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Gallois/Streiff Stick With Forgeard/Humbert A350?  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 3067 times:

Farnborough is nearly upon us, and the latest A350 "re-think" was slated to debut at this year's premier industry event. However, perhaps the new "outside" management team of Gallois and Streiff will be reluctant to quickly endorse/go-forward with a revised product concept for such a "crossroads" program developed under the now discredited Forgeard/Humbert Administration, and will defer making a final decision and announcement until they've had adequate time to make their own evaluation of the situation?

[Edited 2006-07-03 05:06:08]

[Edited 2006-07-03 05:08:20]

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 3038 times:

Leelaw, as much as you would like to see a weak Airbus company with a lot of problems and no stategy, the opposite will become true in the next weeks.

You can be very sure, that the A350 is developed further-on behind the scenes, farnborough will just be the week to announce the new details to the public - the customers are already informed!

The new managment team is by far better informed about the project as we all are.Otherwise they wouldn´t have signed their contracts!

Expect Airbus to have a comeback - like Boeing had with the B777 and B787!

Johnny  Smile


User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 3027 times:

I think their hands are tied, they can't go with the old new or the new old all new or with the new all new frame, and have no choice but to launch the 350X/370. TAM has been extremely quiet, nary a peep, any bets they are a launch customer?

As DfwRevolution and some others very adroitly pointed out on other threads, they are providing the right products, at the wrong time. It looks like A is 10 years behind B at the moment, the next chance that they will have to compete is in the narrow body upgrade cycle.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5692 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months ago) and read 3002 times:
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Quoting Johnny (Reply 1):
Leelaw, as much as you would like to see a weak Airbus company with a lot of problems and no stategy, the opposite will become true in the next weeks.

On the contrary, pushing ahead blindly might be a sign of a weak Airbus and a sign of weakness in the new management team.

Calling a short pause in some processes and programs to take stock and review the situation might be the prudent thing to do.

Of course it might not be needed but doing so would not be a sign of weakness.

Regards



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months ago) and read 2997 times:

If Aibus get this next iteration of the 350 wrong, they will loose a lot of business.
At this stage the appearance of being in control is more important than announcing at Farnbourgh.
Customers will understand that!

Ruscoe


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months ago) and read 2993 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
new "outside" management team of Gallois and Streiff

As I understand it the principle of two Chairmen and two CEOs has been retained? So the management team consists of:-

Joint Chairmen - Bischoff, Lagardere.

Joint CEOs - Enders, Gallois.

Airbus CEO - Streiff.

So only Streiff is 'new'?

As to what is announced, one gets the impression that, prior to the axeing of Forgeard/Humbert, one faction wanted to scrap the A350 and concentrate on a larger aircraft to compete with the 777, and another wanted to build both.

Streiff in particular will need time to 'play himself in' and get to know what is going on before decisions like that are taken. So the sensible thing would appear to be to make a 'holding' announcement only at Farnborough.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 1):

You can be very sure, that the A350 is developed further-on behind the scenes, farnborough will just be the week to announce the new details to the public - the customers are already informed!

Johnny, unfortunately for Airbus..

quoting EK's Clark:

"He said the original A350 would have been a good aircraft "if it was delivered in 1993." Emirates would prefer to wait to see exactly what the A370 will be before committing to the 787-10, "but we are running out of time." Airbus has not yet committed to going ahead with the new variant, he added. "Airbus told us that Singapore Airlines was excited by the new A370, but then they ordered the 787-9.""

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=5475



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

From Guardian Unlimited:

Mr Enders and Mr Streiff are due in Toulouse today to put the finishing touches to an A380 "recovery plan". The pair, with Mr Gallois heading finance, space, defence and Eurcopter, are expected to order a complete redesign of the A350 mid-sized jetliner - the troubled rival to Boeing's 787 Dreamliner.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1811156,00.html

What will ordering "a complete redesign of the A350" require in terms of time at this stage of the game? Can this get done by Farnborough or does a deferral of unveiling any new plans (at least with meaningful precision) now seem inevitable? Will Mr. Udvar-Hazy relax/withdraw his previous admonition that the "A350 re-think" needed to be complete by Farnborough or else?

Stay Tuned.

Additionally, perhaps I should have characterized the new administration as Enders/Streiff in the topic heading, at least as it relates to Airbus?


