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Definition Of Wet Lease  
User currently offlineMlglaw From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Could anyone give an explanation of the term 'wet lease'? Thanks.


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20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircraft.

Thanks
NMike


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Lease the a/c with the crew included (in a nut shell).


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User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.

Basically some one with an airplane and crew ready to fly on behalf of you.

For instance airline A aircraft goes technical and wetlease and aircraft from airline B to fly a load of holiday makers to their vacation.



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User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.

Hey, AFAIK they are two different types of lease.

Wet Lease - Aircraft and Crew

ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance

So, with an ACMI lease you get more than just a Wet Lease.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineDemoose From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1952 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

So what is a Damp Lease (i'm sure i've heard this term too)...is it aircraft and flight deck crew?


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User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9774 times:

I have forgotten - would some kind person remind me what a "damp lease" is?

User currently offlineMlglaw From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9774 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 1):
Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircra

Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?



Sumus Primi BLS'60 - Oderint dum metuant!
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9753 times:

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):

I'm not positive, but i think a change in livery is optional. Also it depends on the leasing company as to the length of the lease.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9753 times:
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Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
Hey, AFAIK they are two different types of lease.

And Dry Lease, where the carrier leases only the aircraft (without crew, insurance or anything else).

The distinctions are becoming meaningless anyhow as more and more financial organizations and lessors are working with airline customers to develop custom-made packages so the carrier gets exactly what it needs (any combination of Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance).

For instance, an existing A340 operator might sign a lease for a few more A340s that covers the aircraft and maintenance only if the engine type isn't the same in order to avoid the additional expenses of supporting a new engine manufacturer.



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User currently offlineTL925 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9699 times:

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
So what is a Damp Lease (i'm sure i've heard this term too)...is it aircraft and flight deck crew?

A Damp Lease is what is currently proposed by Kingfisher for their potential A340-500 routes should the carrier be unsuccessful in receiving international route authority in India. The airline is proposing entering into a Damp Lease with an existing US Carrier. Main characteristic of a Damp Lease is everything similar to an ACMI except for the cabin crew who will remain KFA stewardesses. Should there be a Damp Lease, I would suspect the cabin will also be customized to Kingfisher standards rather than the generic fittings of typical ACMI aircraft.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9650 times:
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Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

The answer is, it depends. The livery will always change to some extent (United Airlines doesn't want a 747 in its color flying French holidaygoers around for Corsair), but depending on the duration of the lease, the cost, the urgency of the aircraft and the mood of the airline CEO, the leased aircraft may just get a quick coat of paint to hide the previous operator, not a "full" livery.

Shortest lease I have seen was for 3 months. That's just my personal knowledge though, not some rule that says a least cannot be shorter than 3 months.



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User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9615 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
Wet Lease - Aircraft and Crew

ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance

So, with an ACMI lease you get more than just a Wet Lease.

With you assumption who would cover/pay for insurance and required maintenance if the aircraft broke???

My friend Wet Lease = ACMI. Take it from someone that been involved in the leasing business for the last 16 years.

While leases can be structured with many clauses, a general definition of a wet lease is ACMI.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAzstagecoach From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9609 times:

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

it's often a one-time affair due to a mechanical fauilure on the scheduled aircraft, so that would make it very shor-term indeed.

Q: when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9587 times:

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 13):
when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?

That would generally be a charter.

See in a wet lease the chartering airline would still generally be responsible for ground handling, fuelling, over flight fees etc.
A tour operator cant really cover these as they no established airport facilities or contracts with service providers directly.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineVatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9521 times:

Some examples:

Dry Lease: works just like an auto lease; you sign a lease and make regular payments, you get a plane, you are responsible for the operation and maintenance of that plane, but you do not own that plane. AA needs a used plane quick, so goes to the desert and gets one owned by ILFC or another leasing company, signs a contract and that plane joins the AA fleet while remaining the property of the leasing company. AA crews fly it, and AA mechanics fix it.

Wet Lease: AirTran wanted to fly to the west coast from Atlanta. The 717 and DC9 couldn't do it nonstop. They could order a longer-range plane but that takes time, and they wanted to start ATL-LAX/LAS/SFO as soon as possible. They leased three A320s from Canadian charter airline Ryan International Airlines, but AirTran had no pilots certified for the A320, so Ryan provided the crews. The planes were operated on Ryan International's certificate, and the flights were sold as "AirTran Airways, operated by Ryan International Airlines". The planes (in this example) were painted in the AirTran livery. The planes were owned, operated, and fixed by Ryan International. The seats were sold by AirTran.



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User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9440 times:

voila:

Wet lease

Dry lease (scroll down to the D's)



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User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9313 times:

Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7):
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?

Taking BA as an example, for two consecutive summers they addressed a capacity shortage by temporarily becoming a 727 operator, wet leasing aircraft from American Trans Air and painting BA titles on them:

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Photo © Andy Martin - AirTeamImages


When delivery of BAe ATP's to the BA Highland and Island Division was delayed BA wet leased two Presidential 146s. They also wore their operator's full livery but were painted with BA titles:

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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages


When there were major works to the runway at STR BA wet leased a short take off and landing BAe 146 to operate their LHR-STR-LHR service. The airctaft had 'British Airways by Flightline' painted on its nose:

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Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters


In 1998 BA again had a capacity shortage addressed by wet leasing a 737 from Air Atlanta that was primarily operated on the LGW-GOT-LGW route in all-white livery with BA titles and Speedmarque and Air Atlanta 'subtitles':

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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl


However there was no indication that the BAe 146s wet leased from Titan for operation by BA Regional out of BHX awaiting the transfer of an RJ100 (G-BZAU) from LGW was operating for BA. The first aircraft:

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Photo © Brian vL


was swapped by Titan for sister ship G-ZAPN on 3 August 02. This second aircraft operated in and out of BHX for BA for several months.


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases? The only thing that they get is the aircraft; their pilots, F/A's, and mechanics operate the aircraft.

User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4179 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9214 times:
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Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18):

Pretty much. As far as the US is concerned, there are other advantages to leasing equipment rather than owning it, such as not having to report it as an asset on your financials.



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User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18):
Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases?

Any wet lease by an American airline would have to be from another US airline or it would fall foul of the USA's protectionist laws. So although - as seen in reply 17 - an airline like BA may and has wet leased American registered aircraft the reverse is impossible.

The nearest to a wet lease of a foreign aircraft by a US airline was when Braniff operated BA and AF Concordes between IAD and DFW. A BA Concorde would arrive at IAD from LHR with a special British registration. Instead on the normal G-XXXX where 'X' is a letter all BA's Concordes were reregistered in the non-standard format G-NXXYY where 'X' is a number and 'YY' are the last two letters of the aircraft's former registration. So, for example, G-BOAA was reregistered G-N94AA.

When the aircraft arrived at IAD its British registration was cancelled. It was reregistered to Braniff with a standard format US registration. In the above example this would have been N94AA. The legal UK documentation the aircraft was required to carry on the trans-Atlantic leg of its journey was then placed in a small cupboard in the toilet. They were replaced in the cockpit with the American legal documentation. The aircraft was then flown by a Braniff crew on the IAD-DFW-IAD rotations with, for legal insurance purposes, a BA crew in attendance and with a patch stuck over the 'G-' part of the former British registration.

On arrival back at IAD the whole laborious process was repeated in reverse and the aircraft was placed back on the British register until its next rotation to IAD.


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