747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6754 times:
I has mix feeling about this post due to the tragic lost on that fateful day, but I feel this story had to be told.
On July 17 ten years ago a TWA Boeing 747 131 departed JFK for Paris, not to long after the 747 departed was destroyed in a inflight expulsion. The aircraft was one of the 747 125 that Eastern Air Line order, but Eastern cancel the order in favor of L-1011 Tristar. TWA bought this 747 and turn it into a 747 131. This 747 photo and history was use in an airliner book written in the early 90's.
I remember when I first herd of this crash. I just came home from bike riding, when I came home, my father was watching CNN and the head line was TWA 747 exploded. Later there would be heart braking stories for example the little faren exchange student who was flying back home to Paris and died in the crash. Also their was to me the most heart braking story of all, when a man lost his wife and two daughters onboard. There also a triumph over tragedy story where a comic striped writer made a cariter base on his sister, who was onboard flight 800.
Last was is the story of all is about the captain, I believe his name is spelled Kevorkian. You could Tell he was happy flying 747, because the News said he had a my other car is a Boeing 747 bumper striker on his car.
These people should be remembered ,and wrote this because of the aniversary of TWA flight 800, may all those people lost in this tragic crash RIP.
CSMUK From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 51 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6724 times:
My thoughts really go out to all those who where effected in that horrid accident, sometimes I think if that situation had to happen to me, then I want to be the one on the aircraft who dies, not one of the family members who where at home left behind!
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6720 times:
While you are entitled to write this reflection on a very sad event, I would suggest you turn on the spell checker on your PC, and also consider re-reading what you write before posting.
That way, you can ensure it makes sense.
Jonno From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6639 times:
I typically take the high road and don't comment about bitchy replies, but telling the poster of this thread to check the spelling is rude, rude, rude. Has it occured to anybody that the poster may be deaf and is writing in ASL (American Sign Language)?
And if the poster isn't deaf, why not send him/her a private message about the spelling, which has NOTHING to do w/the topic!
TVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2206 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6575 times:
Back on topic...
It is kinda spooky but I flew that aircraft back in the 80's from STL to ORD. I didn't know it until last year, but I was going over some old pictures and there was a picture of me in front of the window and the plane in the backround just before boarding. The plane's number was visible. I wondered and checked and it matched.
It is a tragedy that will linger in our memories for a long time.
87dreamin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6490 times:
I'm sorry -- what deceit, what lies, what unanswered questions? No terrorism. Exploded center wing tank caused by an underfueled tank overheated by external AC packs on a hot day; sparked by uncased, old wiring.
Since then, aging aircraft, aging wiring ADs, soon-to-be-released fuel-tank inerting AD, nitrogen-inerting system certified. And TWA never recovered.
TWA 800 was an unimaginable tragedy -- that govt. and industry have worked hard to address responsibly and with no small amount of pain.
Please try to be a bit more judicial in your posts.
ANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6490 times:
It's amazing how small the world is. In the past two years I have met and flown with people who knew victims of flight 800. I had a jump seating flight attendant and we got to talk and she told me how she used to work with TWA, she was hired in 96. So I went on to ask her if she knew anyone on flt 800 and she said yes. A young black man she trained with and became friends with just a few month earlier was called upon to work the Rome flight, which was later canceled. He spoke with her and told her something wasen't right and he didn't feel he should go to work. The problem was he was a new hire, and on reserve so he had no choice. Well he left his crash pad or home got to the airport to find out he was now deadheading on TWA Flight 800.......... The flight actually bounced around through crews from what I was told. A flight that was normally pretty senior went pretty junior and had more then one reserve on it.
About 7-8 months ago I flew with a first officer that was a furloughed TWA flight attendant. We had a long layover and went out and talked over dinner and drinks about how much he missed TWA and how great it really was there. He also told me how he studied to be a pilot basically sitting on his jumpseating working flights. So he then went on to talk about Flight 800 and how his girlfriend, a reserve was called to work it. I'm pretty sure it was Jill Z. I forget her full last name. If you go on the memoral site there are all their pictures as there were over 50 TWA crew members onboard the flight. Jill Z was headlined as her first and last INT'L trip with TWA.
