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9 Abreast Seating  
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

A few weeks ago, someone inquired about the different ways to seat 9 people abreast. I checked some of my timetables and seating charts, and here are my findings:
I checked out DC10, MD11, 777, Ilyushin86, Ilyushin96, Airbus widebodies and TriStars. All these can seat 9, TriStar 10. However, Airbusses usually have 8, and TriStar with 10 is an exception.
(I don´t include Airbusses with 2-4-2, that´s too normal to be mentioned here.)

Aeroflot: 3-3-3 on both IL86 and IL96;
Air France: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Alitalia: 2-4-2 on DC10 (!), 2-4-3 on MD11;
British Airways: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Cathay Pacific: 3-4-3 on TriStar;
Condor: 3-3-3 on A310, 3-4-3 on DC10 (!);
Continental: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Finnair: 3-3-3 on A300, 3-4-3 on all DC10 and some MD11 (!), 2-5-2 on some MD11;
Hapag-Lloyd: 3-3-3 on A310;
Iberia: 2-5-2 on DC10;
KLM: 2-5-2 on DC10, 2-4-2 on MD11 (!);
LTU: 3-4-3 on both TriStar and MD11 (but only 2-4-2 on A330!);
Lufthansa: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Sabena: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Swissair: 3-4-2 on MD11;
TWA: 2-5-2 on TriStar;
United: 2-5-2 on both DC10 and 777.

Daniel

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Thanks! This is very informative. I would never fly on a DC 10, MD 11, 777, L1011 with 10 abreast or an Airbus with 9. I find even 9 in 10/11/777 or 8 in 330/340 to cramped. I dream about the 1970ies when Swissair only had a 2-4-2 seating in its DC 10.
In my opinion all economy classes of all airlines are horrible regarding seat width and legroom.


User currently offlineMegatop From Denmark, joined May 1999, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Thanks a lot !

Very good information !

Back in 1979, I was on a B747-200 from Northwest Orient, now Northwest, with 2-4-3. Nice space.

But I have also been on a DC10-30 from Finnair, 3-4-3. I will never do that again on a intencontinental flight, Helsinki - Bangkok.



User currently offlineN175DZ From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2000, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

Great info!

If I may, can I add a couple...

BA have some 777's (I think it's 5) with 3-4-3 seating! (I know that's 10, but thought it was worth a mention)

Continental have 3-3-3 on their 777's.

Delta have 2-5-2 on Tri-star's, MD-11 and 777's (shame!)

2-5-2 seating is only fun if you get all 5 to yourself (never happens!!!)

cheers, Phil.


User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

Royal has 3-3-3 on their A310's.

User currently offlineIlyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

I've flown on CSA's A310-300 and Finnair's A300B4, and neither had 9-abreast seating. CSA and Aeroflot (the only interiors I'v seen of A310s) have 767-style 2-3-2 seating, and Finnair's A300 had 2-4-2. I can't imagine 9 abreast on either of those planes - the A310 is narrower than the A300! That would be hellaciously uncomfortable!

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

To Ilyushin96M: the diameter of fuslage of the A 310 and 300 is the same. They only differ in length.
But you are right, I can not imagine an A 300/310/330/340 (all the same fuselage diameter) with 9 abreast. It must be hell, like 10 abreats on a DC 10, MD 11 or 777.


User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

This isn't anything major, but Finnair has moved at least some MD-11's to a 3-4-2-configuration (or was it 2-4-3, whatever...).

Much better than the awful 2-5-2, although so far I've been lucky enough not to fly in a plane configured like that. I can imagine what the middle seat would feel like, though...

BTW, I've been in one with 3-4-3 seating (HEL-JFK) and I don't think 10 abreast is *that* bad. Legroom is more important IMHO. (Note that I usually have the window-seat, so I might not have noticed some of the problems associated with that config).

Finnair also doesn't have DC-10's or A300's anymore, but I guess you knew that and just posted stats on old planes too. (Speaking of which, who cares if they cramped those busses, they were used for charter-flights   )


User currently offlineJumboClassic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

Here is one for you:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Matthew Lee


Doesn't look too bad.

