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US Airways Interested In Merging With DL Or NW  
User currently offlineJustapassenger From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13624 times:

It looks like America West (now US) wants to become one of the big 3 by specializing in merging with airlines just coming out of bankruptcy.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06181/702279-28.stm

I found the article very interesting and one paragraph summarizes what US CEO Parker is thinking:

“… as Delta and Northwest get closer to emerging from bankruptcy, they may look for a merger partner on the way out, as US Airways did in 2005, and if that happens "we will be there to talk to them," Mr. Parker said. "It's not like something is certainly going on or we are actively working on anything right now." But, "we can't ignore it. It is too big a deal, and it may not come around again." “

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7557 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13606 times:

Quoting Justapassenger (Thread starter):
I found the article very interesting and one paragraph summarizes what US CEO Parker is thinking:

“… as Delta and Northwest get closer to emerging from bankruptcy, they may look for a merger partner on the way out, as US Airways did in 2005, and if that happens "we will be there to talk to them," Mr. Parker said. "It's not like something is certainly going on or we are actively working on anything right now." But, "we can't ignore it. It is too big a deal, and it may not come around again." “

Will that mean we'll see DL & NW heritage liveries (including Northeast, Western, Republic & North Central) in the works?

IMHO, Parker may be biting off more than he can chew should he pursue DL and/or NW too soon.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineNewSky From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13550 times:

US sure do like their mergers don't they!

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13527 times:

Too bad though that neither carrier would want such a merger to happen  Wink . Besides which, could you imagine the uproar of the DOT over a merged DL/US entity? Domination in BOS, domination at LGA, domination at DCA, large presence at PHL, large presence at JFK? Too much Northeast domination for the DOT to ever allow such a merger to happen.

User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13449 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 1):
Will that mean we'll see DL & NW heritage liveries (including Northeast, Western, Republic & North Central) in the works?

Well, any talk of Republic would have to include a couple of these babies in retro colors. NW has enough DC-9's still around..


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Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 1):
IMHO, Parker may be biting off more than he can chew should he pursue DL and/or NW too soon.

No question...


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 13270 times:

This ain't going to happen! DOT won't let it happen, NW & DL don't want it to happen! And, HP would be foolish to try and make it happen!

Too much overlap and differences in fleets. Scenario: DL merger:
Hubs: ATL, CVG, SLC, CLT, PHL, BOS, JFK, LAS, PHX - focus cities: DCA, PIT, LAX, MCO, FLL.
Losers in such a deal: BOS, PIT, CVG, SLC, FLL

I am not going to go on - just ain't going to happen. If & big IF DL & NW were looking for merger partners they would merge with themselves - period.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 13202 times:

Honestly, I don't think the DOT would allow a merger of this magnitude, since it would significantly diminish competition...this was the major reason for the UA/US failure/rejection. Also, we all know what happened after USAir swallowed PSA and Piedmont. The entire PSA route system was dismantled within 3 years and many of Piedmont's successful business strategies, such as the Florida Shuttle for instance, were gone.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
If & big IF DL & NW were looking for merger partners they would merge with themselves - period.

Enough said! DL will likely emerge from Chapter 11 first in a fairly strong position late this year or early next year, so IF that were to happen, then look for it to come along in late 2007 or early 2008.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13073 times:

If you read carefully, Parker indicates that nothing is going on. It is just a scenario that is going to be on everyone's mind but it doesn't mean that US is going to merge with another one. In my opinion, that would be a bad idea. Why ruin a good thing with the merger of HP/US which is doing great so far.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13025 times:

"Both of those carriers are still in bankruptcy, and as US Airways learned in 2003 and 2005, both will be able to drastically reduce costs by giving unneeded airplanes back to lenders or renegotiating labor contracts -- making either company more attractive to potential partners.

It "presents an opportunity that may not exist for a long, long time," said Mr. Parker, who was in Moon yesterday to dedicate a new US Airways aircraft outfitted with an old Allegheny Airlines tail logo."