The day that plane blew up for me was unforgettable. I was born and raised in NY and for hours would sit and watch departures from JFK on my front porch. I would of seen it had I been at the beach that day but family was visiting from out of state. I hope they all have been resting peacefully and the center fuel tank "theory" rests with the victims family.
Zkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6471 times:
10 Years ago , crums how times fly's , I can remember that event , Was on my lunch break at school, and was reading the paper, with a few mates and it was all over the front page, even the british paper's make a big deal into things like this, just shows you how my lunch breaks were back then lol's
L1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 971 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6381 times:
I can´t believe it´s been 10 years already... I remember it like it was yesterday. And I´m still shocked to this day!
1996 was such a devastating year in airline safety history... I remember how closely I followed the newscoverage and aftermath of the Birgenair crash in February in which many German Tourists died, in fact two former neighbours died in that crash. I didn´t remember them too well, but my parents did.
Then in May the crucial Valujet crash in the Florida Everglades followed setting off the same controversy about no-frills and low-cost airlines in the US than the Birgenair crash did in Germany.
July 18, 1996 was a beautiful, hot and sunny morning here in Germany (and all of Central Europe) and my mother´s 42nd birthday. I was 18 and in the senior class and back then my mother and I shared a car. Because it was her birthday and she had plans to meet up with friends for breakfast she needed the car that morning, but offered to give me a ride and to drop me off at school.
We listened to the radio when the news came on. The first thing they reported was that an American registered Boeing 747 crashed shortly after leaving JFK Airport New York for Paris. They didn´t say it was a TWA flight right away, but I knew instantly that it had to be a TWA aircraft, as they were the only US carrier at the time flying 747´s from JFK to Paris. I remember how I said to my mom, "This has to be a TWA flight, oh my god how awful", and she immediately replied in a concerned voice and tone like mothers do "Didn´t you just make reservations on them???"
Only when the radio station´s correspondent from New York came on she said that it was (in fact) TWA´s flight 800 which crashed on it´s way to Paris Charles de Gaulle with over 200 passengers and crew onboard and that everyone on the plane is feared dead. My mom dropped me off and went on to her celebration, while I talked to my best friend (who is as much of an aviation buff and enthusiast as I am), he already knew about the tragedy and of course we talked about nothing else and concentrating on anything else in school was nearly impossible! I still get goose-bumps when I think of the fact that all that happened even before TWA 800´s scheduled arrival time of 8:15 am!!!
In fact two days before, I made reservations on TWA for a short day trip to Kansas City from Lexington, Kentucky, where I was about to spend the summer with my aunt, uncle and cousins (I partly grew up in KY). I usually took (and still take) DELTA from Germany to the US to see my family and friends and that was already arranged when I decided that I wanted to take a trip to Missouri. DL´s roundtrip fares on the LEX to MCI route weren´t the lowest so I called several other US carriers and finally decided to take advantage of TWA´s cheapest offer. Plus I was so thrilled fly on TWA again after only one experience with them in the early nineties. And the day before the tragedy I told my best friend: "Guess what airline I´m going to take to Kansas City... TWA!!!
I made reservations through TWA´s office in Frankfurt via telephone but asked them to forward the reservation to my travel agency so they can issue the ticket for me. My travel agent had a hard time with TWA cause something went wrong with the filekey. She spent hours on the phone with them and finally got irrate. She told me to come again on the 18th as she should be able to finally issue the ticket by then. What a coincidence!!!
When I walked into the travel agency on the evening of July 18, she just kind of smirked at me and said: "We have you´re ticket, you still want it??? They crashed last night!!! After all that hassle and now they crash!"
