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Upper Deck On 747-100s  
User currently offlineRobertmalpass From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9292 times:

Hi

Does anyone know what the upper deck was/is like on the old 741s, the ones with just the three windows. Was it used for j-class pax or crew rest? Also which airlines still fly these old birds? I'm pretty sure IR flies something old and decrepit but not sure who else, other than the odd cargo lines...

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9267 times:

Early on they were a first class lounge. Later they were converted to a seating area when airlines learned that 'bums' in seats is where the money is. Only a few 747's were built with the 3 upper deck windows and most all were converted. Three upper deck windows dosn't make it a -100, it was just an early option.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9254 times:

Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s, were built with the three windows on each side, and after that, both -100s and -200s were fitted with the full set of windows on the upper deck. Some but not all of the originals were later converted to full window configuration. On the other hand, some airlines who already had the three windows had the extra windows plugged when they got other examples delivered with them. Today, among the few flying examples of the original configuration are the General Electric 747, one of the NASA shuttle launchers, and maybe 1 or 2 aircraft with Air Atlanta.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9205 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Early on they were a first class lounge.

Any Pics.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9172 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Here are a couple of TWA -100 lounges in a.net DB

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Genovese
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Photo © Mike Genovese


WorldXplorer


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9129 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Above are a few... just search under ... 747-100, Cabin Pictures... I think there were only 60 or so.... maybe 10 were upper deck.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBostonBeau From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

I sat on the upper deck on VS's "Spirit of Sir Freddie" a few times. What always made me laugh was that since there was only one door on that level, and the old spiral staircase, the FAs would tell each passenger individually that their "alternative emergency exit" was through the cockpit window!

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9059 times:

I flew on an AF 741 from MIA to CDG about 10 years ago......we sat in the upper deck (J class); there were 12 seats up there (3 rows of 4 abreast) and each seat had one window. It was very intimate - on the early 741s, the upper deck has a shorter length than on later 742s - and very very comfortable. I remember that the J class seat did not have a built in foot rest, an ottoman like thing was provided to rest your legs - low tech and marvelous. Only 4 of us were seated upstairs (me and my partner, and two biz men travelling alone).......the service was nothing short of spectacular and it was so peaceful. The IFE was primitive, a projector showing a movie on a pull down screen that you could hardly see....but who cared, it was a great experience.

The Lounge Era was great, I flew on TW, UA, and NA 741s with upstairs lounges, it was very nice and quite luxurious.....and it was great to be able to go hang out somewhere else for an hour or so on a longer flight.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9000 times:

I remember reading that Pan Am used the upper deck lounge area for a high-end restaurant that served First Class passengers....

User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8962 times:

Quoting Duke (Reply 2):
Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s, were built with the three windows on each side, and after that, both -100s and -200s were fitted with the full set of windows on the upper deck.

I think it may have been more than that. The early BOAC/BA 747 136s had three windows on the upper deck:

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Photo © George W. Hamlin


This configuration was retained after the formation of BA in 1974 but converted sometime in the following ten years:

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Photo © Steve Brimley
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Photo © Fergal Goodman


Certainly 747 136 G-AWNL with the line number 187 was originally a 'three window' aircraft:

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Photo © Paul Robinson


suggesting that a minimum of 187 aircraft were manufactured in this configuration. It is not clear whether any or all the remaining six BOAC/BA 747 136s were delivered with three or with more upper deck cabin windows. Doers anyone kmow or does anyone know whejn and where the fleet was converted?


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8939 times:

The Iran Air one is EP-IAM and its actually a 747-100B which is more like a -200, so IIRC at that point the full window lineup was already being offered. Anyway, IR uses the area up there for seating (economy, 3-3)


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineKlmyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8902 times:

I remember flying on TWA upstairs years ago, it was either 1st or biz (cannot remember as I was about 5!) but I remember being pi**ed off that there was no window next to my seat!

User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8799 times:

There was only one emergency exit, on the right hand side, on the upper deck. However, there are not any cockpit windows that open let alone as an emergency exit. Instead, there is a hatch in the ceiling of the cockpit that is opened and inertial reels are used to lower the cockpit evacuees to the ground.

User currently offlineBostonBeau From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

You're right, 113312. It was "through the cockpit" not "cockpit window".

User currently offlineN707PA From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8629 times:


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Photo © Jörg Tegen



Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?


User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8557 times:

Quoting N707PA (Reply 14):
Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?

