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Biggest Metropolitan Areas Without JetBlue Service  
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

I was curious of the biggest US metropolitan areas without any JetBlue service. I thought it would be interesting to see, since lately everyone seems to be arguing about which city B6 will pick next. For this, I used Metropolitan Statistitcal Areas (MSA), not just the actual city limits, since I believe that the MSA tells the bigger picture. Also worth noting, is that I did not include Metro Areas that had B6 service close to it. For example, I considered the Miami metro area to have B6 service, since FLL and PBI have a bunch of flights. I also considered Baltimore to have B6 service, since it is in fairly close proximity to IAD. So here it is:

1. Chicago
2. Philiadelphia
3. Detroit
4. Atlanta
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
6. Minneapolis
7. St. Louis
8. Cleveland
9. Kansas City
10. Cincinnatti
11. Indianapolis
12. San Antonio
13. Norfolk
14. Columbus
15. Milwaukee

Source: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/NumberPortability/msas.html

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

While MSA is a good measurem its not like they could walk into these markets and be sucessful just because they are jet blue ( as much as B6 would like to think theur name has that effect  Wink )

The 1st 4 would probably be rather brutal...

1. Chicago
AA, UA, FL
2. Philiadelphia
Wouldnt be NYC, so FLA is pretty much covered by WN, FL and US
3. Detroit
NW and NK
4. Atlanta
DL, FL and AA (DL and FL have been known to gang up on B6 together if they can)

Now 5 on out are a little better....

5. Dallas/Ft. Worth
Hub-hub market will be tough (AA)

6. Minneapolis
Possible since its not between hubs of the same airline

7. St. Louis
8. Cleveland
9. Kansas City
10. Cincinnatti
Too east for DL to dump capacity since its a hub-hub market
11. Indianapolis
12. San Antonio
13. Norfolk
14. Columbus
15. Milwaukee



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3645 times:

Philadelphia could likley be served from Wimington (DE) at New Castle County Airport which would give it access to the Philadelphia market, a virtual monopoly in Delaware and another airport to serve north Maryland from.

Minneapolis and Milwaukee are served by reasonbly price direct New York City service from Sun County Air and Midwest Express, respectivley.

Access to Detroit and Kansas City markets could be had by serving the smaller, nearby, cities of Flint (MI) and Topeka (KS), respectivley. Like at Wilmington, jetBlue would have a monopoly on the market direct flights to New York City at both places


User currently offlineR311music From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

How about BDL? It seems like it could support Jetblue. Boston is about 2-3 hours away from most people in western Mass and CT. NYC is another 3 hours or so.


confusing use of time
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

I used September dates (8th to 14th) to avoid the affects of summer fare hikes on the fare shown in the chart.

Metro Area NYC direct flight situation

1. Chicago direct service to NYC by 5 carriers for $200 or less
2. Philadelphia direct service to NYC by 4 carriers for as low as $173
3. Detroit direct service to NYC by 4 carriers for as low as $253
4. Atlanta direct service to NYC by 3 carriers for as low as $243
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth direct service to NYC by 3 carriers for as low as $301
6. Minneapolis direct service to NYC by 4 carriers for as low as $251
7. St. Louis direct service to NYC by 2 carriers for as low as $399
8. Cleveland direct service to NYC by 3 carriers for as low as $188
9. Kansas City direct service to NYC by 2 carriers for as low as $213
10. Cincinnati direct service to NYC by 2 carriers for as low as $324
11. Indianapolis direct service to NYC by 4 carriers for as low as $219
12. San Antonio direct service to NYC (only EWR) by 1 carrier (CO) for $334
13. Norfolk direct service to NYC by 4 carriers for as low as $220
14. Columbus direct service to NYC by 5 carriers for as low as $264
15. Milwaukee direct service to NYC by 2 carrers for $220 or less

Should jetBlue face the competition, serve nearby cities, or avoid these markets all together? Philadelphia can be served from Wilmington and Atlantic City, both from JFK, to serve most of the Southern NJ, northern MD, Delaware, and Philadelphia markets. Any thoughts on Philadelphia or the other cities?


User currently offlineDa man From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 887 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

I think you missed one.
Houston, Texas is listed as #7 by MSA, so it should be inbetween Detroit and Atlanta.



War Eagle!
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting Da man (Reply 5):
Houston, Texas is listed as #7 by MSA, so it should be inbetween Detroit and Atlanta.

