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NWA Flight Attendant's Contract Voided  
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Apparently Judge Gropper has allowed NWA to void the FA's contract and impose a contract no worse than the Mar 1 TA. He also left the door opened for a negotiated settlement.

http://www.startribune.com/1778/story/524196.html

www.nwaalpa.org

[Edited 2006-07-01 01:55:52]

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5139 times:

Just one? What about the rest of 'em?  Wink

Aaron G.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 1):
Just one? What about the rest of 'em?

There are no more!


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5055 times:

I have upcomming travel booked on NW (Mainline, Mesaba, and Pinnacle) in early August... should I be concerned about adverse job actions between this and the Mesaba FAs?

[CLE-DTW mainline, DTW-PLN mesaba, PLN-DTW pinnacle, DTW-CLE mainline...flying is actually going to take longer than driving]

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineDc10s4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
I have upcomming travel booked on NW (Mainline, Mesaba, and Pinnacle) in early August... should I be concerned about adverse job actions between this and the Mesaba FAs?

I would not be, this was expected. An agreement will eventually be reached.


User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5011 times:

I would be...... The Flight Attendants have a right to strike and I find it simply amazing how a judge can just slam his hammer and void a contract that was voted and signed on years ago. Personally, if I was a NWA crew member I would rather strike see the airline shut down and move on with my life. Nothing is worth letting a miserable !$%#$^&^ like steenland get away with what he has done to this airline since he has taken over.

For those of you who are going to say why not quit and move on then to strike and shut the airline down... It all comes down to principal... Everyone who actually makes the airline what it is, is as usual just left in the gutter. Shameful, I hope they sleep well at night.



"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5004 times:
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From usatoday.com

"Northwest, flight attendants have 2 weeks to reach deal
The bankruptcy judge overseeing the cost-cutting impasse between Northwest's management and the airline’s flight attendants has given the sides two weeks to reach a deal. The dispute went back to the judge after the parties failed to reach a deal by today, a timetable both had previously agreed to. Now, U .S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Allan Gropper says the negotiations have dragged on long enough and “tossed out” the attendants' contract, according to the Detroit Free Press. But the paper says Gropper won’t enforce the ruling for another two weeks, giving management and the attendants one last chance to reach a deal. If no deal is reached, the judge will allow Northwest to impose the terms of a tentative contract that 80% of flight attendants have already voted to reject.

“With the new deadline, the prospect of a strike looms. A flight attendants work stoppage might not shut down the airline, but it could dramatically disrupt travel,” the Free Press writes. Union officials representing the attendants say there are no preparations “at this time” for a strike, but say they reserve the right to do so if Northwest imposes new terms. Despite the emergence of yet another strike threat at Northwest, at least one travel expert says it may be premature to start booking away from the carrier –- at least for the summer months. "Would I book a flight for travel on Northwest this summer? Yes, I would," says Terry Trippler, airline expert at Minneapolis-based travel club Vacation Passport."

The judge is still trying to get both sides to reach a deal.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 5):
The Flight Attendants have a right to strike

You are wrong. The FA's and their union feel that they have a strong legal argument which would support a strike. but if they choose to test the legal argument, it's going to take a court ruling in their favor that would give the "right to strike" as you claim. As of this moment in time, PFAA has NOT secured the legal right for NWA FA's to exercise "self-help" if a contract is imposed.

Lincoln, at least you can drive the trip faster than flying, should the worst case scenario happen. If the FA's strike and your flights are cancelled, you'll be able to get a refund, and drive it. People like me, who fly "non-drivable" distances every week, will be hurting more. I've started booking my travel further out, and switched from NWA (Gold Elite) to US Airways earlier this year, despite DTW being my primary airport. Already flown enough to make Silver on US Airways, will be Gold by August.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 7):
The FA's and their union feel that they have a strong legal argument which would support a strike. but if they choose to test the legal argument, it's going to take a court ruling in their favor that would give the "right to strike" as you claim. As of this moment in time, PFAA has NOT secured the legal right for NWA FA's to exercise "self-help" if a contract is imposed.

I don't think that's quite true. Under the RLA, once the company imposes a new contract, the other side is free to seek self help. The legal question is about the ability to do this under bankruptcy protection. What would have to happen is NWA would have to get an TRO to get the flight attendants back to work.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Every time each of the labor groups came down to the wire, everyone on these boards predicted gloom and doom... with the same questions and statments...

"should I book nw"
"i already have a NW ticket... am I in trouble"
"Its a shame NW is going to go the way of eastern.."

So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country.

Based on what has happend in the past, NW and the FA's will come to an agreement. NW management is not particularly nice or popular, but they aren't stupid.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2094 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 9):
Every time each of the labor groups came down to the wire, everyone on these boards predicted gloom and doom... with the same questions and statments...

"should I book nw"
"i already have a NW ticket... am I in trouble"
"Its a shame NW is going to go the way of eastern.."

So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country.