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
Additionally, perhaps I should have characterized the new administration as Enders/Streiff in the topic heading, at least as it relates to Airbus?

Humbert is being replaced by Christian Streiff (right), 51, previously chief operating officer (COO) of French industrial group Saint-Gobain.

Under a revised structure Streiff will report to Enders...


http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...troubled+EADS+as+Forgeard+and+Humb


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
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Quoting StealthZ (Reply 3):
Calling a short pause in some processes and programs to take stock and review the situation might be the prudent thing to do

And a management change is usually the perfect opportunity to do just that.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
So only Streiff is 'new'?



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 8):
Under a revised structure Streiff will report to Enders...

That's definitely "new"

Regards


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
As I understand it the principle of two Chairmen and two CEOs has been retained?



Quote:
Newspapers and analysts said however that an opportunity had been missed to do away with the dual leadership structure that many feel is problematic.

"EADS chose to maintain its dual structure rather than completely overhauling its governance," analysts at Exane BNP Paribas wrote in a research note.

"This conforms to our expectations but is nonetheless disappointing. If EADS does not review its governance after such an event, when will it do so?"

The Financial Times wrote: "Deeper reforms have been postponed and it remains to be seen whether EADS shareholders have only managed to shift the deckchairs on the Titanic or whether they have managed to avoid some of the obstacles facing the group."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060703...rancegermanyaerospace_060703222606


User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2392 times:

I think there will not be a launch of the 370 at the airshow, too quick. The launch will need to be with a detailed spec sheet to bring any credibility to the project. Shooting from the hip after a false start could be very damaging. Remember, many of the very customers for the 370 are also smarting from the 380 delays right now.

I would expect some very good presentations of what they are thinking and get lots of feedback from their customers. Listening to what the customer's need is critical to have a success with this launch.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
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I still do not believe going forward with the A350 as it now exists would be a mistake. Airbus needs an "A330NG" to fight the momentum the 787 has and continues to build. The A330 will fare poorly against the 787 in most every category except on price which means, like the 767, it's future is probably measured in the scores of orders to existing customers of the type. The A330NG/A350 would at least put forward a plane better able to compete and serve as a logical replacement and expansion program for existing A332/A333/A342/A343 customers. It probably will not sell as well as the 787 will, but it should sell significantly better then the A330/A342/A343.

Airbus does need to address the A345/A346/772LR/773ER market, but right now they risk addressing it after most customers have bought those four planes and won't need new ones anytime soon. And in the interim, while Airbus treads water selling handfuls of A370s to airlines like EK who just need to expand, period, and don't much care what they use, Boeing will work to leapfrog it with Y3.

I know Airbus does not want to effectively cede the A345/A346 market to the 777 anymore then they want to effectively cede the A330/A342/A343 market to the 787. But Airbus can blunt the 787's momentum earlier then they can the 777's. And more smaller widebodies need replacement in the near term then larger ones. So staying the course with the A350 might bring Airbus more financial and customer stability then forging ahead with a brand-new larger widebody A370.

And if Airbus also launches an "A320NG" around 2010-2011, they could consolidate their narrowbody customer base and maybe land some more orders from airlines seeking to replace MD-8x and 737 Classics. And then when the engine manufacturers launch their new engines, Airbus can add them to the A320NG and use it while they develop a true A320RS to compete with whatever Boeing launches at that time as Y1.

And Airbus can also spend the time working on a true A370 that will effectively compete with whatever Boeing launches as Y3.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Fair Use Excerpt From Associated Press:

New Airbus team needs flying start
Changed management must take decisive action quickly, analysts say

...Airbus has received only 100 orders for its planned A350 jet, billed as a midsize, long-range, fuel-efficient rival to the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which has 350 orders. Toulouse, France-based Airbus is widely expected to announce a more ambitious redesign at Britain's Farnborough Air Show, which opens in two weeks.

"It's clear that's what the market wants," said an official close to the plane maker, who asked not to be identified because the plans for the program are confidential. An EADS spokesman declined to comment.

Christian Streiff, named Sunday to replace ousted Airbus CEO Gustav Humbert, would be signing up to a decision he had little or no role in preparing, industry observers point out -- but one which could be make-or-break for Airbus' attempts to remain a serious rival to Boeing.