We are talking about cities not served by B6. B6 announced HOU service already.

B6jfk airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

jetBlue has alredy announced service to Houston, which is why it wasnt included. Some cities on that list would probably not make too much sense, due to close proximity to current jetBlue cities (like Norfolk to Richmond).

As for Hartford, most of the people within Hartford's range are within the range of NYC or Boston. There may be some unserved costomers in southern NH, western and central MA, and southern NH. These costomers could benefit more from a central or western MA airport, perhaps in Worcester, MA or Springfield, MA. I think Springfield's only airport is shared with Hartford, so Worcester might work best. On a previous post, it was mentioned the over one plane full of jetBlue's JFK-BOS costomers travel to a final destination that is closer to Worcester than to Boston. It seems Worcester, MA would benefit costomers more than Hartford, while still being close enough to Hartford and Northern CT to benefit their flyers.


User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

These might be some good cities for jetBlue to serve.

Wilmington, DE- ILG -city population- 72,000- metro population 5.8 million
Considered part of the fourth largest metro area in America, New Castle Airport is 23 miles from PHL and 66 miles from BWI. The only other service out of this airport is by Delta to Atlanta.

Flint, MI- FNT -city population- 98,000- metro population 5.4 million
Considered to be a part of the Detroit metro area, Flint is 47 miles from downtown Lansing, 59 miles from downtown Detroit, and 61 mile from downtown Windsor, MI. Flint serves a large number of people while avoiding DFW and competing direct service to the St. Louis, Los Angeles, and New York City areas

Topeka, KS- FOE -city population- 122,000- metro population 226,000
51 miles from the MCI which already offers reasonably prices direct flights to the St. Louis, Los Angeles, and New York City areas, Topeka effectively serves the 1.9 million people of the Kansas City metro area from an airport that is only occupied by Allegiant Air.

Omaha, NE- OMA -city population- 390,000- metro population 813,000
While a direct flight to EWR and Omaha, there are no direct flights from this airport to the Los Angeles Area.

Any thoughts?

[Edited 2006-07-11 05:04:42]

User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 8):
Omaha, NE- OMA -city population- 390,000- metro population 813,000
While a direct flight to EWR in September is $295, there are no direct flights from this airport to the St. Louis or Los Angeles Area.

WN has flights to STL.


User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3225 times:

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 9):
WN has flights to STL.

Yes, I agree that the competition could be unnecesary. I just mentioned flights to that city because it is rumored to be jetBlue's midwestern focus city.


User currently offlineKaputt From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 7):
Some cities on that list would probably not make too much sense, due to close proximity to current jetBlue cities (like Norfolk to Richmond).

Norfolk and Richmond serve completly different markets. I know very few people who will drive two hours(often longer due to tunnel traffic) to Richmond to catch a flight. AirTran serves both Newport News(essentially Norfolk) and Richmond.



Carpe the Diem...Seize The Carp
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 8):
and 61 mile from downtown Windsor, MI.

Do you mean downtown Windsor, ON?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Do you mean downtown Windsor, ON?

I am sure that is what was meant.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 4):
Kansas City direct service to NYC by 2 carriers

There is no service between MCI and JFK. It would be like a brand new market. There must be a million people who would greatly prefer JFK over EWR and LGA.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 8):
Flint serves a large number of people while avoiding DFW

That's a stretch!
 Big grin  Big grin


User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Do you mean downtown Windsor, ON?

Yes, my mistake. thanks for catching it.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 14):
There is no service between MCI and JFK. It would be like a brand new market. There must be a million people who would greatly prefer JFK over EWR and LGA.

I don't know if most New Yorkers feel as I do, but I often consider LGA and EWR serve the New York Market. I find the most New Yorkers prefer LGA and most New Jersians prefer EWR. JFK is probably the preferred airport for a few hundred thousand people and will open a new market for some Long Islanders. However, many Long Islanders will go to MCI via Southwest from ISP, even with the stop in BWI or MDW. How many people will not fly out of LGA, EWR, or ISP, but will fly from JFK?


User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Well for DTW wouldn't it make sense for TOL? I mean you couldn't beat that and you have an even better monopoly on that route.

