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Airline Pax In France Face New Tax To Help Poor  
User currently offlineOkelleynyc From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

Fair use excerpt:

Quote:
Passengers boarding planes in France are now paying a new tax on their tickets to help the world's poor, after the measure came into effect on the weekend.

The tax, championed by President Jacques Chirac and backed by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, adds a surcharge of between one and 40 euros (1.25 and 50 dollars) depending on the destination and class of seat.

Money raised is to go to an international fund to buy treatments for AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/02/060702104216.1lh2ue8o.html

I'm not a fan of coerced charity and choose to send my $$$ to organizations where I have some knowledge of their ability to affect change. I'm curious why the airline industry was singled out as a suitable means for collecting these funds?

Interested to hear everyone elses comments....


Just give me my Vario, my Ozone Mojo and a gorgeous day of soaring.
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

I don't have an issue with the Gvt using funds to help the poor. I just don't think one industry should be singled out to fund the programs. The tax should be much broader based.

User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

I'm assuming this is more punishment to French Airline travellers. First the picture tacking and now the tax. The only question I have is why also not on the SNCF TGV's? Its upsetting where one industry is singled out. Especially when this industry is in France, the most travelled to nation in the world. I'm guessing that's why it is in the airline industry, because of the amount of pax that travel and O&D there.


Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Have a higher general income tax instead in France. That is my proposal.

User currently offlineSmokinL1011 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

I wonder how long before stories of corruption and waste appear...

BUT, having said that, if a program like this can truly be managed properly and most of the aid will get to the individuals that need it I have no problem paying a little extra, and I'm someone who flies to France regularly. Though I do wonder about the reasoning of placing the tax squarely on airline tickets.

The bigger picture of imbalance between us and the 3rd world is so wrought with corruption (ours and theirs) and the idea of self-sufficiency in most of these countries is so far off I applaud the French government's attempt to help the most helpless - those that are critically ill.


User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

Quoting SmokinL1011 (Reply 4):
far off I applaud the French government's attempt to help the most helpless - those that are critically ill.

An American with a good heart and looking out for his fellow man. Rare as hens teeth these days.


User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

What logic! "Sir, you are flying AF to Luanda today, so we are taxing you to help pay for the people there suffering from x numbers of ills".

First, most of these counrties are poor becasue they are corrupt. Nigeria an Angola should be jewels of Africa. They are dumps. So you want me to pay for the guys driving around there in the big Mercs and Hummers?

What I would like to see, is a change donation jar before security where I could unload my lose change before going through the metal detectors.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineSmokinL1011 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 6):
First, most of these counrties are poor becasue they are corrupt. Nigeria an Angola should be jewels of Africa.

There's plenty of corruption to go around. Our governments (meaning us in the 1st world) have regularly done plenty to help further crookedness and depravity in the 3rd world when it advances our own self interests.

The question of poverty in most of Africa is a far more complicated matter than simply saying "they" are corrupt. Nigeria? Study Nigeria in depth, see what hand your government has had in their mess and then talk about "them".

Ahh, this is why I love A.net. It takes my mind off the troubles of the world.  

[Edited 2006-07-02 18:51:40]

User currently offlineSmokinL1011 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 1):
I don't have an issue with the Gvt using funds to help the poor.

Are you really American, or just an impostor?  Wink

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 5):
An American with a good heart and looking out for his fellow man. Rare as hens teeth these days.

Yes, it's hard to believe, but I'm definately NOT a devoted, starry-eyed listener of the daily deluge by Limbaugh and Coulter, still waiting faithfully for the discovery of those WMD's in Iraq or happy to enshrine discrimination in the constitution.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

The lesson? Everyone fly to France to help the poor. More flights! More flights!

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

I also see no issue with helping out those in need, but I have an issue with the airline industry being singled out for taxes. This is already one of the most taxed industries in the world.

At least the revenues from this tax will ostensibly go to a cause that is actually worthwhile. Airlines here in the U.S. are still being choked by unfunded security mandates from our oil dictator in the White House and the security fees he enacted in order to fund his TSA goons.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

Number of posts before Bush: the Great Satan, Evil Dictator and Destroyer of Worlds, is brought to a topic on FRENCH TAXES: 10.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5291 times:

Well, I guess when global passengers begin to change their buying and travel patterns to route themselves over competing hubs in Frankfurt, Amsterdam and London because of this stupid tax, we'll know who to blame, Msr. Chirac!

User currently offlineDallasnewark From Estonia, joined Nov 2005, 495 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

Airlines should not be punished by this stupidity.

Africa should blame itself for what is happening there, no amount of money would help them.
If the African nations took responsibility for their own actions, the level of poverty would not be as bad as it is today.