KLM on their 6 initial 747-206B's after modification in the early 80's

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Photo © Martin Boschhuizen - AirTeamImages




"The world is just a click away!"
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 39
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 8453 times:

Quoting Robertmalpass (Thread starter):
Also which airlines still fly these old birds?

Did boeing upgrade some old 747-100's into 400's or 300's?

Heres afew pictures...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1068611/L/

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1044278/L/



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineN8076U From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 425 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 8445 times:

Quoting 113312 (Reply 12):
There was only one emergency exit, on the right hand side, on the upper deck



Quoting N707PA (Reply 14):
Any other carriers with a left side upper deck door?

Some Qantas -238s had an upper deck exit on both sides. Must have been an option.

Chris



Don't blame me, I don't work here...
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Any Pics.

Here are some pics to Braniff's upper lounge on their 747-100. I few up there as a child on non-rev flights. There was a small bar and some first class chairs.
http://www.braniffinternational.org/aircraft/747braniffplace.htm

.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7407 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7350 times:
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Quoting Duke (Reply 2):
Actually, the first 145 or so 747s, both -100s and -200s

Correct. It wasn't just the 741's that had them, SR's 742's were delivered with the 3 window upper-deck layout.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eduard Marmet




Made from jets!
User currently offlineDreamsUnited From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7328 times:

Continental had the first class lounges up there... with pong and everything!

-Josh



Do not abort a takeoff because a cockpit window pops open!
User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7236 times:
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It was only a lounge for AAL the entire time they had the fleet. Can't remember for sure, but I don't think they even had seatbelts installed up there. For awhile, the rear of coach was a piano bar, but the FAA took a dim view of bunches of people standing for lengthy periods and anyway, seats generate revenue. The airline gots lots of publicity out of it while it lasted, though.


Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8115 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Did boeing upgrade some old 747-100's into 400's or 300's?

There were only two of such aircraft and they were a special order from JAL in the early 80s for Japanese domestic service. They were 747-146SRs with a stretched upper deck, so they became the 747-146SR/SUD.

They were not -400s as -400s were not produced until several years later and cannot be "converted" due to major structural differences.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineN8076U From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 425 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

UA's 747-100s had a lounge way back when, with a circular couch at the rear, and big comfy chairs. No pong, though  Wink

Later on, that was taken away, and business class seats were installed, even on the 3-windowed models. It felt like being in a submarine with only a few seats having a window next to them.

Chris



Don't blame me, I don't work here...
User currently offlineFireFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

About 1980, when I was a little kid, we flew Braniff a couple of times from SEA to HNL... At that time, we were all seated downstairs (in first class) but also had the option of running (again little guys) up the circular staircase to the upper deck. There, we could pick our seats, and ding the call bell to request more 7-Up. Best of all, we were able to visit the flight deck. We spent lots of time sitting in the 4th seat in the cockpit, talking to the flyers about whatever we could think of. It was Great!!

Now, I have 2 little boys. We have flown together a total of 8 segments, and of course, except on the ground, they can't catch a glimpse of the cockpit...makes me sad that they can't regail the flight crew with their little boy's stories like we used to do, on our very favorite airline, Braniff!!

Now, thanks youknowwho for locking little kids out of the flightdeck!



"Bury me at sea, boys; where no murdered ghosts can haunt me" MacGowan
25 HAWK21M : Nice Pictures. regds MEL
26 Dl_mech : Why cant someone at Boeing dig into the files and produce an upper deck photo album?
27 Post contains images AsstChiefMark : Northwest Orient ad has pics:
28 Flyabunch : I hate to admit it...age and all, but I flew several times in First Class on AA 747's from LAX-JFK and got to take advantage of the lounge. I remember
29 IR707 : In the mid-70's the IRAN AIR 747SP's had a tea room on the upper-deck for the first class passengers, beautifully decorated.
30 Post contains images VinnieWinnie : Heu that looks gross! Different times different tastes!
31 Cedarjet : I agree about the TWA upper deck lounge, I can't believe how bad that looks. It's like something from Commie Russia. That's what the upper deck lounge
32 Post contains links Cedarjet : PS here's the route map for Northwest Orient's 747 ops in 1970: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=M...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=
33 Post contains links and images KDTWflyer : http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/MEM-BOEING.html nice site of memorabilia from the era of the widebodies. When widebodies were actually used dome
34 Tod : Remember that F models are included in the line number count too. This may be where the descrepancy comes from. In addition to the structure, many of
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