Sampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7458 times:
According to this morning's Folha (online) Varig has no money and won't make it til August. I don't think there is a lot of new news here but wonder if anyone has anything to date.
How long was it before Pan Am, Braniff, TWA and Eastern finally bled out?
I don't remember TransBrasil or VASP taking this long!
Ualcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 482 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7385 times:
I am sorry for RG, I am sorry for RG employees, I am sorry for contractors who work with RG. However, if we lost Pan Am in the US, Brasil can lose RG. It seems that the Brasilian courts are extending RG's life with the hope that Brasil's historically great airline will somehow survive. But, if there's no money, limited flights, no service, no wages, nothing.........isn't it time to accept it and pull the plug? I really wish someone would pull a rabbit out of a hat and RG would somehow be able to make it, but at this point, it's time for everyone, and most of all, RG employees, to move on with their lives. I'm so sorry for RG.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11200 posts, RR: 61 Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7328 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Sampa737 (Thread starter): According to this morning's Folha (online) Varig has no money and won't make it til August. I don't think there is a lot of new news here but wonder if anyone has anything to date.
True, Deloitte (Varig administrator) states that the company has no conditions to keep flying (in fact nowadays VarigLog every day made a new deposit to pay Infraero Airport Charges and to buy fuel).
Yesterday a group, with reliable Brazilian investors and Cinzel Partners from US announced that they will made the necessary steps to bid up to US$ 600 million for RG operations.
Varig keep flights to Frankfurt, New York/Miami combined, Buenos Aires, Caracas, Santiago, Lima/Santa Cruz de La Sierra combined and domestic destinations.
Even on shuttle service SDU-CGH Varig reduce the number of flights (in the past a flight every 30 minutes between 6h30 and 21h, nowadays a flight every 90 minutes) and JJ/G3 are very happy (for who dont know, the shuttle service keep one of the highest fares in Brazil, and for sure in the world, around US$ 180 + fares for a 228 miles flight).
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7119 times:
Sad day... Another great airline is dieing off....My clients like RG alot and no they will have to take either AR,AA,UA,DL. from the US. My heart goes out to all the employees of RG. Good Luck and my God be with you and your families...
DannieFly From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7070 times:
My question is why would VarigLog or Cinzel Partners, for that matter, pour money down a lawyer-, creditor-, legal minefield- filled drain?
Brazilian legal experts say that even though legal liabilities for the old VARIG are supposed to be off the table for the new owner (if we ever get one), nothing stops a whole slew of creditors(i.e., pension fund, Receita, INSS, BR Dis. etc.) from suing the new owners for past debts.
Why wouldn't a potential buyer wait until the company acknowledges the reality, or until the judge does the right thing and stop beating this proud, but still dead horse? At that point, there would be no doubt about legal liabilities--they would all belong to the liquidated company.
While VarigLog's efforts appear to be valiant, the goodwill of a somewhat disorganized, and not-so-forthcoming regulator seems hardly worth it.
Right now we all sit and watch as RG employees, creditors, competitors, and most of all Brazilian consumers suffer.
Lijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6982 times:
I love Varig and have flown several times with them. The current economical situation of the past 10-15 years is ofcourse the problem. Other larger airliners from Brazil like VASP and TransBrasil have disappeared as well. Fuel prices (oil based) are not in line with the current currency and local supplies of sugarcane based fuels are only good for cars not planes.
Other problems were the lack of steady partners for many years in the alliance. (UAL had three+ years severe financial problems and BK, asian airliners had to deal with SARS).
It is sad to see an airline like Varig with such a rich history litteraly bleeding to a financial death.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6618 times:
The sad reality of this situation is that, even though RG's problems have been building for years, the Brazilian government has kept RG with a lock on Brazilian int'l services. The lack of competition now is making it much harder to pull the plug on RG now. While TAM appears ready to dramatically expand its int'l operations, the Brazilian government and people will be similarly exposed if there is not a healthy competitor for TAM. Plus, consumers are the real beneficiaries if Brazil has not one but two strong competitors with international operations. A few 787s for Gol?
I don't see how any creditor will agree to continue to allow its assets to remain w/ a RG successor if they cannot recover at least some of the losses they have incurred under RG. People complain about US bankruptcy laws but no US airline has ever walked away from its liabilities and started over with fresh accounts. I don't know of any other major business anywhere in the world that has had a similar deal.
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5686 times:
Quoting Sampa737 (Thread starter): How long was it before Pan Am, Braniff, TWA and Eastern finally bled out?
None of those carriers "bled out". Pan Am, Braniff and Eastern all shut down with enough cash to effect an orderly liquidation. Braniff had in excess of $100 million in collectable receiveables due from other airlines. Eastern had $100 million on hand after refunding tickets for future travel.
TWA probably came the closest to collapse. I've heard that they had anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks of enough cash to meet payroll and fuel bills before American took over their finances.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4128 times:
WorldTraveler
The issue is not in a few years when the 787 is available.
The issue is now.