When I came home from school that afternoon of course I immediately turned on the TV and watched CNN´s live coverage. I remember the pictures of that piece of the wing floating in the water and that some of the debries was still burning on the surface. Live on TV!!! It was haunting me and I thaught how surreal it was... well 9/11 was still over 5 years in the future and who would have ever expected seeing something so horrifying like that live on TV!!!
Of course I took my TWA flight from LEX via STL to MCI and return a few weeks later. It was business as usual and I was amazed how professional TWA´s operation was, even though I´m pretty sure deep inside all TWA employees were devastated. You couldn´t tell!!! They were all highly professional and went out of their way to provide superior service to their valued customers.
Well that´s my personal TWA story in July 1996.
When I flew back to FRA by the end of August I took DELTA through CVG and JFK and while on approach to JFK from CVG we were in a holding pattern and circled over Long Island and I had to think a lot about TWA 800. When we finally approached JFK the flight attendant announced connecting flight gate information, while I was taking DL flight 72 to FRA another flight connecting to my CVG flight was Swissair 111 to Geneva!!!
Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter): Also their was to me the most heart braking story of all, when a man lost his wife and two daughters onboard.
Former TWA flight attendant Pam Lychner, together with her daughters Shannon and Katie.
Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10): A flight that was normally pretty senior went pretty junior and had more then one reserve on it.
Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10): I'm pretty sure it was Jill Z. I forget her full last name. If you go on the memoral site there are all their pictures as there were over 50 TWA crew members onboard the flight. Jill Z was headlined as her first and last INT'L trip with TWA.
Her name was Jill Ziemkiewicz (what a beautiful young woman she was) and she was the junior flight attendant, second junior flight attendant was Dan Callas who had been with TWA a few months longer than Jill. After that the seniority curve was steep, third junior flight attendant was Ray Lang with 20 years of experience
There is also the story of the 66 year old French Flight Service Manager who was in his 36th year with TWA and was working along with his flight attendant wife of 20 years. They always flew the Paris flight together. In fact they met on flight 800 over 20 years ago. He kept flying because he didn´t want to retire before his wife would be able to. He hated the idea of sitting at home alone waiting for her to come home from a trip. He said without her, he would only be sitting there and be bored!
May they all rest in peace and never be forgotten!
Thank You 747400sp for bringing up this topic and starting this thread!
Elal106 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 975 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6320 times:
i remember cnn that evening. My dad was worried because my aunt was crossing the atlantic on a twa 747 to come visit us that same night. One brief moment of relief, only to follow with another of pain...i remember waking up the next day only to be told that my 19-year-old cousin was on twa 800 on his way to rome to pursue his dream of playing basketball. His luggage arrived on the earlier flight to rome, but he was bumped onto flight 800. Upon recovery of his body, his wallet was returned later that summer. It reaked of tunalike scent. I remember the corners of the photographs inside it that turned white from the saltwater. I grew up flying on TWA. Many memories both good and bad.
Slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 36 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6106 times:
Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9): I'm sorry -- what deceit, what lies, what unanswered questions? No terrorism.
That is your opinion. Go ask Richard Clarke why he continues to lie, among other people. Read 'Frist Strike', do some research, and you'll quickly realize there are certainly other alternative and very viable theories as to what caused it.
I just find it curious that so many people come out of the woodwork to flame me when I bring this topic up. Why not expand your horizons? You believe everything the government tells you?
Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9): Exploded center wing tank caused by an underfueled tank overheated by external AC packs on a hot day; sparked by uncased, old wiring.
That's one plausible idea. Considering a testbed Evergreen 747, which was literally 2 serial numbers from TWA's A/C was tested at the same time, under the same conditions and same time, and the temp of the fuel in the tanks DROPPED, the hypothesis is hardly sound.
That night, the NTSB's very mission was compromised...they were told to fish bodies out of the water instead of finding out why that plane went down. It was a directive that changed their mission. The lies continued from there.