Quoting AAFlyer2006:
I don't know if most New Yorkers feel as I do, but I often consider LGA and EWR serve the New York Market. I find the most New Yorkers prefer LGA and most New Jersians prefer EWR. JFK is probably the preferred airport for a few hundred thousand people and will open a new market for some Long Islanders. However, many Long Islanders will go to MCI via Southwest from ISP, even with the stop in BWI or MDW. How many people will not fly out of LGA, EWR, or ISP, but will fly from JFK?

You'd be surprised if the price is right. We all know its easier to connect to with mass transit than LGA and closer to main New York than ISP which is a good hour outside the city. Some LIers would go the desperate WN to BWI and out way but a lot of the ones I know wouldn't mind going to JFK if it means non-stop direct. The only problems is the business class product that YX offers on this market, could deter B6 from it.



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineMalexander131 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Being from Philadelphia, I personally don't understand why anyone would fly to New York City from here. It's so much more of a hassel, usually more expensive, and there are way easier (and cheaper) methods of making the trip, be it by car, the chinatown busses, Amtrak or SEPTA/NJ Transit. Even for flights out of LGA, JFK, or EWR.

If B6 were to serve Philadelphia, It'd be from someplace that's NOT JFK, LGA, or EWR. ACY on the other hand could be considered fair game.



"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Quoting Malexander131 (Reply 18):
personally don't understand why anyone would fly to New York City from here.

It's surprising. With a two hour drive for New York City to Philadelphia, it would be faster to drive or take a train, but people have already shown they are willing to take short haul flights like JFK to BOS, JFK to SYR, LGB to LAS (although all longer).

However, servicing Philadelphia would mainly be a way to feed metro Philadelphia's 5.8 million people into the system, so they can access the roughly 40 jetBlue cities. Such a route might also be popular with business travellers.

The question is where Philadelphia can be served from without facing fierce competition. Atlantic City, NJ and Wilmington, DE would work well? Does anyone know much about Philadelphia Northeastern Airport?


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting LGAtoIND (Thread starter):
1. Chicago
2. Philiadelphia
3. Detroit
4. Atlanta
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth

Don't know where you got your numbers, but Dallas/Ft. Worth is bigger than Atlanta and just recently surpassed Detroit.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineMikester540 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 19):



Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 19):
Being from Philadelphia, I personally don't understand why anyone would fly to New York City from here. It's so much more of a hassel, usually more expensive, and there are way easier (and cheaper) methods of making the trip, be it by car, the chinatown busses, Amtrak or SEPTA/NJ Transit. Even for flights out of LGA, JFK, or EWR.

It's a terrible drive-- I fly from Tweed-New Haven to Philly and it's so much easier! Tweed has only one airline and a Dash-8. There is no security line; ever.

It's perfect. Walk on, walk off grab your luggage.



We need men who can dream of things that never were. -John F. Kennedy
User currently offlineMalexander131 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 19):
Does anyone know much about Philadelphia Northeastern Airport?

PNE used to have TWA Express service back in the 90's, but that ended I think even before the AA merger.

What about ABE? Only problem is that ABE is a good distance away from the majority of the Philly metro area. Same with ACY.

Also though, flights like JFK-BOS, LGB-LAS, or JFK-SYR aren't nearly as short as PHL-JFK/EWR/LGA are. They measure in at about 129 miles, 289 miles, and 200 miles, with PHL-NYC coming in at about 89.

[Edited 2006-07-12 18:14:55]


"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 17):
Well for DTW wouldn't it make sense for TOL? I mean you couldn't beat that and you have an even better monopoly on that route.

TOL airport is on the West end of the city and actually some people who live on the East end of Toledo can be to DTW quicker!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Quoting Mikester540 (Reply 21):
I fly from Tweed-New Haven to Philly and it's so much easier! Tweed has only one airline and a Dash-8. There is no security line; ever.

It's perfect. Walk on, walk off grab your luggage.

In an interview at Yale, Mr. Neeleman said jetBlue wouldn't fly to New Haven, he said something about the market and airport being to small. He did say Hartford, CT might be an option for jetBlue, eventually. I doubt it though. Most people that use Hartford are within the range of JFK or BOS. Serving western Massachusetts might bring more people within range of an airport served by jetBlue. Maybe ORH in central-westerrn Massachusetts, I saw on another post that over a plane full of the JFK to BOS market goes to a final destination that is closer ORH than BOS.

However, this still leaves the problem of serving Philadelphia. ACY is to far for the city. Trenton is to close to JFK and EWR. ILG and PNE seem to work.


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