Streiff, a former executive with building materials company Saint Gobain, could find it difficult to take the lead on such a major decision in his first two weeks "given that he doesn't know the aircraft market personally," said Agnes Blazy, an analyst with CM-CIC Securities in Paris. "A collegiate decision will therefore have to be taken..."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/276314_airbus04.html


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Farnborough is nearly upon us, and the latest A350 "re-think" was slated to debut at this year's premier industry event. However, perhaps the new "outside" management team of Gallois and Streiff will be reluctant to quickly endorse/go-forward with a revised product concept for such a "crossroads" program developed under the now discredited Forgeard/Humbert Administration, and will defer making a final decision and announcement until they've had adequate time to make their own evaluation of the situation?

There was a similar set of questions that arised once Condit was finally shown the rear hatch of a 727. The 787 had strong interest from JAL and ANA but it was still dicey.

Still, Airbus has no other options at this point. Continuing to sell the A330 is not a option. Continuing to sell the A350 is marginal at best with that model committed to second place in the most profitable segment.


Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):

What will ordering "a complete redesign of the A350" require in terms of time at this stage of the game? Can this get done by Farnborough or does a deferral of unveiling any new plans (at least with meaningful precision) now seem inevitable? Will Mr. Udvar-Hazy relax/withdraw his previous admonition that the "A350 re-think" needed to be complete by Farnborough or else?

If it is delayed, it will be announced before hand. The executives are probably putting out feelers right now to see how long they can delay the plane. There are also some decisions that need to be re-examined about if Airbus should go after the 777 or the 787 or continue their strategy to wedge the two models.


User currently offlineSKGSJULAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2142 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
I know Airbus does not want to effectively cede the A345/A346 market to the 777 anymore then they want to effectively cede the A330/A342/A343 market to the 787. But Airbus can blunt the 787's momentum earlier then they can the 777's. And more smaller widebodies need replacement in the near term then larger ones. So staying the course with the A350 might bring Airbus more financial and customer stability then forging ahead with a brand-new larger widebody A370.

How many major (20 frames-plus) non-US 787 vs A350/370 campaigns remain undecided?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
As I understand it the principle of two Chairmen and two CEOs has been retained

Many companies over the years have tried co-CEO positions and the structure doesn't last long (see Verizon, Citigroup, Charles Schwab), particularly in large public companies. EADS has to stop operating as a quasi-government controlled entity, in order to clarify reporting lines and streamline decision-making.



Omnium curiositatum explorator
User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting SKGSJULAX (Reply 15):
How many major (20 frames-plus) non-US 787 vs A350/370 campaigns remain undecided?

I think it is substantial, Boeing has indicated that it has outstanding proposals on the 787 of around 500. Many of these are probably just feelers or preliminary, others would be in the true RFP stage right now but the airlines have pulled back as the Airbus uncertainly has made pricing less competetive.

Non US airlines in various stages of purchasing planes in the 250 to 300 pax planes are: EK, QR, El Al (on hold), SU (on hold), LH, BA, etc. but I don't think at the moment there are many formal RFP processes currently.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2097 times:
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Quoting SKGSJULAX (Reply 15):
How many major (20 frames-plus) non-US 787 vs A350/370 campaigns remain undecided?

Off the top of my head I can think of LH, BA, QR, EK, GF, SU, LY, SV, EY, ILFC, GECAS, and LA. Even SQ for the direct 777 replacements.

Then there are all the airlines flying less then 20 767s who might need new planes for replacement or expansion.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
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Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 14):
Continuing to sell the A330 is not a option

Correct. Continuing to sell the A330 is a fact, not an option.

Regards


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 2):
they are providing the right products, at the wrong time. It looks like A is 10 years behind B at the moment, the next chance that they will have to compete is in the narrow body upgrade cycle.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
"He said the original A350 would have been a good aircraft "if it was delivered in 1993." Emirates would prefer to wait to see exactly what the A370 will be before committing to the 787-10, "but we are running out of time." Airbus has not yet committed to going ahead with the new variant, he added. "Airbus told us that Singapore Airlines was excited by the new A370, but then they ordered the 787-9.""

