
43 Post contains images Jacobin777 : my bad..I was thinking of the extensive route out of MIA... ...
44 102IAHexpress : The posts above sum up the situation pretty well. And IMO DFW biggest obstacle seems to be AA. Kind of interesting though; for all the bending over ba
45 Commavia : It would be unfortunate, however, to conclude that the Metroplex basically gets nothing out of AA but high fares and no new flights. The Metroplex ha
46 Travelin man : I guess that's where the saying "different strokes for different folks" came from. NY, Chicago, and LA are all much better places to live an work in
47 Texshark1990 : Perhaps this may shed light on why IAH has more International Airlines. Plus Houston is #2 in the US for number of Fortune 500 HQ, second only to NYC.
48 Jcavinato : Houston has more industries that are internationally oriented than Dallas/Ft. Worth. Mostly oil/gas/chemical. Plus, those industries are ones that fil
49 Naritaflyer : Dallas is a domestic city that's why. Not much international traffic to and from Dallas exists or else airlines would be clamouring to serve it.
50 AirbusfanYYZ : I have been to DFW and IAH many times on business and have large numbers of family in each city but I cannot honestly think of one significant touris
51 Cloudy : I don't think security would prevent AA from flying in the Middle East. The places in the Middle East worth flying to (The Gulf States, Israel, Egypt,
52 MGA : TACA/LACSA is an international airline that flies to DFW... MGA
53 Commavia : Sure it would. AA landing in the Middle East is only slightly better than landing a plane in the Middle East that says, "Please Bomb Here." Sad, but
54 N1120A : That is an arrogant statement at the very least. Any airplane with a US flag on it might be the subject of that kind of threat, but might also be kep
55 UAL747 : I seriously doubt UA would start the upcoming IAD-KWI flight given your ideology.
56 Texdravid : Well, people in California have no business telling anyone about urban planning, for goodness sake! As for Louisiana, well, the less said, the better
57 N1120A : At least we understand the realities of population growth and don't just propose slapping down more freeway lanes as the solution. Yeah, I guess Texa
58 Texdravid : Whatever, N1120A. Good day to you. Hope your Texas bashing makes you feel better.
59 UAL747 : Whoa there N1120A, Texas is a great piece of property full of prosperity, beautiful cities, and great lakes. Lots of money to be had in Texas. It's ha
60 Coa747 : Yeah cause California is a model for what? Rediculous taxes, rediculous housing prices, dependency on other states for electricity water and just abo
61 Post contains images Jacobin777 : UA is starting IAD-KWI..not to mention, there are tons of Middle Eastern Air Carriers such as SV, EK, RJ, KU, etc. flying to the United States... Bef
62 MAH4546 : AA actually planned on continuing TWA's JFK-CAI-RUH route with their own metal, but it was just losing too much money.
