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KLM: Happy With A330 So Far?  
User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 697 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

I know it hasn't been long since the first one was delivered, but was wondering if any of you guys have heard or read anything regarding what KLM thinks about the A330. If I'm not mistaken, the last time they bought Airbus (310), well, it didn't go all that well, right?

Thanks,
Billy  Smile

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3995 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7703 times:

Quoting KLMA330 (Thread starter):
If I'm not mistaken, the last time they bought Airbus (310), well, it didn't go all that well, right?

Well, the A310-200 was in KLM service for some 13 years, while its successor, the 767-300 which is built by another fine manufacturer, is now fast on the way out after some 11 years.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

While we're at it, is Air France doing the maintenance?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
While we're at it, is Air France doing the maintenance?

Nope, KLM is. They are also doing the A330 maintenance for Northwest.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineIadbgo From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7567 times:

My wife flew AMS-IAD a few weeks ago and enjoyed it. It's a beautiful plane flying into IAD in the great livery. I fly IAD-AMS on one in September. Unfortunately, on the way back I am on a KL 767.

Which reminds me...how much longer will the 767s be with KL?

IADBGO


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7094 times:

No particular problems with the A332 fleet so far other than the usual problems occuring with the introduction of a new aircaft type in the fleet. Apart from that, there have also been some operational irregularities stemming from the limited size of the fleet - currently standing at only 4 units - and for the same reason the utilization is a bit on the low side.

The average daily aircraft utilization stands at just 13 hours 28 minutes for the A332 fleet this summer, which is quite a bit lower than the numbers for the other longhaul components of KLM's fleet (B772 at 16h06, MD11 at 15h16 and B744 at 15h33). The A332 numbers are expected to improve, though, as more frames are added to the fleet. The next A332 is due to arrive next month and will be registered PH-AOE.


User currently offlineJunior1970 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6400 times:

What's going to be the name of the PH-AOE ?
Anyone know ?

Thx


User currently offlineKLMcedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

There have been some electrical problems, or at least that's what one of the
A332 F/O has told me.
They also had problems with bacteria growing in the fueltanks, but I believe
they sorted that one out. Apperently that is a recurring problem with airbus
aircraft among lot's of operators!

Don't get any ideas, KLM is indeed very pleased with the A332 so far.
Last rumour circling amongst crew is that they now plan to equip them with
a crew rest, wich if is true, is very good news to me , and also means they plan to operate these birds on 11hrs+ legs in the future, otherwise they wouldn't do that;


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

The only problem KLM is suffering at the moment is a shortage of pilots... It might be that some of the A330's/777's on order will get a later delivery, while KLM is going to look in belgium for pilots (most of the Ex-sabena pilots are flying in a foreign country's with a short term contract).

The fact that most Belgium people speek dutch (the ones living in vlaanderen) and live near Holland might be atractive for the Pilots of our neighbour country. Atleast theire welcome  Smile


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 7):
Last rumour circling amongst crew is that they now plan to equip them with
a crew rest, wich if is true, is very good news to me , and also means they plan to operate these birds on 11hrs+ legs in the future, otherwise they wouldn't do that;

Those crew rest areas are supposed to be bunks, located in the cargo hold of the A332. KL is planning to use the A332 on longer routes to open new destinations or add capacity to existing routes. The B772 has proven to be somewhat of an overkill to open new routes, like the recently launched AMS-CTU operation, so the A332 would be a better fit. The A332 is also being considered for reinforced seasonal frequencies to likes of HKG, JNB and destinations in Brasil. For the near future, however, the longest A332 route at KL will be AMS-YVR which is set to receive the aircraft effective the upcoming winter schedule, as is AMS-ATL.


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quote:
The B772 has proven to be somewhat of an overkill to open new routes, like the recently launched AMS-CTU operation, so the A332 would be a better fit

Not from what if heard  Smile , Its actually the opposite, thats also why 4 of the excisting 777-200ER orders where shifted to 777-300ER's


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 7):
Don't get any ideas, KLM is indeed very pleased with the A332 so far.
Last rumour circling amongst crew is that they now plan to equip them with
a crew rest, wich if is true, is very good news to me , and also means they plan to operate these birds on 11hrs+ legs in the future, otherwise they wouldn't do that;

Hi KLMcedric....