Quoting 87dreamin (Reply 9): Please try to be a bit more judicial in your posts.
The word is "judicious" and I am being extremely judicious in my comments. It is entirely my right as an American, not to mention a TWA employee at that time to question my government.
Once they come through with the FOIA requests to release the debris field among other things, I'll perhaps recant my criticism. Here's a couple other little nuggets for you to digest:
The number of years this crime has gone unsolved.
The number of eyewitnesses that the FBI admitted saw what appeared to be ascending streaks of light.
The number of eyewitnesses interviewed by analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency’s Missile and Space Intelligence Center whose descriptions “were very consistent with the characteristics of the flight of [surface to air] missiles.”
The number of eyewitnesses the New York Times interviewed.
The number of eyewitnesses that the New York Times interviewed who had seen an ascending streak.
The number of witnesses, according to the CIA, who confused the crippled and allegedly ascending TWA 800 with a missile (“the man on the bridge.”)
The number of interviews that the CIA fully fabricated (“the man on the bridge”).
The number of feet the CIA claimed the nose-less plane climbed.
The number of feet the NTSB claimed the nose-less plane climbed.
Of the roughly 750 total FBI eyewitnesses the number who told the FBI they saw the nose-less plane climb at all, including other airline pilots.
“Or less.” The number of total eyewitnesses that, a year later, the New York Times was reporting had seen the crash.
The number of Freedom of Information Act requests to which the NTSB has responded in regards to its climb calculations.
The number of ships or subs the Navy claimed were within 185 miles of the disaster.
The number of Navy ships or subs the FBI, in its final report, admitted was in “the immediate vicinity” of the disaster.
The number of days it allegedly took the Navy to find the black boxes in 130 feet of calm water off the Hamptons.
The number of hours it actually took the Navy to find the black boxes of a crashed Turkish airplane in 7200 feet of water earlier in that year off the Dominican Republic.
The number of seconds missing at the end of both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.
The number of satellites in position to record the disaster.
The number of satellites reportedly broken at that very moment.
The number of times the New York Times used the word “military” or “satellite” in the first two months of reporting on TWA 800.
The number of minutes it took the Department of Defense to alert Russia that one of our satellites had spotted a Ukranian missile accidentally downing one of its aircraft over the Black Sea in October 2001.
The number of different official explanations authorities gave for what the FAA radar technicians had seen “merge” with TWA Flight 800 on the night of July 17.
The number of pieces of “suspicious” debris, many of which had tested positive for explosive residue in Long island, that were sent to the notorious FBI lab in Washington.
The number of pieces of suspicious debris that were never heard of again.
Roughly the number of airline pilots I have communicated with since the book came out.
The number who believed that mechanical failure had destroyed the airplane.
The number of (local) TV and radio interviews I (Jack Cashill) have done since the book came out.
The number of interviewers who were largely or completely supportive.
The number, roughly, that had actually read the book.
The number of mainstream media reporters and producers I have talked to since the book came out.
The number who were largely or completely supportive.
The number who had read the book.
The number of mainstream articles, reviews, or interviews on the book.
The number of times Senator John Kerry referred to the destruction of TWA 800 as a terrorist act on national TV.
The number of references to TWA Flight 800 in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligent Report in 1996 and 1997, on which committee Senator Kerry sat.
The number of good souls whose memories deserve much better than ten years of deceit.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6081 times:
Quoting Elal106 (Reply 13): One brief moment of relief, only to follow with another of pain...i remember waking up the next day only to be told that my 19-year-old cousin was on twa 800 on his way to rome to pursue his dream of playing basketball. His luggage arrived on the earlier flight to rome, but he was bumped onto flight 800. Upon recovery of his body, his wallet was returned later that summer. It reaked of tunalike scent. I remember the corners of the photographs inside it that turned white from the saltwater.