63 Avi8tir : well there sure is one thing that houston has that dallas doesnt.... and its called oil refineries.
64 Commavia : Arrogant? Hardly. I'm simply saying that the Middle East isn't exactly the most America-friendly place on earth right now, and so sending a plane int
65 UAL747 : Eh, I still don't buy that logic, but I agree with you on what you said about Texas and many of the "Flyover States". The "coasties" are ignorant abo
66 FCYTravis : That's because AA has a couple flights, and furthermore AA and BA cannot codeshare or cooperate in any way on transatlantic flights, which means the
67 Post contains links and images Tismfu : If it isn't Houston/Dallas bashing, it's Texas bashing... somethings never change on a.net. Kids, can't we play nice? All this schoolyard "my ---- is
68 Thomasphoto60 : Texas is a costal state, but I get your point. As fo N1120A's enlightened comments, well as my father often said "consider the source". He is a renow
69 Post contains images Jacobin777 : thanks for the info... the way international travel has expanded the past 5-6 years, I think a flight to CAI just might work... EK's DXB-JFK-DXB (as
70 MainMAN : But Houston is only known in terms of NASA to most foreigners. Dallas means *Texas*. Other than that, we have no idea about the comparative size and
71 UAL747 : I think Dallas is a little more "chic" than Houston. Houston is a man's man, good 'ole boy town full of millionaire/billionaire oil tycoons, with a lo
72 Travelin man : The fact remains that when you think "tourist destination" you do not think of either Dallas or Houston. Yes, JFK was shot in Dallas. Yes, the Johnson
73 HOUIAH : I am trying to think of a mature, logical response to this. Much like Airbus v. Boeing fills alot of the forums on A.net, Dallas v. Houston is a big
74 MainMAN : Speak for yourself mate, I'd love to go to either Dallas or Houston. JFK and the Johnson Space Centre have got nothing to do with it, it's largely th
75 Commavia : So incredibly true. Texas are a very unique bunch of people, unlike any other culture I have ever encountered anywhere else in the world. There are e
76 ArtieFufkin : Ah Texas! The Lone Star State. Scores on the low end of almost every socioeconomic stat. "The 1998 Kids Count --A Profile of America's Children, prepa
77 Thomasphoto60 : How? Agreed Really? And that's a good thing? Sorry, but H-Town blows Big D away in the gastronomic arena. Thomas
78 Post contains links Lt-AWACS : gee "Artie" and the same study had New York at 25 hmm http://www.aecf.org/kidscount/sld/profile_results.jsp?r=34&d=1 By your logic you need to move to
79 Thomasphoto60 : And you reside where......? Thomas
80 ArtieFufkin : That's your point that NY is 25th (the mid point) and TX 37th? The latest numbers have NY rising to 23 and Texas dropped to 39? Not to mention NY's hi
81 Lt-AWACS : My point is the whole study slams the United States and no "large state" is above 20. So kid, I ask again, when are you moving to Canada, a country wi
82 FRAspotter : From the "World Almanac 2006", Houston is actually the 4th largest city behind NYC, LA, and Chicago. I actually flew into DFW today from FRA on AA71.
83 ArtieFufkin : Got it. So when you tell a Texan something he doesn't want to hear (like the truth) He's being "slammed"....LOL.
84 Thomasphoto60 : That is the population for the city proper, the numbers quoted are from CMSA (Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area) and MSA numbers. These incl
85 Post contains links Tismfu : DFWRevolution's list was of metropolitan statistical areas (Dallas + Ft. Worth + mid cities, etc.). In terms of pure city limit population numbers, h
86 Thomasphoto60 : Have you ever been to Texas or are you just digging up numbers and stats to deflate some some of the Texas egos? I am sure I could pull up some unfla
87 Douwd20 : That could be the reason right there. Why go anywhere other than Texas? Let alone fly to some other country.
88 102IAHexpress : It’s interesting, with the recent population shift caused by Hurricane Katrina on top of the already fast rate of growth some are predicting that b
89 Thomasphoto60 : I've heard that but I would not put too much stock into those comments. I believe that H-Town will pass Chi-Town one day but certainly not by 2010. T
90 Lt-AWACS : What Texan did you tell what? Who was told anything they didn't want to hear? Who was "slammed"? Are you confused and referencing other posts?Where a
91 ArtieFufkin : Thomas, since you ask. I actually ate last week at Cooper's Old Time BBQ in Llano, took the family to the Schlitterbaun, and slept at a B&B in Fredric
92 102IAHexpress : Back on topic. How does the new international terminal at DFW factor in when trying to lour new international carriers? Do the new digs raise the cost
93 Thomasphoto60 : Fair enough. Thomas
94 Texdravid : This is such a great example of someone using a PART of a sentence I wrote and using this portion to bash and make generalizations. Here is the WHOLE
95 Thomasphoto60 : Agreed. According to a number of old timer IAH'ers, (I was not living in Houston then) the then newly constructed IAB (now 'D') terminal in the late
96 Thomasphoto60 : Nice call Texdravid, indeed you were misquoted. Thomas
97 Post contains images Okelleynyc : While it's not related to international passenger travel, Alliance Airport is digging into DFW's cargo business. I read somewhere that Ross Perot Jr.'