I would be willing to bet in the next 5 years we are probably going to be seeing quite a bit of consolidation. Some idea like this doesnt suprise me. With fuel prices through the roof and more than half the airlines taking a loss at least one quarter through the last year (and more to come) maybe this type of consolidation isnt a bad thing...


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12974 times:

Please don't let DL merge with US...that's all I'm hoping for. I've ditched US Airways now that they're cheapening their overall product (read FlyerTalk for details), while DL is intent on improving their overall product. I'd hate for Delta to regress into becoming US.

Jeff


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12974 times:

Quoting Justapassenger (Thread starter):
It looks like America West (now US) wants to become one of the big 3 by specializing in merging with airlines just coming out of bankruptcy.

Money is with NW if anybody joining HP/US

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
This ain't going to happen! DOT won't let it happen, NW & DL don't want it to happen! And, HP would be foolish to try and make it happen!

Stranger things have happened.. Such as HP/US

Quoting John (Reply 6):
Honestly, I don't think the DOT would allow a merger of this magnitude

Why? To protect old hats AA and UA?


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12948 times:

I agree with the opinion that there will be more consolidation in the airline industry but i don't see USAirways merging again. I think you can have a "smaller" airline and be profitable instead of having a larger airline with a ton of employees (which would be the case with a US and NW merger) which would make it harder to deal with labor. I admire Doug Parker and what he has done to help US (along with the employees) to become a great airline. Just leave US as it is and let them complete the merger with HP.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12862 times:

DL and US could never merge given their east coast overlap. Period.

It does make you wonder if Parker is more interested in making money from M&A activity rather than running an airline. In case you haven’t noticed, US is not exactly class leading in much of any metric since the HP/US merger but they sure have allowed LFCs to continue to grow in their markets. They’ve got a lot of work to do before they convince anyone they are a viable merger partner.


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12807 times:

I have to disagree...Doug Parker made America West an airline that many people want to fly. I don't think Parker is more interested in making money...from what i recall he rejected a bonus or some type of payment not to long ago.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12801 times:

Ok… disagree but US is far from on sound footing yet. And they haven’t stemmed the flood of LFCs into their markets. I believe I just read that B6 is starting new service from PIT today in a key US market.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12772 times:

So what...the advantage US now has over many other carriers is that they have a strong footing in both the East and West. They are still getting the merger done but so far things are going MUCH more smoothly than thought.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12735 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 4):
Well, any talk of Republic would have to include a couple of these babies in retro colors. NW has enough DC-9's still around..

And don't forget Bonanza or North Central either!



Crazy talk.....must be Friday. Or there must be something in the water in PHX.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12735 times:

The industry as a whole is doing better than expected thanks to revenue improvements. And US has not improved its relative position in any markets because of the merger. US is a nationwide LFC but that doesn't necessarily mean anything when carriers routinely match each others' fares. And US does not have a cost advantage over other legacies. So what was accomplished by the merger other than to provide desperately needed funding to US and HP, esp. US that was very close to liquidation. All Parker has done is push out the D-Day for old US and pulled HP deeper into the fray.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

WorldTraveler, obviously you have a US bug up your A**...you seem to be such a pessist regarding US that you are most definitley in the minority. What was accomplished by the merger was that US lived, if they had not merged, the airline would most certainly have failed. Many jobs were saved.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineHunUtazo From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12648 times:

AMR - nwac


CAL - ual / f


LCC - fragments above/below


LUV - dal / f



dude
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 19):
What was accomplished by the merger was that US lived, if they had not merged, the airline would most certainly have failed.

Unfortuantely, true.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12591 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
And US does not have a cost advantage over other legacies.

I beg to differ, from Air Transport World, May 2006:

"According to a late February investment update, full-year CASM ex-fuel is expected to come in at around 7.25 cents versus 7.50-7.75 cents for the first quarter. That likely will put the carrier in the forefront of a tightly packed group of hub-and-spoke airlines but still behind Southwest. Parker says that isn't a target: "We are never going to have Southwest's level of CASM."

link: http://www.atwonline.com/magazine/article.html?articleID=1600


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12580 times:
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Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 20):
AMR - nwac


CAL - ual / f


LCC - fragments above/below


LUV - dal / f

I am sure that you knew what you meant when you wrote that - but for the rest of us who haven't been taught your brand of shorthand could you please explain

I assume you are suggesting

AA/NW merger

CO /UA merger ( not sure what the 'f' means - unless it is a polite way of
indicating the reaction from the rest of the industry : f____!"