Elal106, I'm terribly sorry about the loss of your cousin. Sometimes, these things seem to simple and easy to accept to those who are fortunate enough to have not had to deal with it. Getting a firsthand account such as yours really brings the tragedy into perspective for the rest of us. Who would have thought that an a.netter among us has had to deal with such an unfortunate event.
Let us also not forget the Montoursville, PA High School group heading to Paris for a summer field trip, suffering the biggest loss of life of the trip from one town.
I remember that during that summer, I worked as a bellboy at the airport Holiday Inn between my junior and senior year. I loved the job as the hours were flexible, the lobby atmosphere was very spacious and relaxed, and all the airline crews stayed there. The morning after, July 18th, I walked up to the private concierge floor to do some dusting and stocking of the pantry. Its very quiet up there around 7am, so I turned on the TV and the default channel was always CNN, just to have something to listen to while I worked, and as I turned around to begin cleaning the windows I heard them mention "airliner crashed". I turned back around to see recovery efforts in the waters off Long Island, as well as video from the night before of the water burning. They showed the Coast Guard pulling up pieces of the aircraft into boats, as well as suitcases and personal belongings. I vividly remember a piece of the red and white fuselage with part of a window bobbing up and down in the water. I couldn't help but sit down and watch zombie-life for the next hour or so while recovery efforts continued. All I could seem to think was, "How many planes can fall out of the sky in one year? First is Valujet, now TWA, and all during the Olympics, too." My first thoughts on the possible crash was one that happens often, terrorist bomb. Seemed like a viable reason: large airliner, many people, well-known carrier, international relations, international scale with Olympics in U.S. We've since seen that it was not terrorism, but a preventive maintenance issue, one that will make air travel safer in the future years due to inert nitrogen gas introduction possibly becoming required on all airlines to prevent overheating and sparking fuel vapors.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6069 times:
Quoting Slider (Reply 15): you'll quickly realize there are certainly other alternative and very viable theories as to what caused it.
I just find it curious that so many people come out of the woodwork to flame me when I bring this topic up. Why not expand your horizons? You believe everything the government tells you?
For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread. Lets focus this thread on remembering those lost. If you would like to debate your claim, feel free to begin another thread as many times as you like, you have that power. We may never know the truth behind it, and that is not something we can control. But this thread is not here to debate whether it was a mechanical failure or your missile belief, but its certainly not the best place to debate it. If this gets turned into a flamewar thread because of the "missile" theory, I will recommend deletion of the entire thread in order to not waste any more time that could be spent on remembering those lost as compared to arguing a point that none of us will ever know.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6019 times:
Believing the gov't is either in one's nature or it is not, I guess it depends on your personality. I don't know that there will ever be enough proof to convince the skeptics -so the cause of this tragedy will remain a mystery for a lot of people.
Whatever the cause of the horrific crash, I can't believe it has been 10 years already. So much has happened in our own lives - and also the aviation business - but I'm sure the memories are still fresh and painful to the families and friends of the 230 people lost that day.
I was at JFK T5 just a week or two after that crash and it was a surreal place. I've always enjoyed the unique Saarinen building, even though it was looking a little dilapidated in places, it was still "cool". But I'll never forget the somber mood lingering around the place. It was evident on the faces of the TWA crewmembers, most of them still wearing yellow ribbons on their uniforms, if I remember correctly. At the gate area (these were the days when you could get airside without a boarding pass), I felt it even more. There were flowers next to one of the gates - not a lot but several bouquets - I didn't find out what they were for or who they belonged to but I imagined that it must have been the gate used to board tragic TWA 800. It made me think about the 230 passengers and crew who came through the same tube and to the same gate area as I was standing in, to board what should have been a routine flight to Paris.
It made me think of the kids from Montoursville, PA, and that it could have just as easily been my high school class trip. I believe I read every obit in the NY Post and Daily News, perhaps searching for answers to questions that cannot be answered. I rarely get this philosophical.
The TWA crash is something that will both interest and haunt me forever. Obviously it didn't have the scope of, say, 9/11, but a lot of the feelings were very similar.
