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Weird Traffic Pattern In Tampa Today  
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Greetings all,

I work near the airport in Tampa, and today I noticed a very unusual departure/arrival configuration around 3pm. The departures were taking off to the south, on 18R, and almost immediately making a sharp right turn to the west. I've actually seen this before, during events at MacDill AFB, or to avoid t-storms south of the airport. However, the arrivals were using 36R, landing to the north. Anyone else see this? We had t-storms around us, but how would that explain taking off to the south on one r/w, and landing north on the parallel??

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

How long did it last? Perhaps ATC was switching the runways around that time.

Quoting RP TPA (Thread starter):
The departures were taking off to the south, on 18R, and almost immediately making a sharp right turn to the west.

The right turn is the standard noise-abatement procedure for jet departures on 18R.


User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting Phatfarmlines (Reply 1):
How long did it last? Perhaps ATC was switching the runways around that time.

According to the PIE page on passur, it was going for quite a while, doesn't look like it was just switching. From 1500-1600 it kept going, and I saw at least 10 each of departures and arrivals during that time. Looks like they switched to normal use of the 36's around 1600. (Set date to 07 July and time to 1500 and speed to 10x, and watch the yellow airplanes, it's pretty cool to watch actually.)

BTW the right turn that's showing up during that hour is definitely not normal, at least for the 11 years I lived off Westshore and every time I've been back since -- I've always seen them turn to 200 as soon as they're up and hold that heading until south of the Gandy (the southernmost bridge) before turning right. The tracks for today show them turning to about 260 before crossing the Frankland (the middle bridge).

Thanks for posting that RP, that's really interesting, I'm definitely curious to see what the answer is!


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2398 times:
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With thunderstorms all around the compass, I've see that type of thing at TPA many times----and then some.

Some of the best action I ever saw at an airport were those stormy afternoons at TPA. I used to enjoy dining in the (originally Host Hotel) Mariott Hotel's revolving dining room and watching all kinds of wild manuevering as flights made arrivals and departures.

Was in the restaurant one early evening with storms out on the northern edge of the field. My table had revolved around to the north and I was looking right between the runways facing north-----when a DL "stretched-8" that had taken off from 36R made a hard left bank immediately after becomming airborne and filled the large plate glass window in front of me as it blazed past --- stood up on its left wingtip! I remember looking right into the faces of the (equally) surprised pax as they nearly joined me at my table!

Many fond memories of action like that during my years in TPA.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Would like to have seen that, but alas, I was at work.  Sad


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Thinking about it some more, probably there were bad thunderstorms just north of the airport that kept them from taking off to the north or landing to the south.

ImperialEagle, and others, ever remember seeing the big boys on 9/27? I have vivid memories of seeing it exactly once, a stormy afternoon in the 81-82 school year. From my school bus on 275, I saw an Air Canada DC8-61/63 on final for 27, and then a couple more mainline aircraft behind him. No one around me could figure out why I was so surprised -- "duh, it's an airplane, there's an airport nearby."


User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

Thanks for pointing out Passur, 3201. I have never seen an opposite-directional runway configuration at TPA. I'm willing to bet there some very severe storms north of TPA to warrant this configuration. The hard right turns the planes were most likely in progress to avoid conflicts with planes arriving on 36R. The planes on 36R look like they came in high and way under south of MacDill.

User currently offlineIahflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2234 times:

Quoting Phatfarmlines (Reply 6):
The hard right turns the planes were most likely in progress to avoid conflicts with planes arriving on 36R. The planes on 36R look like they came in high and way under south of MacDill.

As posted earlier that turn off 18R is for noise, nothing but might have appeared to be for the 36R arrivals. At IAH we land 26R/L at times and depart 9 with east and southest departures with the 9 departures turing to a 140 heading at 500' AGL.

As for MaDill, the approach to 36R stays at 2,600' until you are just past or directly over MacDill, not a very steep descent but it is 3.5 degrees about .5 a degree above normal.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2189 times:

I have seen the opposing takeoffs and landings thing before. A pilot friend of mine told me the winds had to be right and it was primarily to avoid T-Storms. I have also taken off many times on 18R headed north and banked steeply upon take-off to head up the coast. Some turns have been just past the Gandy while others were between The Gandy and Howard Frankland.