LUV - dal / f ( if you are suggesting the WN takes over DL then I think
you should change the 'f' to "Holy F____!" Big grin



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12560 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 1):
IMHO, Parker may be biting off more than he can chew should he pursue DL and/or NW too soon.

I agree. US just emerged bk after a successful HP/US merger. Why would he want to do that again?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
Enough said! DL will likely emerge from Chapter 11 first in a fairly strong position late this year or early next year, so IF that were to happen, then look for it to come along in late 2007 or early 2008.

I think so too. DL as drastically improved their product and a whole slew of other things to become profitable. I don't think they'll merge with anyone.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):
Ok… disagree but US is far from on sound footing yet. And they haven’t stemmed the flood of LFCs into their markets. I believe I just read that B6 is starting new service from PIT today in a key US market.

And from looking at the B6-in-PIT thread, hopefully PIT will do exceptionally well for B6 that they add more destinations as well as more flights, especially to West Coast Cities using the A320...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 WorldTraveler : DL just reported an ex-fuel CASM below 7 cents and they are still restructuring. DL is US' biggest competitor. I have no bug up anything about US....
26 Ca2ohHP : Doesn't Delta have like $18 billion in debt? I wonder how little of that they're going to have to actually pay?
27 7E72004 : It is not real...US was in BK two times...NOT three...and the reason they were in two bk's was because they had inept management that was driving the
28 Steeler83 : They were not bankrupt 3 times, but I see your point, even though I also disagree with it. They posted the first quarterly profit in a while, and I o
29 Post contains images DL787932ER : Can I buy some of those drugs from you? Good sarcastic post, though. It's no crazier than lots of other nonsense that gets posted as ABSOLUTE FACT (b
30 Steeler83 : Oy vey...
31 Post contains images AirMailer : I disagree with half of that statement. I highly doubt that DL would merge with anyone. And the only airline that seems a valid combination for DL is
32 Ca2ohHP : Yeah I believe so, I was more curious about what US paid their debtors per dollar during bankruptcy as well as what DL is going to be paying theirs.
33 Post contains images AirMailer : You're right, the 5 larger U.S. carriers have very little presence on the east or west coasts compared to HP/US I'm gonna' have to ask you to tell th
34 Post contains images AirlineAddict : Too funny! More like "What the F___!"
35 Luv2fly : Just because it has so called work this time, does not mean it will work again.
36 Bobnwa : Are you saying that US has zero debt? I don't think so.
37 United777ORD : I think a merger between US/NW would give something that US has been lacking and that is a strong hub/feed in the midwest. If US/NW merge MSP and DTW
38 Post contains images Lightsaber : This pressure on NW and DL management. They now have to create more shareholder value (future shareholders, that is) than NW or DL merged into HP/US.
39 Post contains images QXatFAT : I agree. Why would they move with DL and still not have asia service? NW makes the better choice as US already flys to europe. Only thing still missi
40 Post contains images KYAir : What airline CEO in their right mind would want to plunge head-long into the toxic soup that is labor-relations at NW?
41 HVNandrew : As others have said, a DL/US merger just can't happen. They would OWN the east coast of the United States...ATL, CLT, LGA/JFK, BOS, PHL, and a huge pr
42 TL8490 : If you watch what is happening from a union standpoint at NW it looks like they are trying to become very similar to DL....If NW can throw out the FA
43 Post contains images Mariner : mariner
44 Bobnwa : You are forgetting the IAM which represents ground services. CSA's, reservations agents and is the largest union at NWA.
45 ScottB : I'm not so sure that's the truth. The biggest hurdles by far are still ahead -- integrating the several union groups and the resultant seniority batt
46 Incitatus : Delta downsized their domestic network by a big chunk, yet their domestic load factor trails competitors by a large margin. The move towards more int