98 AAden : BA has alot of code share flights with AA. Also Houston has alot of international traffic. there isn't much of a market not controlled by AA.
99 Tismfu : To add on, another thing to consider is the need to plan for future growth. Sure, DFW could've designed D to be much smaller, but 2, 5, 10 years down
100 Avatordon : Being a JAL employee, I'd like to see one of the NRT-ORD flights moved "south" to DFW. DFW may not have the feed that ORD does, but it does have feed
101 Petmbro : I know there is a lot of bad blood between AA and Israel but could AA simply repay the money they owe to the employees plus a legal fee to the govern
102 Ktachiya : I didn't read all the posts but isn't DFW a hub for AA? So then AA would have a strong network out of there right? For instance, ask this question. Wh
103 AA777223 : Have you ever been to Dallas?! This is simply false. Dallas has one of the highest ratios of restaurants per capita in the WORLD. Four times greater
104 777STL : It's not so much that NW is so big, but rather Minneapolis as a metropolitan area just doesn't have the business and the O&D to support other interna
105 Thomasphoto60 : More times than I care to remember (at least once a month). I'll see if I can dig up some numbers. Thomas
106 NateDAL : No, it is the other way around.
107 Jacobin777 : dont' know exactly the monies owed, but might not be worth it, especially given that AA can codeshare with other carriers such as LY...... I still th
108 Post contains images Tcttx : As is AC, but I guess it doesn't count as an international airline unless it crosses an ocean?
109 AA777223 : Not a chance! Dallas has so many more restaurants, and the city in general is much more hip and chic. It is much more of a cultural mecca with many m
110 TWAtwaTWA : One thing we have learned from this thread is the well known motto: "Don't Mess With Texas!" But I have to mess with one: The reason some people are l
111 Post contains links Tismfu : Numbers are rather meaningless in this silly gastronomic sub-debate. Personal preferences are just that. Not facts. If someone prefers the aliment of
112 Lt-AWACS : To continue the digression... Well Wine Spectator, Zagats, and Frommers have all had "food" city rankings and the general consensus in the top 5 goes
113 Luv2fly : Yes that is it, and if they did the ex employees could sieze the plane for payments owed.
114 Post contains images NateDAL : Well said.
115 AA777223 : If I remember correctly, it is Houston, that is considered "the fattest city in the US" because they have the most... FAST FOOD restaurants! (how gauc
116 Floridaflyboy : Ooh, I know this one! SOmehow, some way, it must be Love Field's fault, right? Just kidding.
117 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : No one magazine had such a list but this year Houston is not #1 (Dallas was #4 BTW during the last year Houston was1) and they did not have the most
118 Legion242 : It may be miles OT, but I love the friendly ribbing re: DFW v. HOU. Being a life long Dallas resident, I never even went to Houston until I was in my
119 AA777223 : I love Ft. Worth, but to commend it only deepens the question of why DFW is served by so few international airlines. After all, the FW in DFW stands
120 PennStation : To compare the Dallas/Ft Worth area to the Houston area has some merit. To compare the cities of Dallas and Houston is like comparing apples to orange
121 Lt-AWACS : Well seeing as over 100 square miles of that 639 sq miles area is two flood control reservoirs, four airports, a ship channel, a large lake and the ci
122 Post contains images PennStation : Dallas has roughly 60% of Houston's surface area, and roughly 60% of Houston's population. It seems that population density is similar. Dallas must h
123 VV701 : And recognise that even if you could not fly direct from MAD to anywhere in Latin America you can reach direct from DFW, the flight times from MAD to
124 NAVEGA : TEXAN Mexicana is back as of yesterday with 2 daily non stops to Mexico City and from what I have heard from friends there, the first two flights were
125 Post contains images N1120A : When did I say "California has bigger houses, so we win"? The mess I was talking about is the sheer lack of urban planning that has caused an ecologi
