Dogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4752 times:
Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircraft.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4752 times:
Lease the a/c with the crew included (in a nut shell).
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4739 times:
Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.
Basically some one with an airplane and crew ready to fly on behalf of you.
For instance airline A aircraft goes technical and wetlease and aircraft from airline B to fly a load of holiday makers to their vacation.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Dogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4727 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3): Wetlease is also termed as ACMI. Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance.
Hey, AFAIK they are two different types of lease.
Wet Lease - Aircraft and Crew
ACMI - Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance
So, with an ACMI lease you get more than just a Wet Lease.
Mlglaw From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4711 times:
Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 1): Wet lease is when the crew is given with the aircraft as apposed to Dry Lease when you only get the aircra
Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?
Dogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4690 times:
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3129 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4690 times:
And Dry Lease, where the carrier leases only the aircraft (without crew, insurance or anything else).
The distinctions are becoming meaningless anyhow as more and more financial organizations and lessors are working with airline customers to develop custom-made packages so the carrier gets exactly what it needs (any combination of Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance).
For instance, an existing A340 operator might sign a lease for a few more A340s that covers the aircraft and maintenance only if the engine type isn't the same in order to avoid the additional expenses of supporting a new engine manufacturer.
TL925 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4636 times:
Quoting Art (Reply 6): So what is a Damp Lease (i'm sure i've heard this term too)...is it aircraft and flight deck crew?
A Damp Lease is what is currently proposed by Kingfisher for their potential A340-500 routes should the carrier be unsuccessful in receiving international route authority in India. The airline is proposing entering into a Damp Lease with an existing US Carrier. Main characteristic of a Damp Lease is everything similar to an ACMI except for the cabin crew who will remain KFA stewardesses. Should there be a Damp Lease, I would suspect the cabin will also be customized to Kingfisher standards rather than the generic fittings of typical ACMI aircraft.
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3129 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7): Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?
The answer is, it depends. The livery will always change to some extent (United Airlines doesn't want a 747 in its color flying French holidaygoers around for Corsair), but depending on the duration of the lease, the cost, the urgency of the aircraft and the mood of the airline CEO, the leased aircraft may just get a quick coat of paint to hide the previous operator, not a "full" livery.
Shortest lease I have seen was for 3 months. That's just my personal knowledge though, not some rule that says a least cannot be shorter than 3 months.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4552 times:
Azstagecoach From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4546 times:
Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7): Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?
it's often a one-time affair due to a mechanical fauilure on the scheduled aircraft, so that would make it very shor-term indeed.
Q: when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4524 times:
Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 13): when a tour company charters the same aircraft on a long-term contract, that would seem to be a "wet lease" as well. does the term only apply to airlines leasing a plane?
That would generally be a charter.
See in a wet lease the chartering airline would still generally be responsible for ground handling, fuelling, over flight fees etc.
A tour operator cant really cover these as they no established airport facilities or contracts with service providers directly.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Vatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 893 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4458 times:
Some examples:
Dry Lease: works just like an auto lease; you sign a lease and make regular payments, you get a plane, you are responsible for the operation and maintenance of that plane, but you do not own that plane. AA needs a used plane quick, so goes to the desert and gets one owned by ILFC or another leasing company, signs a contract and that plane joins the AA fleet while remaining the property of the leasing company. AA crews fly it, and AA mechanics fix it.
Wet Lease: AirTran wanted to fly to the west coast from Atlanta. The 717 and DC9 couldn't do it nonstop. They could order a longer-range plane but that takes time, and they wanted to start ATL-LAX/LAS/SFO as soon as possible. They leased three A320s from Canadian charter airline Ryan International Airlines, but AirTran had no pilots certified for the A320, so Ryan provided the crews. The planes were operated on Ryan International's certificate, and the flights were sold as "AirTran Airways, operated by Ryan International Airlines". The planes (in this example) were painted in the AirTran livery. The planes were owned, operated, and fixed by Ryan International. The seats were sold by AirTran.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4377 times:
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4250 times:
Quoting Mlglaw (Reply 7): Is it a long term or short term lease and does the livery change?
Taking BA as an example, for two consecutive summers they addressed a capacity shortage by temporarily becoming a 727 operator, wet leasing aircraft from American Trans Air and painting BA titles on them:
When delivery of BAe ATP's to the BA Highland and Island Division was delayed BA wet leased two Presidential 146s. They also wore their operator's full livery but were painted with BA titles:
When there were major works to the runway at STR BA wet leased a short take off and landing BAe 146 to operate their LHR-STR-LHR service. The airctaft had 'British Airways by Flightline' painted on its nose:
In 1998 BA again had a capacity shortage addressed by wet leasing a 737 from Air Atlanta that was primarily operated on the LGW-GOT-LGW route in all-white livery with BA titles and Speedmarque and Air Atlanta 'subtitles':
However there was no indication that the BAe 146s wet leased from Titan for operation by BA Regional out of BHX awaiting the transfer of an RJ100 (G-BZAU) from LGW was operating for BA. The first aircraft:
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4215 times:
Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases? The only thing that they get is the aircraft; their pilots, F/A's, and mechanics operate the aircraft.
BlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3129 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4151 times:
Pretty much. As far as the US is concerned, there are other advantages to leasing equipment rather than owning it, such as not having to report it as an asset on your financials.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4073 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 18): Given the definition of Dry Lease, does that mean that the bulk of leases held by US carriers are dry leases?
Any wet lease by an American airline would have to be from another US airline or it would fall foul of the USA's protectionist laws. So although - as seen in reply 17 - an airline like BA may and has wet leased American registered aircraft the reverse is impossible.
The nearest to a wet lease of a foreign aircraft by a US airline was when Braniff operated BA and AF Concordes between IAD and DFW. A BA Concorde would arrive at IAD from LHR with a special British registration. Instead on the normal G-XXXX where 'X' is a letter all BA's Concordes were reregistered in the non-standard format G-NXXYY where 'X' is a number and 'YY' are the last two letters of the aircraft's former registration. So, for example, G-BOAA was reregistered G-N94AA.
When the aircraft arrived at IAD its British registration was cancelled. It was reregistered to Braniff with a standard format US registration. In the above example this would have been N94AA. The legal UK documentation the aircraft was required to carry on the trans-Atlantic leg of its journey was then placed in a small cupboard in the toilet. They were replaced in the cockpit with the American legal documentation. The aircraft was then flown by a Braniff crew on the IAD-DFW-IAD rotations with, for legal insurance purposes, a BA crew in attendance and with a patch stuck over the 'G-' part of the former British registration.
On arrival back at IAD the whole laborious process was repeated in reverse and the aircraft was placed back on the British register until its next rotation to IAD.
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