Don't breed 10 children if you can't feed them.
Don't destroy the hand that feeds you(Zimbabwe and R.Mugabe)

The list can go on and on.

Unless African nations become more responsible, no amount of money would help them.

Chirac is using this as a cheap publicity stunt for himself



B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

This was the brain child of Chirac. Personally, I like the "Change for Good" program that various carriers participate in. ANy coins that will have no value are collected and sent to the UN, for Unicef, I beleive. At least its voluntary.

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 11):
Number of posts before Bush: the Great Satan, Evil Dictator and Destroyer of Worlds, is brought to a topic on FRENCH TAXES: 10.

I made no inappropriate attack on Bush. With respect to the airline industry, the simple FACT is his security mandates--either unfunded or disgracefully underfunded--have cost the airlines enormous amounts of money. Inconsistent, ridiculous security policies as well as the largest increase in the federal bureaucracy since Roosevelt have negatively impacted the aviation industry since 2001 and continue to affect travelers today.

But since you don't like to hear that, you can go bury your head back in the sand now.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Quoting SmokinL1011 (Reply 7):
Study Nigeria in depth, see what hand your government has had in their mess and then talk about "them".

Study? Try working there for a year, from Lagos to PH to Aba to Onitsha and in between. Are you going to blame British colonialism? That was then, this is now. Ever have a shotgun shoved in your face? Go to Nigeria, you'll love what they've done with the country.

Angola? I'm not an expert there, spent 8 months in country. Oil, diamonds, minerals, politicians with nice cars and no roads. (The Gates Foundation does more in Angola then France.)

If these governments actually CARED about their citizens, I would gladly donate. So there Jack, if you want to help these corrupt nations, send them a check from your account.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting Avatordon (Reply 14):
This was the brain child of Chirac.

Actually, it is system to raise money for medicines to the third world which was advocated by other people including Bill Clinton.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5186 times:

Quoting Breiz (Reply 17):
Actually, it is system to raise money for medicines to the third world which was advocated by other people including Bill Clinton.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't remember Bill Clinton ever advocating a tax on airline tickets to help the world's poor while he was President, probably because he well knew then (and surely knows now) that something this stupid would have been roundly dismissed by the vast majority of U.S. taxpayers, and nearly the entire Senate and House, if ever proposed seriously.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Here are some of the links - just passing on what I had read somewhere - beleive it was Financial Times.

http://www.adetocqueville.com/200606291447.k5telcw05990.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-03-01-airline-tax_x.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4758786.stm

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/06/global/asian_tribune.htm

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/27/opinion/edsebban.php

I think the most interesting of the above hyper-links is the editorial from the International Herald Tribune. Incidentally, I didn't come across anything here that included Bill Clinton, but this was a quick check, that's all.


User currently offlineRC135U From United States of America, joined May 2005, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

From 1970 to 2000 Africa received $400 billion in aid according to this study which says money is not the problem in Africa, but a host of other changes are needed in the political and business climate.
www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=7447


User currently offlineDFWMzuri From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

I like how Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are helping the poor, and I think they will accomplish much more than a government program or politician.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

They singled out the industry because everyone that flies is considered of, at the least, medium-income level. If you can afford a plane ticket, you can afford giving money to the poor. Simple reasoning.

Unfair, IMHO. I'll donate what I can to who I want, not some government that who knows what little percentage of that money will atually reach the needy (most will prob. be either wasted or corrupted).

Cheers

[Edited 2006-07-03 04:18:04]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

How 'bout obliterating the egregious agricultural subsidies, f#ckers???? That would help the poor infinitely more than another handout that hurts an industry. This is absolutely ridiculous and anyone behind this should be beaten.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

You really have to laugh to read that Brasil has signed up. They could use the money to hire some policemen to actually enforce the law in the favelas in Rio. maybe while they're there, they could actually build a school.

Mexico is also a signatory-Great job! You have an economy that doesn't work in Chiapas and you want to buy medicine for corrupt mineral rich dictatorships.

Way to go Nicaragua! You just made an international headline, must be the first time since we caught your military on camera loading cocaine on a flight bound for the USA!

When Haiti gets on board, this program is really going to rock!

Let's start taxing ice cream. It is rich in cholesterol which is a leading cause of heart disease.