Have you forgotten that NW mechanics came down to the wire...and struck. Of course, the outcome was far better for NW but a F/A stike could be worse than the mechanics. That being said, I firmly believe that a settlement will be reached.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 5):
The Flight Attendants have a right to strike and I find it simply amazing how a judge can just slam his hammer and void a contract that was voted and signed on years ago.

The bankruptcy code has provisions that allows a business to void collective bargaining agreements. It's been done in the steel industry, and Delphi is trying to void its contracts with the UAW.

No one knows if a bargaining unit with an air carrier has a right to strike after the imposition of a new contract by a bankruptcy judge, pursuant to a motion of management.

The RLA has no language to cover this situation, and no court has had to review this situation. If NW's F/As do not reach an agreement within the next two weeks, we may find out what the bankruptcy judge thinks, if the F/As do walk.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 10):
Have you forgotten that NW mechanics came down to the wire...and struck. Of course, the outcome was far better for NW but a F/A stike could be worse than the mechanics. That being said, I firmly believe that a settlement will be reached.

NW managment knew they could replace the mechanics, and had the mechanics waiting in the wings. NW management knows they can't do the same with a FA strike. Again, they aren't stupid.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 9):
So far, no one has struck, and NW is still flying jets around the country

Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$

In NW's 'defense', they've been flying without IFE and meals (and I really want to say pillows and blankets -- I can't remember ever seeing one) for years now -- even before the events of 9/11.

Exit rows for Elites are still free.

I'd gladly pay money for a jumpseat ride.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Albeit without IFE, Meals, Blankets, Pillows, and less frequency?

NW has blankets on all flights. NW also provides pillows on their long flights. (for instance each seat had a pillow when I flew an LAX-DTW red-eye about a month ago)

NW has never had IFE, and it has been hashed and re-hashed over and over again. They passengers that fill up their planes every day don't seem to mind.

Right now, CO is the only airline that still serves free meals in coach. This is certainly a deficiency for any legacy other than CO, but since CO is the only airline serving meals, its pretty much the industry standard to not serve free meals in coach.

NW cut capacity by about 10%. There are still plenty of flights to plenty of places.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 13):
Exit Row anyone?.. That will be $25.00
Want to sit in the jumpseat... That will be $$$
Want to flush the toilet?... That will be $$$

The coach choice program is $15, not $25. Compare this to UA's economy plus, where the kiosk offered me an "upgrade" to E+ for $75. All coach choice seats are free for elites, and will be released free to non-elites if they are the only seats left on the plane at the time of seat-assignment.

I am not familiar with any cost program for the jumpseat... I tend to think the vast majority of travelers don't even know what the jumpseat is. I won't even commment on your last assertion.


The latest statistics showed NW in the top three in on-time performance and in the top three in lowest customer complaints. NW also has one of the highest load factors in the industry, and made an operating profit in april despite not having all labor deals in lace. When NW gets all their labor deals in place and can start rolling in the E-Jets, they will be a ferocious competitor.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 14):
In NW's 'defense', they've been flying without IFE and meals (and I really want to say pillows and blankets -- I can't remember ever seeing one) for years now -- even before the events of 9/11.

Exit rows for Elites are still free.

So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

You will have to ask the millions who do fly with them to the extent that NWA month after month has the highest load factors in the industry. It appears that your opinions of NWA are not shared by them!


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

I'm sure there are reasons, but my only reason for flying NW is they're the only airline who can get me from CLE to PLN. (or DTW to PLN, or anywhere -> PLN)

IFE - Ehh, it's a nice bonus on CO, not really critical
Food - One of the primary reasons I fly CO (no, I'm not deranged enough to think that I would get food on any airline for a 94 mile flight)
Flight Attendants who don't seem perpetually pissed off (even before the recent contract issues) - Very key reason I fly CO.

I haven't flown NW mainline in close to 3 years...maybe things have changed, though.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

I can tell you, that as a travel agent that my agency is not booking to many on NWA unless the client ask for them....If they strike the paper work for refunding (if able) is a nigh mare. But, hey only you can make that decision. I personaly would stay away from NWA until everything has calmed down.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
The latest statistics showed NW ..... in the top three in lowest customer complaints.

Thats because NW charges $25.00 to make a complaint under its new "Complaint Choice" program.....Elite FFs can complain for free.

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 16):
So what is the advantage to flying NWA over CO, UA, AA, or DL?

Being that NW does not have IFE......it give you an opportunity to get some reading done. And since NW does not serve food on board, its a good way to lose a few pounds.


[I am teasing!!]


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 17):
You will have to ask the millions who do fly with them to the extent that NWA month after month has the highest load factors in the industry. It appears that your opinions of NWA are not shared by them!

Correction my fellings are shared by the millions of people who live in New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, et el. Where Northwest Airlines has very little roles in the aviation of those cities that are and will always be host to other larger, much more Customer Service oriented airlines such as CO, AA, and UA!

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 19):
I can tell you, that as a travel agent that my agency is not booking to many on NWA unless the client ask for them....If they strike the paper work for refunding (if able) is a nigh mare. But, hey only you can make that decision. I personaly would stay away from NWA until everything has calmed down.