GOL will need to buy something used, otherwise the competition will soak up VARIG's market.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4045 times:
According to Airfleets, RG had 25 B737, 1 B757, 3 B767, 3 B777 and 4 MD11.
I appreciate that these numbers are fluid, but some/most of these aircraft are available. I also remember the problems that Finnair recently had with a RG MD11, but some of these aircraft would provide a short term capacity boost.
Turbulence From Spain, joined Nov 1999, 963 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3410 times:
The problem in RG is that for too many years, too many chair people have used too much help money for increasing their own salaries. It is an enormous pity for the employees, but I sincerely think it is time to stop these abuses that were for the benefit of a few dozens of directives. I would agree only in further governement helps if the whole chairmanship was changed, or if somehow JJ was able to manage absorbing fleet and workers.
The old plan of fusioning them, TAM absorbing the debt, the new company keep the name VARIG and the chairmanship being that of VARIG, was an insult to Comandante Amorim, the whole range of TAM staff, and the brazilian contributors.
From suitable and reliable "insider" source, most of the planes have been returned or are to be to the lessors, and all of them have already had their next lease contracts written.
In parallel, and according to the same reliable insider source, JJ has already closed agreements for 33 A32Xs and 6 330s.
I just hope TAM and GOL can manage to employ the most of the VARIG workers affected by this situation.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2672 times:
According to Airbus, the 20 A32X will be delivered between 207-2010 and 8 A350 from 2012.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2650 times:
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2442 times:
Bennett,
I agree that Gol needs to jump into the market quickly but taking on a new fleet type and becoming an int’l carrier is a big step for Gol or any airline but esp. one that is trying to keep its costs down. It’s pretty easy to see what TAM will do but Gol is not as clear cut. They could abandon their low cost domestic approach and become an intercontinental carrier but with lower costs or they could stick to narrowbodies and become a dominant player in S. America. I can’t predict where they will go but while it looks appealing to jump into the intercontinental market now, it may make a lot more sense to gradually build that side of the business while reaping strong profits on the domestic and S. American routes.
Jog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
Quoting Turbulence (Reply 14): In parallel, and according to the same reliable insider source, JJ has already closed agreements for 33 A32Xs and 6 330s.
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 16): According to Airbus, the 20 A32X will be delivered between 207-2010 and 8 A350 from 2012.
It is already official that TAM will buy 15 A319, 16 A320, and 6 A332 in addition to the A32X and A350 they ordered last year. All new orders are scheduled to arrive until 2010. The first two new A332 will arrive 2007. Until September 2006 TAM will have all three A332 back that are currently leased to EY (used for new service to LHR and for switching JFK to daily night in both directions). For more details have a look at TAM Ordered More 37 Airbus (by Jrosa Jun 29 2006 in Civil Aviation)
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11200 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2358 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 18): Does anybody have the current international active network of VARIG? What int. flights do they still operate today?
GRU-FRA-GRU, GIG-FRA-GIG, GIG-GRU-LHR-CPH, GRU-MIA-GIG, GIG-GRU-CCS-GRU-GIG, GIG-EZE-GIG, GRU-EZE-GRU, GRU-SCL-GRU, GIG-GRU-VVI-LIM-GRU-GIG. JFK and LAX not regular.
My best:
1) Loads on GIG and GRU flights yesterday
2) Aircraft in use
3) News:
a) PP-VRI has been grounded yesterday after RG2205 (MAO-BSB-GIG) and due to this RG8778 has been cancelled yesterday (and forced a big overbooking on GRU-FRA flight). It's confirmed for today. PP-VRJ seems to be grounded on saturday. Probably both has been requested by the lessor.
b) A new auction will take place on July 12 with a mininum bid of US$ 400 million
c) VarigLog paid again Fuel and Airport Usage charges for Varig yesterday.
d) VarigLog today announced they will start to op with 20 aircrafts but their desire is to hit a fleet of 80 planes (no comments on when!)
e) Air France (AF) says it's ready to fly more frequencies from both GRU and GIG.
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2260 times:
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11200 posts, RR: 61 Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2047 times:
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Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 23): Very poor loads of RG...possible Smiles pax getting rid of their miles? Is anybody still buying RG tkts?
Hi Richard, sales are really poor, in fact very low. Smiles IIRC is limited to 10% of the aircraft but due to several flights cancelled, some flights get 20% and up to 30% of the plane with FF free tickets.
Sales are limited to people that come into the airport and verify that the flight will departure. Due to lower fares, i believe they still sell some tickets.
Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 23): Does anybody believe that this new auction is the salvation for RG?
Hard to believe, now another plane has been grounded, PP-VTM. Today they cancel also one of the flights to EZE (RG8648 in the afternoon).
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Sampa737: Band News reports today that 77 flights were cancelled as of 16 hours, July 5.
26 Ghost77: Anyupdate on RG's status? ghooost77 APM
27 LipeGIG: Hi Ghost, i will try to post a new thread with fresh info on Varig status later on. Felipe
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