The A350 used many technologies that would have not been available in 1993 it is a great and modern aircraft that already got many customers.
Clark really is exagerating on this one -he is of course not very satisfied with the A380 delay but he also seems to be very reluctant to order the 787-10. They have been mentioned as a potential launch customer a couple of time but still they hesitate to place an order, yet.
The main complaints regarding the A350 was not that it is an old design that used old technolgies. Airlines like SQ and LH demanded more range, a higher cruise speed and some demanded a wider cabin.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2026 times:
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Quoting Columba (Reply 19):
Clark really is exagerating on this one -he is of course not very satisfied with the A380 delay but he also seems to be very reluctant to order the 787-10. They have been mentioned as a potential launch customer a couple of time but still they hesitate to place an order, yet.

You can't order a plane that is not yet available.

Afterall, Mr. Clark has been talking positive about the A380-900 for some time now, yet I don't see any orders for it from them on Airbus' page.  Wink

When Boeing is ready to offer the 787-10, I am sure EK will be there with an order measured in the scores of frames.

And chances are very good that if Airbus does indeed launch the 777-sized version, EK will be there with an order measured in the scores of frames when the largest model EIS'.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 19):
The A350 used many technologies that would have not been available in 1993 it is a great and modern aircraft that already got many customers.

you might be correct, but my response was to.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 1):
You can be very sure, that the A350 is developed further-on behind the scenes, farnborough will just be the week to announce the new details to the public - the customers are already informed!

The new managment team is by far better informed about the project as we all are.Otherwise they wouldn´t have signed their contracts!

cheers.. Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

New Airbus, EADS Managers Under Pressure To Reveal Revised A350

New Airbus CEO Christian Streiff is under enormous time pressure to finalize plans for the relaunch of the ill-fated Airbus A350 at or before the Farnborough Air Show.

Despite the recent management shake-up, the airframer is understood to be preparing to reveal further details within the next two weeks about the aircraft that would compete with Boeing's 777 and 787. The Farnborough Air Show starts July 17.


http://www.awstonline.com/avnow/news...omm_story.jsp?id=news/AIR07066.xml


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

As I've been saying all along, Humbert was a good CEO (should have stayed on) and was a victim of circumstance...

"Emirates, Airbus's most influential airline customer, expressed disappointment at the resignation of Airbus CEO Gustav Humbert (ATWOnline, July 3). According to Emirates President Tim Clark, "Gustav was a safe pair of hands. But in the political labyrinth that EADS/Airbus sits, I suspect he had little chance of survival." Clark also said Humbert was handed a "poison chalice" with the A380 and A350 problems. Last month, Clark told this website that Emirates remained "totally committed to the A380" and that Humbert was an "honest man" who was demanding accountability (ATWOnline, June 22)."

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=7%2F6%2F2006



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1775 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):

I started a thread about Mr. Clark's comments: Clark Maintains Support For Ex-Airbus CEO Humbert (by Leelaw Jul 6 2006 in Civil Aviation), but so far it hasn't sparked any discussion.


25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : oh..I didn't see it.....well..it seems as if Mr. Clark isn't blaming Mr. Humbert for this latest Airbus gaffe......Champion would have been a better
26 Ken777 : I believe that Airbus will go with the 370 program at Farnborough, but have doubts that they will stop work on the 350 program. While the 350 is not t
27 Astuteman : Production being the appropriate word. This aircraft has as good as completed the design process, with the exception of resolution of production issu
28 87dreamin : Personally, I think that Gallois/Streiff ought to steal a page from Jim McNerney. Seems to me that Airbus' biggest problem is neither the A380 or the
29 Stitch : That may not be a bad idea. No matter what Airbus does, they're going to be at an EIS disadvantage to Boeing. If they go with the A350 as-is, it will
30 Post contains links NorCal : According to this article it seems that the new CEO needs time to judge the A350, maybe ruling out a Farnborough launch? http://business.timesonline.c
31 87dreamin : Wow. That sure reads like a "prepare the market" leak.
32 Mariner : You mean - the kind of things Herr Humbert should have said to the troops after the announcment of the A380 delay? mariner
33 Leelaw : Thanx for posting the link to the "Times" article NorCal. The reporter, Mr. Robertson, describes the difficulties faced by Mr. Streiff regarding the A
34 Post contains images Halibut : Flying start ? Yes indeed ! After Forgeard's A380 Mega Tsunami leveled the place , they'll certainly have there work cut out for them ! Good Luck guy
35 Longhaulheavy : I think all airliners.net members should become co-CEOs, and all management decisions can be battled out on the individual threads.
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