Airsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 36 Posted (13 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
A few weeks ago, someone inquired about the different ways to seat 9 people abreast. I checked some of my timetables and seating charts, and here are my findings:
I checked out DC10, MD11, 777, Ilyushin86, Ilyushin96, Airbus widebodies and TriStars. All these can seat 9, TriStar 10. However, Airbusses usually have 8, and TriStar with 10 is an exception.
(I don´t include Airbusses with 2-4-2, that´s too normal to be mentioned here.)
Aeroflot: 3-3-3 on both IL86 and IL96;
Air France: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Alitalia: 2-4-2 on DC10 (!), 2-4-3 on MD11;
British Airways: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Cathay Pacific: 3-4-3 on TriStar;
Condor: 3-3-3 on A310, 3-4-3 on DC10 (!);
Continental: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Finnair: 3-3-3 on A300, 3-4-3 on all DC10 and some MD11 (!), 2-5-2 on some MD11;
Hapag-Lloyd: 3-3-3 on A310;
Iberia: 2-5-2 on DC10;
KLM: 2-5-2 on DC10, 2-4-2 on MD11 (!);
LTU: 3-4-3 on both TriStar and MD11 (but only 2-4-2 on A330!);
Lufthansa: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Sabena: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Swissair: 3-4-2 on MD11;
TWA: 2-5-2 on TriStar;
United: 2-5-2 on both DC10 and 777.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5563 posts, RR: 38 Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1584 times:
Thanks! This is very informative. I would never fly on a DC 10, MD 11, 777, L1011 with 10 abreast or an Airbus with 9. I find even 9 in 10/11/777 or 8 in 330/340 to cramped. I dream about the 1970ies when Swissair only had a 2-4-2 seating in its DC 10.
In my opinion all economy classes of all airlines are horrible regarding seat width and legroom.
Ilyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1554 times:
I've flown on CSA's A310-300 and Finnair's A300B4, and neither had 9-abreast seating. CSA and Aeroflot (the only interiors I'v seen of A310s) have 767-style 2-3-2 seating, and Finnair's A300 had 2-4-2. I can't imagine 9 abreast on either of those planes - the A310 is narrower than the A300! That would be hellaciously uncomfortable!
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5563 posts, RR: 38 Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1543 times:
To Ilyushin96M: the diameter of fuslage of the A 310 and 300 is the same. They only differ in length.
But you are right, I can not imagine an A 300/310/330/340 (all the same fuselage diameter) with 9 abreast. It must be hell, like 10 abreats on a DC 10, MD 11 or 777.
Killjoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1531 times:
This isn't anything major, but Finnair has moved at least some MD-11's to a 3-4-2-configuration (or was it 2-4-3, whatever...).
Much better than the awful 2-5-2, although so far I've been lucky enough not to fly in a plane configured like that. I can imagine what the middle seat would feel like, though...
BTW, I've been in one with 3-4-3 seating (HEL-JFK) and I don't think 10 abreast is *that* bad. Legroom is more important IMHO. (Note that I usually have the window-seat, so I might not have noticed some of the problems associated with that config).
Finnair also doesn't have DC-10's or A300's anymore, but I guess you knew that and just posted stats on old planes too. (Speaking of which, who cares if they cramped those busses, they were used for charter-flights )
I have never heard of 2-3-2 seating on an A310. I 've just checked on www.aeroflot.ru and they show 2-4-2 in economy (only the last 5 rows are 2-3-2 where the fuselage gets narrower) and 2-3-2 in business. Great web site by the way. Since you can read russian, I 'm sure you will appreciate it.
Airsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 36 Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1469 times:
My SU timetable (eff. 30 Oct. 94) even shows 3-3-3 on IL86 Business! 2-4-2 on IL96 Business, but that´s not great, either.
I don´t have so much problems with 2-5-2 either, because, like Killjoy, you´ll find me in the window seat, and I prefer one neighbour over two
Being tall above average but not wide above average, I concur that legroom is more important...
I´ve indeed flown on Condor´s A310 with 3-3-3, yes it exists, yes it´s quite cramped, but, yes, it´s survivable
Thanks, Phil, for the info; these are the carriers who don´t put seating charts in their timetables.
No need to dream about SR´s 2-4-2 on 70s DC10, ZRH: KLM CURRENTLY have 2-4-2 on MD11
Finnair: in 94, they had MD11 with 2-5-2/318, 3-4-3/372, 3-4-3/407;
since 95 (with my last timetable eff. 25 Oct. 98): 2-5-2/309 (to JFK, BKK/SIN, NRT, KIX, PEK), 3-4-3/362 (to JFK, MIA, YYZ, SFO, BKK/SIN, PEK); 3-4-3/397 (to BKK).
Megatop, a 747 with 9 abreast sounds just great!
Ilyushin96M From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2609 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1463 times:
Unlike most Western carriers, Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all. The difference between business class and coach seats on IL86 and IL96 is...non-existent. The "new" business class on TU134 and TU154 actually uses something like a first class seat, and to my knowledge, that is mirrored in the first class section aboard the IL widebodies. That would explain the 3-3-3 layout in business class on the IL86. The service is much better, but the seats are the same from cabin to cabin.
I understand Aeroflot is planning on spending quite a bit of money to have modern cabin interiors fitted to its Russian aircraft. Maybe we will see IL86s and IL96s with PTVs, not to mention some ambiance in their cabins.
USAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1453 times:
I don't get why some people are thinking 10 seats per row in a 777 is bad! The seats are the same exact width, 17in. as in other aircraft in normal seating arrangement(except itself in a different seating arrangement).
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5563 posts, RR: 38 Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1411 times:
USAirways737: 10 abreast in a 777 is hell! Also 9 abreast in a MD 11 is to much. All economy classes in our days are uncomfortable regarding seat width and legroom. If I can afford I don't fly economy, it is worse than a cattle carrier.
RIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1785 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1398 times:
"Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all." - that is not correct: I flew at least twice on Aeroflot Soviet-built narrowbodies, Il62M (CDG-SVO, 1991, Business) and Tu154M (EVN-SVO, this May, First) which had all three classes. Yes, business class seats there were the same as economy, with much more legroom and much better service. One more detail: during Soviet time on domestic flights there were no first or business, only economy, with service level comparable to, say, AA domestic economy, but with no meal choice.