There are scores of Tour Operators that are reverting from Northwest Airlines to United and Continental. Not to mention reverting from Northwest to JAL, and ANA for Intra-Asian operations. The contracts the Northwest signed 5, to3, to 1 year ago are coming up for renewal and the largest companies are not happy at all. Northwest Airlines has a stigma, and rightly so, as being an airline to stay away from due to scores of reasons.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 21):
Correction my fellings are shared by the millions of people who live in New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, et el

Again, I will ask, why does Northwest have the highest load factors in the industry month after month. Can you address that question before you change the subject again. Please check with your friends Heathrow and Kahala to get their input.


User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 21):
Northwest Airlines has a stigma, and rightly so, as being an airline to stay away from due to scores of reasons.

Why? They get you from point A to point B for usually a great price (as good as WN on some routes). DTW terminal is great.

I don't think a "stigma" has anything to do with until they start screwing up what they do - get people from Point A to Point B.


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Again, I will ask, why does Northwest have the highest load factors in the industry month after month.

Cheap Fares - Cheap Consolidated Fares - Empty Seats that WorldPerks members are filling!

High Load Factors do not equal to High Revenue, how many times does this need to be said again and again fro people to understand?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Can you address that question before you change the subject again.

The subject was never changed, you have skewed the subject as always, in a cheap attempt to bash myself. So in turn, can you please address the subject?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 22):
Please check with your friends Heathrow and Kahala to get their input.

The subject please!

The NWA Flight Attendants mellow drama is effecting many, many people. The actions being put forth by NWA and its labour issues, are causing once loyal Tour Operators to think twice, and as can be seen in recent weeks, they are optiing for alternate airlines for the 2007/2008 season. NWA relys heavily on the Tour contracts for its North America to Japan flights.

In addition to its Japan - Asia flights. There is a reason that NWA has dropped capacity on its SFO, and SEA routes - Tour Operators have chosen other airlines! In addition JFK-NRT was dropped not solely to to aircraft utilization, but a large number of tour operators signing with AA/CO for the NYC-Japan service.


25 Bobnwa : The subject was millions of people avoiding Northwest vs the highest load factors in the industry, which kind of takes the air out of your statement.
26 Centrair : Steenland is more fixed on the Domestic problems he forgot that NW is an International Carrier. It is not competing with CO or UA for Asia. Its not co
27 Luv2fly : I imagne they are since they are one and the same! Add to the mix kl777jfk as well.
28 Post contains images Jetjack74 : Hrmm, check your facts MalpensaSFO. We haven't dropped capacity out SEA, or SFO. We actually "increased" capacity form the the West coast with the ad
29 TOLtommy : I agree with you that the courts will be involved. It will be precent setting. My opinion is that its not the same as simply imposing a contract, bec
30 Luv2fly : Well this happens to be an army of one that changes its user id like others change underwear.
31 Post contains images Slider : And principles, too! Good (and oft undermade) point...bankruptcy laws and RLA provisions are in conflict with one another in terms of whether a contr
32 MalpensaSFO : Yes in a small A330-200.... Yes you have SEA went from a 742 to a DC10 to a 742 to a A330-200.. You seem to have omitted the fact, as is usual, that
33 Indy : I know I can tell you with confidence that they have done very well here at IND. They blew past long time favorite US. Their loads are outstanding he
34 MalpensaSFO : Funny, while NWA took their 80's style 747's and interiors to match back to the swallows of Detroit, AA has been rolling in the cash from the JFK-NRT
35 Tpaewr : The New WBC is one of the best seats and the sevice is ok for business class. Lets take CO Business first B767 to NWA WBC A330. The A330 WBC is a muc
36 Jetjack74 : Yes, while adding a small A332 on PDX-NRT All while selling real estate from London, to Las Vegas The SEA-KIX went years ago during the height of fal
37 Slider : NW became the biggest carrier at IND based on enplanements back in 2000 or 2001 I believe, edging out then US and WN. Don't know based on LF.
38 Indy : NW was briefly #1 in 2000 as they edged out US by just under 30,000 enplaned passengers. US was #1 from 1999 back to 1995 or earlier. WN was #1 in 20
39 Centrair : NW has not only increased service from SEA-NRT and added PDX-NRT, they have also added NRT-NGO-SPN, NRT-CAN, NGO-GUM using 757s. There could be far mo
40 MalpensaSFO : Permit me if you will a non-biased question about Northwest Airlines. With the immense audience that NWA has in Japan would any of the following rout
41 AirframeAS : I can say this without fear: As long at Chainsaw Steenland is in the controls, nothing is gonna change, its just gonna get worse.....which is pretty s
42 MalpensaSFO : Like I have said time and time again, I am disgusted with what NWA has turned into. NWA was an incredible airline until the late 1990's when the serv
43 Centrair : They could do all these routes but the problem would end up being NRT and its restrictions. NWA has slots but NAA might want to allow more competitio
44 Luv2fly : There are no A320's in NRT anymore it is all the 757's.
45 Centrair : This is true, but they could bring a few back. How many ETOPS certified A320s do they have?
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