I'm disgusted as well, but is it really a surprise ? A basic employee would be simply fired by the company he or she works for without any f.....g golden parachute. And if it is so because he or she did something bad, the ex-employee would got another penalty from any unemployement agency. Is that fair ?
I was thinking the same thing - Europe and the US are very different when it comes to terminating employees and whether the employee did a good job is a non-issue. Many in Europe say that divorcing your spouse iss cheaper and easier than terminating an employee. Remember the riots in France just months ago over proposed changes in the employment laws....there was a reason for that.
And now their is the stock option/insider trading thing to deal with, any news on that?
EE-Kay From Ireland, joined Nov 2001, 152 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 2069 times:
How disgusting! He should be grilled like they're doing in the States to the ex-Enron executives, and other high-profile cases involving insider trading. People, this is Europe... how disgusting. (Not amused)... and yes, I'm no longer an airbus fan, but a Boeing one.
Elvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 2042 times:
Another thread of Foregeard bashing!!
The humanity of it all! Why do you guys insist on beating him up!
Is that about right Mariner?
PS. I think he messed up big time and should have resigned earlier-did a poor job of running airbus. There was probably a clause on his contract that specified a certain severance package in the event of his termination/resignation.
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6481 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1836 times:
Here's my shock, until he was "fired" all the Boeing supporters said he was a problem, and all the Airbus fans said he was a professional, that he knew his job, that Eads did not put unqualified people in positions, etc etc etc.
I admit that their are not much Europeans posters on this thread but it looks just like Enron to me. Until they folded, all management was good and knew what they were doing, and employees had nothing but good to say, the whistle blowers were just that, blowers.
Disclaimer here, I'm not saying Airbus is folding, I am talking about the no admit bad manager principle here. Ever hear a fisherman say his fish smells funny?
Yes... indeed... a very poor job: while he was running Airbus, Airbus replaced Boeing at the number 1 spot in sales and deliveries... true... a very poor job...
As things are today, and I'm considering actual proof here (yes, I know that's a rather seldomly used concept, but I like it nonetheless), Forgeard was relieved of his post.
Whether or not his share sales were based on insider knowledge is something that will have to be proven. If it is, then I'm all for him being sent to jail and EADS and Airbus getting their money back.
But, as it seems, some seem to have forgotten that you're not considered guilty until proven innocent, but the other way around...
There seems to be evidence against him, no doubt about that. But until that, besides all the rampant speculation that's running wild on these forae, turns into conclusive evidence, I'll agree with the minority here saying that, for what he's achieved for Airbus, it's the absolute minimum that he got three year's worth of pay.
Elvis777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
You make an interesting point-but I dont agree. Perhaps you are right and he did a great job. Then if that is the case he was railroaded and shoved out. In which case his "not my fault' is also true and the germans are really to blame (hamburg) for the whalejets delays.
If you are quite happy with him getting 3 years of severance pay that is cool as well. I really dont care on this point as it is EADS (european taxpayers) money.
I think he did a poor job of running airbus. an dthat makes me happy. I was quite content to keep it quiet while he was in charge. Now that he is gone let me explain why I came out on the side of him being a lousy leader (even though I as glad he was doing a poor job..)..
So if truth be told I was quite happy with him being the man. I liked the fact that he kept pushing for the 380. This is good because in MY opinion this is bad for EADS and hence good for boeing. So I wish they had not removed him. This however was an internal EADS decision out of our control. We all made our bed and now must lie on it. EADS , under his leadership, believed that there was a pressing bussiness case for the 380. That is fine. We do not. So I wish he would have stayed longer b/c if we are right it would have helped us gain more market share- while eads flundered with the 380. Same thing goes for the original 350 design. I believe he kept pushing for no changes. That would have been great. I hope his successors follow the same tack. Keep the 350 as originally designed. We can easily live with that. Actually we can easily live with lots of things but that is for another time.
As far as the share thing is concerned, I really dont care. I hope that the appropriate authorities investigate and deal with this matter accordingly.
Opinions just like certain anatomical parts, every body has one, so if you are of the opinion that the man led airbus to greatness (and the title of largest aircraft manufacturer for 5+ years) than have a nice day. I think people who villify him, and who are vested in eads, have a right to be upset. If he led airbus to greatness for 5 years or so (is this really true? I dont know the history... perhaps it was his predecessor who left airbus in great shape) but then he led airbus down a bad path. They are of course right in having an opinion of him less than yours.
finally, for the salary he makes I think he si quite comfortable if certain eads leaning A.net members have a go at him. And I am sure he does not give a hoot about non eads leaning airnet members.
Do you think he'll be penniless becasue of us? Do you think history will judge him any differently???
Anyways, I hope this explains, A bit better, the post you referenced. Sorry for not explaining it better.
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3952 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1758 times:
Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 10): In America CEO's get treated far differently than wage slaves.
In the USA, corporate CEO's are worse than Professional Athletes or Hollywood Actors/Actreess.' It is disgusting greed at it's worst possible scenario. It's like management telling rank and file workers taking salary cuts while they get a fat bonus; "Let Them Eat Cake." When their heads roll, their heads should roll!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9592 posts, RR: 97 Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1663 times:
Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 10): In America CEO's get treated far differently than wage slaves
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 19): In the USA, corporate CEO's are worse than Professional Athletes or Hollywood Actors/Actreess
Unfortunately, I suspect that it's a fact that the type of guys who get offered CEO's jobs are far more diligent in negotiating their contracts than your average employee, and also in most cases probably have far more leverage over what gets inserted in those contracts.
I also suspect that's true wherever the CEO happens to be in the world.
One would imagine Forgeard got his "contractual" entitlements.