Maybe they'll bring 'em during the winter season instead of the MD-11's... ...

edited: here to San Francisco of course. Smile

[Edited 2006-07-07 21:51:44]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
Maybe they'll bring 'em during the winter season instead of the MD-11's... ...

edited: here to San Francisco of course.

If that happens I feel you will spoil us with a brandnew beautiful picture
of the KL A332 in each thread where the word "Airbus" pops up!!!
Hehheh, just messing with you!!

No really if they send the A332 to SFO that would mean I could finally go to SFO, as it's one of the last great american cities I have yet to discover. ( I'm qualified for the 737/747/332 and sofar KL only sent M11 and 772 to SFO) I hear from a lot
of people it's a really great city. Can't wait to make it to SFO some day.

[Edited 2006-07-07 22:01:45]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 10):
Not from what if heard , Its actually the opposite, thats also why 4 of the excisting 777-200ER orders where shifted to 777-300ER's

A route like AMS-CTU would have been better off if opened with a thrice weekly A332 service than with the current twice weekly B772 service. The whole idea of installing the crew rest bunks in the A332 is to allow the aircraft to be used on longer sectors for opening routes and adding seasonal capacity to other routes. Operating the A332 on longer routes will also improve daily utilization rates, which have been rather low so far.

The B77Ws were not ordered to open new routes, but because the aircraft offers better economics than the B772ER and KL can do with the extra capacity on certain routes, where it is now restricted because of the limited number of full-pax B744s in the fleet.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
The only problem KLM is suffering at the moment is a shortage of pilots... It might be that some of the A330's/777's on order will get a later delivery, while KLM is going to look in belgium for pilots (most of the Ex-sabena pilots are flying in a foreign country's with a short term contract).

The fact that most Belgium people speek dutch (the ones living in vlaanderen) and live near Holland might be atractive for the Pilots of our neighbour country.

Most former Sabena Airbus widebody pilots - most of them has qualifications for the A332/333/342/343 - have found jobs with the likes of Emirates and China Airlines, and even Air France. I doubt whether KLM would be able to attract a lot of these guys almost 5 years after SN went belly up.


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 13):
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
The only problem KLM is suffering at the moment is a shortage of pilots... It might be that some of the A330's/777's on order will get a later delivery, while KLM is going to look in belgium for pilots (most of the Ex-sabena pilots are flying in a foreign country's with a short term contract).

The fact that most Belgium people speek dutch (the ones living in vlaanderen) and live near Holland might be atractive for the Pilots of our neighbour country.

Most former Sabena Airbus widebody pilots - most of them has qualifications for the A332/333/342/343 - have found jobs with the likes of Emirates and China Airlines, and even Air France. I doubt whether KLM would be able to attract a lot of these guys almost 5 years after SN went belly up.

I know a ton of belgian pilots who pray everyday (dramatization!) to be hired by KLM. In fact my very best friend is now F/O with SNBA on the Avro and has
over 2000hrs on his log. He sent his CV to KLM and as a reply they told KLM
is only hiring KLS/NLS trained pilots. So I'm afraid that what you're saying is not completely true MauriceB! I would so much like this guy to come work at my airline. (P.S. he's the pilot who safely landed the SN Avro with gear
failure at stockholm previously this year)


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 12):
If that happens I feel you will spoil us with a brandnew beautiful picture
of the KL A332 in each thread where the word "Airbus" pops up!!!
Hehheh, just messing with you!!

 rotfl ...well..you can't blame me... Wink

KL's A332 is a beauty...I saw it takeoff last month from LHR.... Smile

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 12):

No really if they send the A332 to SFO that would mean I could finally go to SFO, as it's one of the last great american cities I have yet to discover. ( I'm qualified for the 737/747/332 and sofar KL only sent M11 and 772 to SFO) I hear from a lot
of people it's a really great city. Can't wait to make it to SFO some day.

yah..SFO is a great city.....the summer season is the best time to come, but of course, that's when they send the 777-200ER.....late spring/early summer is nice too, which would be good since the MD-11 still comes during that period...

I know for a fact you won't be disappointed with SFO..

Regards



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
The only problem KLM is suffering at the moment is a shortage of pilots... It might be that some of the A330's/777's on order will get a later delivery, while KLM is going to look in belgium for pilots (most of the Ex-sabena pilots are flying in a foreign country's with a short term contract).