The sad legacy of TWA 800 is that I don't think anything changed or was improved to make flying safer. Assuming that is was a center fuel tank explosion, the exact cause was and will never be determined, so only guesses can be made as to how to prevent future disasters. I hope there is never another one like this.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4036 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5944 times:
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 18): For the sake of those involved and due in large part to the tragedy, please do not try to turn this into a conspiracy theorist thread. Lets focus this thread on remembering those lost. If you would like to debate your claim, feel free to begin another thread as many times as you like, you have that power. We may never know the truth behind it, and that is not something we can control. But this thread is not here to debate whether it was a mechanical failure or your missile belief, but its certainly not the best place to debate it. If this gets turned into a flamewar thread because of the "missile" theory, I will recommend deletion of the entire thread in order to not waste any more time that could be spent on remembering those lost as compared to arguing a point that none of us will ever know
Good summary, Otto. For once, you and I can agree on something!
Happy 4th of July buddy.
But your point is sound and I totally concur. We need to remember those 230 souls. Otto- certainly I shan't create a flame war herein, but wouldnt remembering them also demand that we answer the unanswered questions?
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5829 times:
Quoting Slider (Reply 23): Otto- certainly I shan't create a flame war herein, but wouldnt remembering them also demand that we answer the unanswered questions?
No doubt. Ironically, as I wrote my last post, that thought did come into mind. The sad truth is that we may already know(fuel tank explosion), or we may never know(missile). Some say they saw a missile, some say fuel tank explosion is very logical, but the case has been(at least hypothetically) solved and it would take literally concrete proof, and not just residue or how metal is bent, to have the case re-opened and re-examined. We may know or unfortunately, we may never know.
25 B707stu: Yes, I remember it well. I'll never forget the two Coast Guard or Air Force pilots that were interviewed that night about their 'exercises' and that t
26 Jwenting: OMG, 10 years on and the conspiracy theorists still aren't locked away into the mental institutions they belong in.
27 SmithAir747: I remember July 17, 1996, as vividly as if it happened yesterday. I woke up that morning to the news that a TWA 747 had exploded in midair just after
28 B6JFKH81: I saw the cover of Newsday a few days ago, then saw a lead clip on one of the NY tv channels later that day, about how 10 years later and yet fuel tan
29 VarigB707: Also, i don't intend on busting your chops brother, but next time you post... run the check spelling!
30 ANCFlyer: WOW - only 8 replies until the bull began . . . impressive . . . Way, way, way too late already . . . . thread destroyed . . . nice job Slider and An
31 Slider: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50736 Here's more first hand stuff from actual witnesses, from pilots to on-ground onlookers
32 Boeing nut: If that's the case then evil lost a long time ago when the official cause was announced. Just goes to show that if someone hears lies and innuendo lo
33 Jwenting: Yes, if decent people don't kick conspiracy theorists in the teeth they'll never shut up.
34 Piercey: dammit this is a memorial thread, please start a new thread about the conspiracy and keep the pandora's box closed on this one. back on topic, it's b
35 Dartland: A good friend of my father lost his daughter and girlfriend in TW 800. I remember my dad getting a call from his friend the following morning with the
36 DABTH: Well whatever happend there 10 miles off Long Island`s coast of ten years ago, for me it sounds quite strange. Personally I don`t know what to belive
37 NIKV69: I believe it was a missle. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory or whatever else people in this thread want to bitch about. This is not a the
38 N908AW: Not everything. But I'm not paranoid enough to believe America is destroying its own civilians. How nice of the conspiracy theorists to turn on the g
39 MalpensaSFO: It feels like yesterday, the haunting image of the Time magazine with the wing bobbing downward in the ocean. The image of that damned Ramada at JFK.
40 Haggis79: well I don't know too much about that case, so I don't dare to judge on whether terrorist attack or not.... only thing that strikes me: IF it was an t