User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 7):

As posted earlier that turn off 18R is for noise, nothing but might have appeared to be for the 36R arrivals.

This was definitely not the normal turn for noise. To see the difference, on passur compare the time in question with 10am on July 1st, which shows the default takeoff clearance (as published in the TPA3 DP), which is to fly 200 heading off 18R, and then turn right or left per vectors from ATC, which usually occurs right near the Gandy. For the day in question, from the radar records, their takeoff clearance had to be to fly 260 heading.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 8):
Some turns have been just past the Gandy while others were between The Gandy and Howard Frankland.

Often starting a bit before the Gandy, yes, but nothing like what they were doing during the time in question (1500 on July 7).


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2135 times:
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Quoting 3201 (Reply 5):
remember seeing the big boys on 9/27?

Every now and then, usually in the winter there would be a strong wind out of the west. It was lots of fun to watch the "big boys" jockey in and out on 27. I used to park just east of that FBO in an old parking lot (remnant of the old terminal) and it was a perfect place to observe the action.

I saw many a DL/EA L10's and NW/NA DC-10's blast off right over the Tex-Mex Cantina! Very kool!

In the early 90's I was on a DL 762 on blustery winter morning and thought our final approach a bit too far to the west as we approached headed south-----we executed a beautiful down-wind, left turn, dog-leg and dropped like a rock onto 9. I'm sure the auto brake was dialed up a bit for that one and we just did come to a stop at the end of the runway.
I don't think anyone else on board but the cockpit crew thought anything of it, but I thought it was awesome!

I can remember doing that a few times back in the 70's on AF's L-188's, but remember us approaching from the south.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Old time TPAers on here? I love it!!!!! Feel free to e-mail me with your TPA memories.  Smile

Quoting 3201 (Reply 5):
ImperialEagle, and others, ever remember seeing the big boys on 9/27?

I've seen this a few times over the past few years. Most recently when Katrina was passing through southern Florida. Gave us some strong steady easterly winds. Everbody landing on 9, with a few takeoffs on 9 also.
Actually, even about 2 months ago, for about an hour, there were takeoffs on 27.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

I came in from EYW on 27. Nice shot of RJ Stadium and the Yankee training facility just below. COX routed that way often.

User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2054 times:
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Quoting 3201 (Reply 5):
remember seeing the big boys on 9/27?

Every now and then, usually in the winter there would be a strong wind out of the west. It was lots of fun to watch the "big boys" jockey in and out on 27. I used to park just east of that FBO in an old parking lot (remnant of the old terminal) and it was a perfect place to observe the action.

I saw many a DL/EA L10's and NW/NA DC-10's blast off right over the Tex-Mex Cantina! Very kool!

In the early 90's I was on a DL 762 on blustery winter morning and thought our final approach a bit too far to the west as we approached headed south-----we executed a beautiful down-wind, left turn, dog-leg and dropped like a rock onto 9. I'm sure the auto brake was dialed up a bit for that one and we just did come to a stop at the end of the runway.
I don't think anyone else on board but the cockpit crew thought anything of it, but I thought it was awesome!

I can remember doing that a few times back in the 70's on AF's L-188's, but remember us approaching from the south.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

I saw them doing this exact thing last Tuesday. They were taking off on 18R and landing in the opposite direction. I thought it was very strange indeed.
As far as 9/27 goes I have also seen a DL L-1011 land from the East (over the stadium) and I have landed this way as well in a WN 737. I felt very honored to say the least!!!!  Smile

SWA TPA



I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

I'm lucky to have a great view of the TPA approaches and departures. I work right near the Westshore mall, so I get to see the southerly departures and northerly arrivals. I rarely notice them using 9/27. Last time I can recall was back in 1993 (?) after the "no-name storm" came through. The wind was GUSTING all day from the west, probably 30+MPH, so the 18s/36s were out of the question. Everything was taking off on 27, which is a 7000' runway. Not a problem for turboprops and 737s, but the big guys must have had a fun time there. Don't forget, back then it wasn't unusual to see large guage aircraft (Delta 1011's, Air Canada 747's, etc).

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