To Ilyushin96M:
I have never heard of 2-3-2 seating on an A310. I 've just checked on www.aeroflot.ru and they show 2-4-2 in economy (only the last 5 rows are 2-3-2 where the fuselage gets narrower) and 2-3-2 in business. Great web site by the way. Since you can read russian, I 'm sure you will appreciate it.


User currently offlineIlyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Hehehe. The pictures Aeroflot typically shows of its cabin interiors are NOT economy, but business class. So that explains why I only ever saw pictures of 2-3-2 seating on Aeroflot A310-300s.

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1733 times:

My SU timetable (eff. 30 Oct. 94) even shows 3-3-3 on IL86 Business! 2-4-2 on IL96 Business, but that´s not great, either.
I don´t have so much problems with 2-5-2 either, because, like Killjoy, you´ll find me in the window seat, and I prefer one neighbour over two  
Being tall above average but not wide above average, I concur that legroom is more important...
I´ve indeed flown on Condor´s A310 with 3-3-3, yes it exists, yes it´s quite cramped, but, yes, it´s survivable  
Thanks, Phil, for the info; these are the carriers who don´t put seating charts in their timetables.
No need to dream about SR´s 2-4-2 on 70s DC10, ZRH: KLM CURRENTLY have 2-4-2 on MD11  
Finnair: in 94, they had MD11 with 2-5-2/318, 3-4-3/372, 3-4-3/407;
since 95 (with my last timetable eff. 25 Oct. 98): 2-5-2/309 (to JFK, BKK/SIN, NRT, KIX, PEK), 3-4-3/362 (to JFK, MIA, YYZ, SFO, BKK/SIN, PEK); 3-4-3/397 (to BKK).
Megatop, a 747 with 9 abreast sounds just great!

Daniel


User currently offlineIlyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1727 times:

Unlike most Western carriers, Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all. The difference between business class and coach seats on IL86 and IL96 is...non-existent. The "new" business class on TU134 and TU154 actually uses something like a first class seat, and to my knowledge, that is mirrored in the first class section aboard the IL widebodies. That would explain the 3-3-3 layout in business class on the IL86. The service is much better, but the seats are the same from cabin to cabin.

I understand Aeroflot is planning on spending quite a bit of money to have modern cabin interiors fitted to its Russian aircraft. Maybe we will see IL86s and IL96s with PTVs, not to mention some ambiance in their cabins.


User currently offlineUSAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

I don't get why some people are thinking 10 seats per row in a 777 is bad! The seats are the same exact width, 17in. as in other aircraft in normal seating arrangement(except itself in a different seating arrangement).

User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

KLM doesnt have a 2-4-2 arrangement. It is 2-4-3 as you can see in these pictures!

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Miguel Snoep




Avion


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

Uh oh, didn´t take long to destroy my credibility (no offence taken, just kidding); if anyone else discovers a mistake, feel free to correct me, I hope it´s the only one, though...
Daniel


User currently offlinePhileo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Lauda and Emirates has 3-4-3 seating arrangement in their B777. Just wondered why so many people still praise Emirates B777 so much.

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

USAirways737: 10 abreast in a 777 is hell! Also 9 abreast in a MD 11 is to much. All economy classes in our days are uncomfortable regarding seat width and legroom. If I can afford I don't fly economy, it is worse than a cattle carrier.

User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

"Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all." - that is not correct: I flew at least twice on Aeroflot Soviet-built narrowbodies, Il62M (CDG-SVO, 1991, Business) and Tu154M (EVN-SVO, this May, First) which had all three classes. Yes, business class seats there were the same as economy, with much more legroom and much better service. One more detail: during Soviet time on domestic flights there were no first or business, only economy, with service level comparable to, say, AA domestic economy, but with no meal choice.

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8894 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Delta has 2-5-2 seating on its' 777, MD-11, and L-1011. Personally, I prefer the 3-3-3. American is also 2-5-2 on its 777, DC-10, and MD-11

Jeff


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