47 HPLASOps : I think this article was one of those "lets check in with the HP/US merger and see if we can throw in a question that will catch Dougie off guard" int
48 OzarkD9S : Yes, they were. US twice and HP once. Note the US/HP reference, combined total times in BK: 3.[Edited 2006-06-30 23:11:12]
49 PHLBOS : Do keep in mind that it was the DOT that shot down the UA/US merger in early-to-mid 2001 due to anti-trust issues; a merger that would've created the
50 Post contains images Steeler83 : Ok, so "technically" they were bankrupt 3 times... This seems like a fairly large number of hubs and focus cities. I am sure that some would be cut,
51 Post contains images AwysBSB : It is great jetBlue be mentioned at this thread. I would be better for the market if the merger US Airways intends to make was with jetBlue
52 Steeler83 : If this doesn't happen for years (providing that B6 builds a sizeable station at PIT), then I guess it would be viewed as another way for US to keep
53 HPRamper : DTW would be cut as a hub while MSP would probably remain. There's no reason for two European gateways, and I was under the impression that MSP had mo
54 Mah584jr : I think that it would be very difficult to merge DL or NW with US due to the fact that DL and NW are part of SkyTeam and US is a part of Star Alliance
55 WorldTraveler : Delta has reported just one month of traffic statistics in which they trailed the industry in domestic traffic and that was the month of May which st
56 Post contains images USPIT10L : True, very true. Frankly, US has enough on its plate right now just integrating HP into US, or should it be the other way around? I couldn't agree mo
57 KingAir200 : You think so? With the midfield facility with 100 gates or whatever, I think DTW would stay.
58 Steeler83 : Yeah, I didn't even take into consideration that NW/DL and US belong to different alliances. Well there's a fly in the ointment... (As I stated befor
59 DeltaL1011man : the only non boeing planes in DLs fleet are MD-88 and 90s but when DL got what was left of PA they got A310s which where saved for two years then sold
60 Ckfred : It is typical for CEOs and COOs to say that they are always open to mergers, when the media asks the question. If a CEO or COO says that they aren't
61 Thegooddoctor : Won't happen - but Parker is making an interesting statment about where he see's US Airways in the airline pecking order. He took an up and comming Am
62 HPRamper : If it does happen, it'll be NW...not DL...and a LONG time in the future. Think of the domination on the East Coast if US merged with DL...ain't gonna
63 Steeler83 : People have stated how CVG and PIT would lose out considerably if DL and US were to merge. How bad are we talking about here? Would US Service be red
64 JetBlueLuv : IF (which it won't) DL and US Airways merged, could you imagine Charlotte closing has a hub? I mean...it is rather low in O/D compared to everything e
65 Floridaflyboy : I have a hard time believing that a NW/DL merger would work either. For one, their hubs and focus cities would form a very nice semi-circle (SLC, MSP
66 Post contains images HPRamper : I think CVG would be hacked to pieces. PIT is a much larger O&D market and has already been right-sized. On a side note, I think LAS would also be do
67 7E72004 : Delta is in bankruptcy and United just got out but the fuel costs are putting strains on United because they came out with a plan taking into account
68 Incitatus : Continental is not desperate. Varig has been poorly managed for years, just like Delta. Now, what Varig has to do with this thread? Just like everybo
69 Artiefufkin : Delta has made 30 Mil over the last two Months putting aside the reorg charges. That is light years away from what they lost that time frame a Year a
70 WorldTraveler : So, converting every 757 for transoceanic use even if they were not equipped to fly overwater is not desperate but doing the same to 767s which were
71 WorldTraveler : But everyone else's costs are not going down. DL is quickly moving to industry average revenues but well below average costs. Anyone should be able t
72 TropicBird : I am not surprised by Parker's statement. He willingly answered the question. US needs to expand to compete with not only other home grown carriers, b
73 HunUtazo : It should be interesting to see how consolidation happens, good luck to all concerned..[Edited 2006-07-02 18:05:21]
74 Jacobin777 : the 757's were built to fly overwater..maybe not transoceanic at first, but they are still used between West Coast and HNL, etc.... Many 757 operator
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