126 Post contains links Lt-AWACS : n1120a your post has many inaccuracies/half truths- Groceries in Texas are not taxed, only prepared meals http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxpub
127 JGPH1A : This might go some way to explaining the problem - if the PR guys for IAH can't even be bothered to look on a map and find out where Qatar REALLY is
128 Post contains links Thomasphoto60 : Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 127): if the PR guys for IAH can't even be bothered to look on a map and find out where Qatar REALLY is (i.e. not in Africa, not
129 JGPH1A : Well done, in that case. Sad that they haven't corrected their mistake, they must know that Qatar Airways is likely to have read the release - of cou
130 Longhornmaniac : Yes you do. When you finally get down here, PM me, and I'll show you the parts of Texas that don't come close to fitting the stereotype that most peo
131 Thomasphoto60 : While I have 'grown' to love Houston and yes it took some time. However I fell in love with Austin (as well as San Antonio) from the get go. Indeed,
132 Commavia : Are you -- honestly -- going to compare taxation in California (often called the "People's Republic of California") with Texas? I mean, honestly, I j
133 Legion242 : Who is the great speller? How the hell did water come into play? We drink our own water from our own reservoirs- are you bragging that you take water
134 Post contains links TWAtwaTWA : While agree that the comment you were rebuking deserved to be rebuked, I have to make a few comments about Texas taxes to keep this discussion honest
135 Post contains links Commavia : What about it? Even factoring in property taxes and sales tax, Texas still has among the lowest tax burdens of any country in the nation. The numbers
136 Post contains images TWAtwaTWA : Agreed. Now let's get back to the discussion at hand... Are the landing fees at DFW higher than other airports? I understand that the fees are about
137 MSYtristar : For the record, I think downtown Dallas is pretty boring overall. Just not that much to do. The art museum was nice, that's pretty much it. It seemed
138 Commavia : You can't really compare any airport to Love Field. Love Field has artificially low landing fees that have been kept that way for years to keep South
139 N1120A : And California recieves 1/3rd what it contributes, having the most lop sided payment/benefit in the country 9 times, including studying there twice Y
140 Longhornmaniac : Which theater?? Any ideas?? Cheers, Cameron
141 N1120A : Can't remember. I need to give him a call actually.
142 Lt-AWACS : Then you should know of the traffic stau, thus your traffic statement makes even less sense. Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns, Capt-AWACS, You better Belize
143 BOAC911 : Are DFW's landing fees higher than those of IAH?
144 Intermodal64 : BOS, NYC, SFO, MIA, CHI, HOU (really Galveston pre 1900 hurricane) are traditional gateway cities with very long histories of attracting immigrants fr
145 Legion242 : How right you are!!!
146 Brons2 : your best quote in this thread. Louisiana? How can anyone in Louisiana claim superiority to well, anywhere? Don't let the door hit you in the backsid
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Does AC Not Have Dedicated Freighters posted Mon Dec 6 2004 03:28:54 by Dakotasport
Why Does WN Not Operate International Flights? posted Sun Apr 10 2005 13:00:14 by Gilesdavies
Why Does US Airways Have So Many Gates @ Ksyr? posted Tue Apr 6 2004 16:09:18 by B727
Why Does A WN 737 Have An AA Tail Number? posted Sun Mar 26 2006 23:00:31 by AA777SJC
Why Does DL Not Return To CAK? posted Tue Feb 28 2006 11:42:59 by Jetpixx
Why Does Airbus Not Offer More Types Of Freighters posted Fri May 27 2005 08:15:09 by 707437
Why Does WN Not Fly Any Red-eyes? posted Mon Mar 21 2005 12:22:13 by RDUDDJI
Why Does EasyJet Not Fly To Belgium? posted Sun Mar 20 2005 10:59:17 by RootsAir
Why Does Easyjet Not Display The Union Jack? posted Sat Jan 8 2005 02:13:12 by Jonty
Why Does BA Not Display The Union Jack? posted Sun Nov 14 2004 03:20:14 by Jonty