Jack-you must be awfully proud. There is life after being the president of France, the HBO Comedy Hour comes to mind.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
25 LTBEWR : The well documented problems of many countries of Africa and elsewhere in the 3rd world is something that the '1st world' needs to deal with, but is a
26 FireFly : Yes, saw this a few hours ago on DrudgeReport... It is utter crap! If the Republic of France wants to spend a portion of their treasury on any cause,
27 Ttailsteve : How about a tax to repay the United States for all of the aide we have given them. Also, maybe a tax on every ticket paid directly to Airbus?
28 CRGsFuture : Guys I was just thinking, doesn't CDG get the most arrivals and departures from/to Africa than any other airport in the world. Could that be the cause
29 Ttailsteve : Actually in all seriousness I much prefer what British Airlines does where they collect loose change and "left over" money in any currancy and give th
30 Post contains images Fixman88 : Well, at least you're not biased...
31 Commavia : Chirac still doesn't get it. The last thing Africa needs is more money. Throwing money at a problem won't make it go away! The problem is that half of
32 707lvr : And replies before bring-anti-bush-into-every-subject poster gets sniffily indignant - 15.
33 DeltaSFO : number of posts before ignorant, blind flag-waver mistakes a Bush voter and registered republican for a bring-anti-bush-into-every-subject poster: 32
34 Post contains images Orlando666 : how much does France calculate will be collected annually = ? Euro how much has France written-off in African debt = ? Euro do the maths and then see
35 Glom : Just remember: Make poverty history! Take more flights!
36 Commavia : Just a quick question, as I recognize this is in aviation thread: do you classify ever Bush voter as an "ignorant, blind flag-waver?"[Edited 2006-07-
37 GeorgiaAME : "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" The fundamental creed of socialism, a discredited economic system, still subscribe
38 MaverickM11 : The problem here is that France has Africa bent over a barrel in one respect, and then tries to pretend like they're the good samaritan by sending a
39 Joni : Money can be useful, however. I didn't wade through the links on this thread, but my understanding is that targeting foreign aid so that it can bypas
40 Commavia : Generally, I don't think so. In fact, I would venture to say that in places that are so far behind the rest of the world in globalization, infrastruc
41 Post contains links Longhaulheavy : That's typically how it works. Take food aid as an example. Few analysts, researchers, economists, etc. will denounce the value of food aid during an
42 Antiuser : Right, because the history of the continent has no bearing on its current state. Of course they should blame themselves. Only a lunatic would think t
43 Joni : Do you think that development aid is delivered in trucks carrying cash to remote African villages? I don't quite agree with this either: 30 years ago
44 Post contains links Commavia : No -- quite the opposite. The trucks carrying cash back up right into the garage of the corrupt tyrannical leaders of these countries and unloads cas
45 Post contains images Halls120 : Couldn't agree more. It isn't that you made an "inappropriate attack" on Bush. What does Bush have to do with a thread discussing a unilateral decisi
46 Frequentflyer : Never did, never will. This is pure demagogy designed to make him feel somewhat good before he at last retires. And consistent with 12 years of very
47 Post contains links and images Halibut : To those of you who say or believe the US doesn't give enough to the poor around the world : Get the effing Facts ! http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fu
48 Post contains links Halibut : http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=730652005 US donations to Africa outstrip Europe by 15 to 1 Frasier Nelson PRIVATE American citizens don
49 Frequentflyer : Quote form an earlier thread: "Frankly, I think there is one unstated reason that the French are doing this. It's France's declining influence in Afri
50 Post contains images Halibut : Oh look it's the Angry , Hate / Blame America 1st crowd ! It is obvious neither of you are awear of how generous the US really is , simply because yo
51 Halibut : Agreed Frequentflyer, Also, Americans do not need our government to tells us to donate to the poor . It's quite obvious , we Americans have no proble
52 StarGoldLHR : $22bn / 380mn people = $5.78 per US Citizen per year. (inc every single penny from every source possible in the country) $6.3bn/ 55mn people = $11.45
53 Slider : Great post from top to bottom....you nailed it. Save that little nugget and repost it every time Africa comes up (as it does often enough in non-av).
54 Halls120 : Hey artie, how do square the above with the below?????
55 BA747YYZ : Typical French need to help people, all they will find is people will now avoid makeing connections in France to avoid the tax, what is even stupider
56 CX747 : A government imposed tax on travelers. I'm sorry but I just can't go along with this project. Have a box on tax return statements where people can don
57 SmokinL1011 : Hate America? If I take a view point on a certain subject which criticizes my OWN government that does not mean I hate my country. My initial comment
58 GeorgiaAME : Last time I looked, the number 22,000,000,000 was somewhat larger than 6,300,000,000 by about 15,700,000,000, give or take a few pennies among friends
59 Post contains images SmokinL1011 : Look at it this way, Air France/KLM is becoming so dominant so this tax scheme funneling some passengers like yourself away is good for competition.
60 Halibut : SmokinL1011, Is too much to ask you to say anything/something positive about America with its generosity towards the poor ? Halibut
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