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GOL To Start CCS And BOG!  
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Hey guys,

Yesterday a good friend of mine talked to a very reliable source and ran into this good new, that GOL Linhas Aereas will start services to CCS and BOG this coming October, and I must say I got shocked!

I know GOL is expanding their international network by adding two more frequencies to Buenos Aires, but I never thought them coming up here to CCS! But now that Varig is going off business it makes sense to me, even though I thought TAM was the primary candidate to fly here...

So, if that's true, is the 738 capable of flying from GRU to CCS and BOG? That's a 6+ hour flight, so I'm not so sure (perhaps with a stop at Manaus).

Well guys, I looked everywhere for this new and couldn't find it... Any helpfull info will be gladly taken! (I'll keep looking anyways).

Cheers!

[Edited 2006-07-09 17:02:54]


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Well, the GRU-BOG route can´t be flown by a 738 unless it stops in MAO, maybe CCS can be non-stop. BOG will do well non-stop if they fly a -700.
But, the only airline who has applied for the route with the Brazilian authorities is OceanAir....

Would be nice to see GOL here in BOG and in CCS but a 6+ hour flight is not particularly part of an LCC business model, and remember BOG has the highest landing fees in Latin America.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

Maybe they can operate it as a GRU-CCS-BOG-CCS-GRU
Since RG has stopped flying the route, the brasilian authorities can allocate 7 weekly frequencies to its airlines, so it could spread them between GOL and OceanAir.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8872 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

they will probably fly to BOG via MAO, or possibly BSB... or both!! as they are known for doing it.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
and remember BOG has the highest landing fees in Latin America.

Maybe it would be wiser to fly the -800 then. More seats to spread out the taxes cost.

Q: Are landing fees always based on the weight of the aircraft?

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Gol has amazing plans, they probably will start very soon 3 routes to SCL, EZE could receive a new improvement very soon and probably during the next 12 months we will see Gol flying on the biggest south American airports.

Concerning to BOG and CCS, as they nowadays flies GRU-MAO, GIG-BSB-MAO, GIG-SSA-REC-FOR-BEL-MAO, probably one of the routes will start on GRU and the other at GIG, both with stop at MAO. First, of course, they need the frequencies from ANAC.

Gol will receive this year around 20 aircrafts (including 15 brand new 737-800WL), for sure one of the highest fleet improvements in the world for the next 5 months.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24311 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

Out of curiosity, how are the bilateral traffic right situation with Brazil?

I assume Brazilian carriers must have unusued frequencies to places like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Venezuela which GOL is able to use and launch services so quickly. After all even with Varig having its problems it still would maintain traffic rights until it shuts down or officially abandons routes, or are there special exemptions being provided for GOL? What happens if Varig comes back from the dead in the next few months and wants to resume all of its reduced markets?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
Would be nice to see GOL here in BOG and in CCS but a 6+ hour flight is not particularly part of an LCC business

Very true.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 2):
Maybe they can operate it as a GRU-CCS-BOG-CCS-GRU

Think about it, not ony would they have to charge much cheaper fares than Avianca's to remain competitive, but they would also have to put up with the lack of fifth freedom rights between Caracas and Bogota. I believe that the current bilateral treaty between Colombia and Brasil only allows Brasilian carriers to exercise fifth freedom rights within South American from Peru and Ecuador to Colombia, Venezuela not included.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
I assume Brazilian carriers must have unusued frequencies to places like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Venezuela which GOL is able to use and launch services so quickly.

At least with Colombia they won't have much problem. The Brasil-Colombia air-treaty allows several carriers to operate up to 7 weekly frequencies on the market simultaneously. I don't know what the case with other countries is.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4221 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
I assume Brazilian carriers must have unusued frequencies to places like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Venezuela which GOL is able to use and launch services so quickly. After all even with Varig having its problems it still would maintain traffic rights until it shuts down or officially abandons routes, or are there special exemptions being provided for GOL? What happens if Varig comes back from the dead in the next few months and wants to resume all of its reduced markets?

Lets see:

Last update: 27 April
Ordered in Portuguese (so in English it appears out of order)
PAX (could carry cargo) CARGO (exclusive for cargo) (weekly frequencies)

Argentina - (Not in number of frequencies, authorizations are in number of seats per year, hard to say about availability)
Barbados - 7 Pax
Bolivia - 8 Pax 2 Cargo (Bra keep authorization for 3 weekly flights, Varig for 7 and Gol for 9)
Chile - 21 Pax 2 Cargo (Gol can run 21 weekly flights, Varig 14 and Tam 7)
Colombia - 0 (Varig can run 7 weekly flights)
Costa Rica - 2 pax
Cuba - 2 pax
Ecuador - 16 pax
Guiana - 5 pax
Mexico - 0
Panama - 14 pax
Paraguay - 16 pax
Peru - 29 pax
Dom. Republic - 1 pax
Suriname - 0
Uruguay - 36 pax
Venezuela - 8 pax (7 need to be regional)

Important to note that CERNAI usually authorizes regional flights (like MAO-CCS, MAO-BOG, POA-MVD, POA-EZE, CGB-VVI, CGB-LIM), even if starts at GRU or GIG if they keep a stop at a frontier city.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2520 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 6):
they would also have to put up with the lack of fifth freedom rights between Caracas and Bogota.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Venezuela - 8 pax (7 need to be regional)

Too many complications for a joint CCS/BOG flight. So separete they shall be.


User currently offlineVenezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1418 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

RG has flown the 737-800 I believe to CCS, they have upgraded their service all the way to a 777 at one point but i guess RG is no longer a visitor to CCS


ROLL TIDE!!!
User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4100 times:

I was expecting this whether from TAM or GOL.
Avianca has been doing quite good lately in flights to Brazil (all the GIG soap opera notwithstanding) and since Varig quit, that void was to be filled by another Brazilian soon given the aforementioned results of the current Brazil - Colombia market.



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4062 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 6):
At least with Colombia they won't have much problem. The Brasil-Colombia air-treaty allows several carriers to operate up to 7 weekly frequencies on the market simultaneously. I don't know what the case with other countries is.



Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 9):
RG has flown the 737-800 I believe to CCS, they have upgraded their service all the way to a 777 at one point but i guess RG is no longer a visitor to CCS

If they fly from MAO, which IMO will be the routing (XXX-MAO-CCS and XXX-MAO-BOG), Gol will obtain the frequencies easily as per nowadays Brazilian government policy.

Varig is still running CCS (GIG-GRU-MAO-CCS), with a 734, 6 times per week.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Concerning to BOG and CCS, as they nowadays flies GRU-MAO, GIG-BSB-MAO, GIG-SSA-REC-FOR-BEL-MAO, probably one of the routes will start on GRU and the other at GIG, both with stop at MAO. First, of course, they need the frequencies from ANAC.

My guess for the BOG route would be a 738W, 4x weekly GRU-MAO-BOG for a start and some time after, they could add the remaining three weekly freqs. but stopping in another city. (BSB or Belo Horizonte i dont know). Tought i still think that is a looong sector for an LCC.

Giving it more thought, competing with AV would be harsh, as they would have the non-stop, the biz class (Colombia-Brasil is majorly business oriented) and feed on both ends, the only advantage GOL could have would be the price, but this could be matched by AV also.

[Edited 2006-07-10 04:29:16]

User currently offlineAirportmanager From Ecuador, joined Mar 2001, 558 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4013 times:

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 6):
Think about it, not ony would they have to charge much cheaper fares than Avianca's to remain competitive, but they would also have to put up with the lack of fifth freedom rights between Caracas and Bogota. I believe that the current bilateral treaty between Colombia and Brasil only allows Brasilian carriers to exercise fifth freedom rights within South American from Peru and Ecuador to Colombia, Venezuela not included.

In ecuador, Icaro is considering alliance with GOL for brasil flights, keep you psoted as I get more inoformation!


User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
So, if that's true, is the 738 capable of flying from GRU to CCS and BOG? That's a 6+ hour flight, so I'm not so sure (perhaps with a stop at Manaus).

They will surely stop in MAO, BSB or BEL. Following their tendency to stop in smaller citier before continua the international flights, just like GRU/CWB/COR.

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
RG has flown the 737-800 I believe to CCS, they have upgraded their service all the way to a 777 at one point but i guess RG is no longer a visitor to CCS

The 738 flown by RG to CCS had winglets, making the range bigger!



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlinePoh2 From Venezuela, joined Oct 2003, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Yes, RG did in fact operate a B737-800 on CCS-GRU as I flew on it in 2004 when I went to Brasil for Carnaval.  Smile


"Life is too short to take everything seriously."
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Good news I hope this will materialize soon. Hopefully fares to GRU and EZE will come down so we can actually travel to our new "MERCOSUR Brothers" without bleeding our wallets to death.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):

Varig is still running CCS (GIG-GRU-MAO-CCS), with a 734, 6 times per week.

I thought they were sending the 757 nonstop from GRU... when did the downgrade happen?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3949 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):

Varig is still running CCS (GIG-GRU-MAO-CCS), with a 734, 6 times per week.



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 16):

I thought they were sending the 757 nonstop from GRU... when did the downgrade happen?

They are still operating 6 weekly CCS-GRU-GIG with a 757, not a 737.

Good to hear that there are enough airlines to substitute the RG services...but: what is happening from Venezuelan side ? Aeropostal, Conviasa, Avior ? Due to the fleet structure I am aware that none of them is able to operate GIG or GRU, but they could at least do a CCS-MAO or/and a CCS-Boa Vista.


User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

[quote=PPVRA,reply=3]they will probably fly to BOG via MAO, or possibly BSB... or both!! as they are known for doing it.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
and remember BOG has the highest landing fees in Latin America.

Maybe it would be wiser to fly the -800 then. More seats to spread out the taxes cost.

While the 800 can do the job, if moderately loaded,a 700 is preferred because of the high altitude airport. (BOG-8600ft.) I did fly RG once in 12/03 from BOG-MAO, but as I remember it, it was moderately loaded. ALso, it did not have winglets as this was pre-winglet era. CO uses their 700's to BOG for the alt. reasons mostly. We do however use the 800 to CCS.

Cheers,
amazonphil



If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3861 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 17):
They are still operating 6 weekly CCS-GRU-GIG with a 757, not a 737.

How ? All the 4 RG 757 are grounded at GIG due to ILFC request. Look to Amadeus only on the next days (and you will see the 734), RG is changing their schedule on a daily basis. And due to this they included a stop at MAO.

Varig
RG 8942 Rio De Janeiro Int'l (GIG), Rio De Janeiro, Rio De Janeiro, Brazil
Terminal 2 12:10
Simon Bolivar (CCS), Caracas, Venezuela 20:35
2 stop(s)
734 9h25min Tuesday
Wednesday
Friday
Sunday
(stops at GRU and MAO)

Varig
RG 8946 Rio De Janeiro Int'l (GIG), Rio De Janeiro, Rio De Janeiro, Brazil
Terminal 2 09:00
Simon Bolivar (CCS), Caracas, Venezuela 17:25
2 stop(s)
734 9h25min Monday
Thursday
(stops at GRU/MAO - