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Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

with most countries opting for single major carriers, shouldnt the same be done in India, just might strengthen AI to face competition both locally and abroad.


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

That would be too logical.
But for that to happen, two large, inefficient, generally corrupt, and bloated government sector entities would have to be merged with the usual layoffs and streamlining that goes with the process. You just can't do that in India given its draconian labor laws.

Also, that would mean fleet rationalization which is a concept that is only now being addressed. Plus, Indian is based in Delhi (with all the usual connections to the government) and Air India is based in Bombay.

The airlines could merge, thus allowing for seamless connections to all parts of India. Make Bombay and Delhi hubs for intra-India and International East-West and north-south traffic to compete with foreign carriers. But that would also mean building new terminals in Bombay and Delhi (currently the International and domestic terminals are miles apart).


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

This has been discussed many times, but is unlikely to ever happen as long as AI and IC remain even quasi-governmental entities.

One prime reason for this is pay-scales. AI crew are paid tremendously better than IC crew (and in US dollars to boot). AI crew would never take a pay cut, and if IC crew were brought up to parity, it would be economic suicide.

A better system than a merger would be co-ordinated scheduling, etc... This has been in place (theoretically) for many years now. However, as long as the terminals remain 15 mins apart from each other, it is but a pipe dream as far as effectiveness goes.


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

id read once in the news that there enough traffic on the Karachi-Mumbai sector to facilitate 747 services, is that true? is the political aspect affecting such a service?


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User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

I think that India-Pakistan could be the source of scores of daily flights if the political situation were ever resolved. The Bollywood industry alone could export millions of dollars of film stock to Pakistan if trade policies would allow that.

I believe that 10 years ago, PIA operated a daily A300, IC operated a near daily A300, and several european airlines and PanAm operated Bom-KHI services which did very well.


User currently offlineThud From Pakistan, joined Aug 2000, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

I know PIA flys almost thrice weekly between Lahore and Delhi but do IA return the compliment? I remember seeing HS748's in IA's colours in the 70's!! It used to take off, fly circles over Lahore to gain height and then whizz of towards the border.


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

i think more airlines should be allowed to operate between the two countries.


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User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

WHo wants to get hijacked! With these Pakis u never know!

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Damning a whole country just because of the activities of a few people isn't befitting of this board. Currently India does more non-petroleum related trade with Iran than it does with Pakistan, partly because of restrictive trade barriers (primarily imposed by Pakistan) between the two countries. Over the past few years, this trade has dropped off even more. Since traffic on air routes closely follows trade patterns, I am not surprised at the drop-off in India-PK traffic.

Of course, the perceptions in India of poor security levels in Pakistan combined with a fear that potential hijackers are in cahoots with the military and/or the Afghan taliban doesn't help any. Apparently security concerns for western carriers is the driving factor for suspension of flights into pakistan. The only airlines lacking those concerns are the Arab carriers and Swissair (self-anointed neutral country).


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Jaysit - I strongly believe that AI/IC have very valid reasons to avoid flying to Pakistan. Sadly, IC is forced into it, but AI won't touch it with a bargepole.

A few years ago, an AI 744 en route BOM-LHR had to divert to KHI to offload a pax in cardiac arrest. I spoke to the captain about the experience, and he told me that although the Pakistani ground personnel were very professional, he would not let anyone other that the medics on board and could not wait to get the aircraft off the ground.

AI has very specific procedures to be followed in the event of a hijacking to Pakistan (as opposed to hijackings elsewhere). As long as the countries remain mortal enemies, a valid atmosphere of distrust will always permeate the air and inhibit regular operations.


User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

When i said 'Pakis' I meant the Pakistani Politicians and the Satanic Pakistan Army. These guys are total fanatics. These guys are almost sub-human, if i may use that term.

I have read books on the hijackings of 3 Indian Airlines hijackings, and the behaviour of these Pakis during these crises shows their fanaticism. Remember how the Pak army blew up an IC fokker in 1971, AFTER the hijackers had surrendered? Remember how they behaved when another IC A300 was hijacked to Kandahar?

I wouldnt want our airlines to fly to Pak.


User currently offlineNycank From United States of America, joined May 2000, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Indianguy: What has that got to do with the "topic"   - The merger

If any Govt., makes it difficult to protect
other country's property - i.e aircraft,
then the insurance costs for flying into that country rise
multi-fold. Which forces the airline to evaluate
the bottom-line on the route.



User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

this was the last time ive discussed anything related to india.


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User currently offlinePakistania From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

why are you so touchy, the topic is about merging air india and indian airlines not the political aspects of the two countries.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

Lets not use the term "pakis," OK?
Its a pejorative that's equally applied to everyone from the subcontinent, and has precious little to do with aviation.
As far as Indo-Pak. tensions are concerned, volumes have been written about it. It is obvious that the lack of trade, flights, etc between the two countries are a result of the political imbroglio, but each year thousands resist the political ramifications and make the trip across the border to meet with loved ones, etc. It is sad that these trips become fewer in number as the older generation dies off.

When I visited Pakistan for the first time (flying PanAm), I was a bit tense, but was lucky to get a rather kindly customs & immigration official at Karachi airport who ushered me in and allayed any fears I may have had. However, the mostly Indian cabin crew on that flight stated unequivocally that they had horror stories galore concerning Pakistani airport personnel, and so Pan Am stopped crew layovers in Karachi.


User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Jeeez! Some people can get so touchy!

It was Airmale who bought up the topic of traffic bet. India-Pak.

I am trying to prove that they are other forces at play here.


User currently offlineThud From Pakistan, joined Aug 2000, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

The word 'Paki' is extremely derogatory, on par with 'Nigger'. My friend Sunil had the crap beaten out of him by a bunch of thugs, and fact that he was Indian did'nt really matter to these morons. I suppose I am touchy as Sunil, a real extrovert is now scared of leaving his house and is off work.

I maybe off to India this winter, probably landing at Indira Gandhi airport. What's it like, and what happened to Palam


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2328 times:

Palams' the domestic terminal.
IG International handles international traffic only.
Like other airports run by the IAAI, it's somewhere between abysmal and merely satisfactory, depending on when you get in. Its a damn sight better than International Terminal 1 at bombay, although I hear that the Air India terminal 2 at Bombay is much better - I've never used that one.

Last year, a 10 yr old kid got sucked into a malfunctioning escalator at Delhi International and the authorities had no clue what to do. A passenger eventually called the medics on her cell phone. This caused a big broo ha ha in the Indian press. It appears that the Indian government that runs IAAI (badly - as it does everything else) has decided to auction off management rights of the airports to the private sector - or something to that effect. The divestment plans change in both scope and design every week. Sean (747-437B) probably knows more about it.


User currently offlinePakistania From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

hey thud, so youre pakistani also great i thought airmale was the only other one here, well i agree with you the term Paki is extremele derogatory can compare it Japs foe japanese, its considered really rude by them too, and jayasit theres news that Pakistani airports are also to be privatised , but again that keeps changing too.


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Pakistania


User currently offlineThud From Pakistan, joined Aug 2000, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Jaysit,
That rather tragic incident made it into every newspaper I think.

I understand teh IAF also operates out of Palam?


User currently offlineThud From Pakistan, joined Aug 2000, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Pakistania,
Thanks for your kind regards.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

Palam and IGI have the same runaways, taxiways, etc. The terminals are just situated miles apart from each other, much like the CDG1 and 2 at Paris.

I guess the IAF operates out of Palam. I saw a few An-25 transport carriers at Delhi, although the fog was so thick, it could have been a giant turtle for all you know.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

I haven't flown out of IGI in over a year, so I really can't comment on that. However, the new AI Terminal in Mumbai (Terminal II-C) is quite spectacular. I especially liked the new Maharaja lounge there which is the equal of ANY lounge in the world.

As of right now, any privatization is stalled bigtime until there is a proper evaluation of the assets of AI and IC.


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