The fact that most Belgium people speek dutch (the ones living in vlaanderen) and live near Holland might be atractive for the Pilots of our neighbour country. Atleast theire welcome  

Yeah dude...we are short of pilots, but not that short..they are taking belgian pilots ab-initio at the KLS, but thats about it. I have heard they are stopping interviews in August for a bit, so the straights aren't that dire.
Also, you need around 8-10 years seniority right now to hold A330 FO. That being said, the first cocos are being trained for the 330 next month, so the story about the crew rest could hold some salt. (BTW they have crew rest now, 2 J class seats a la 767) But with only 2 destinations for the winter carrying 3 man operation (YVR and ATL), I dont hear of much else long haul expansion.
PS they are also taking KMAR and KLu trained pilots as well, quite a few -16 guys in Fokker groundschool right now


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting Junior1970 (Reply 6):
What's going to be the name of the PH-AOE ?

Edinborough's Parliament Square is the rumour...

As for the initial question in this thread, I think it's a good thing they hold more pax than the B767 with the actual pax loads KLM has and passenger satisfaction is good too. Passengers love an airline who feels they're worth a brand new aircraft! It makes them feel very safe and pampered.

[Edited 2006-07-08 09:56:23]


I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9951 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
The only problem KLM is suffering at the moment is a shortage of pilots...

How can there be a shortage of pilots if the A330s will replace the existing 763 fleet? It's not like KL will add these A330s to their fleet in addition to the 763. I thaught the A330 will replace the 763 on a one-on-one basis, thereby avoiding the risk of looking for much more pilots to be trained for the A330 or at least minimizing this risk. My point is that the pilot shortage at KL for the A330 should not be that serious.

A388


User currently offlineKLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

ITS NOT THAT SERIOUS!!!! But most 767 pilots are going to other types, not just A330. KLM does not recruit rated pilots for any type except F50. As I said above, A330 is fairly senior. No street pilot can hold it, except as a relief pilot (coco)

User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting KLMyank (Reply 19):
ITS NOT THAT SERIOUS!!!!

But Dutch newspaper 'de Telegraaf' reported it as such as to create a stir, as usual. Link in Dutch:
http://reiskrant.nl/reiskrant/reisni...d_door_ernstig_tekort_piloten.html

What a/c type are you on btw?



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineJrebel From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

According to VNC (the Dutch FA union) KL has canceled two A330 orders, added two 777 orders and converted a 74M to a 744 configuration.

In Dutch :

"De geplande bezuiniging die de KLM wilde realiseren is kleiner geworden omdat er twee A330's zijn afbesteld en vervangen zijn door B777's, en er een B747-combi machine is omgebouwd tot een all pax machine."

Link : http://www.vnconline.nl/nieuws/2006/05072006a.htm

Johan


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9951 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting Jrebel (Reply 21):
According to VNC (the Dutch FA union) KL has canceled two A330 orders, added two 777 orders and converted a 74M to a 744 configuration.

In Dutch :

"De geplande bezuiniging die de KLM wilde realiseren is kleiner geworden omdat er twee A330's zijn afbesteld en vervangen zijn door B777's, en er een B747-combi machine is omgebouwd tot een all pax machine."

Link : http://www.vnconline.nl/nieuws/2006/05072006a.htm

Johan

This is odd. How can you talk about cutting costs by cancelling an order for a certain aircraft type (in this case the A332) and replacing it with new aircraft from another aircraft type (the 772)? I know KL has a much larger 777 fleet but they also have the A332 fleet which will grow. How much costs will you save in this case?

A388


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2699 times:
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Hi KLMCedric !!

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 14):
I know a ton of belgian pilots who pray everyday (dramatization!) to be hired by KLM. In fact my very best friend is now F/O with SNBA on the Avro and has
over 2000hrs on his log. He sent his CV to KLM and as a reply they told KLM
is only hiring KLS/NLS trained pilots

Indeed, I don't know why but Flagship carriers such as AF, KL or LH (let's not talk of IB...) are reknown to be hiring pilots with a "house-training/background".

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 14):
(P.S. he's the pilot who safely landed the SN Avro with gear
failure at stockholm previously this year)

I know the Captain and cabin crew who landed that plane (in GOT in fact), but is it the F/O you know ?

FB.



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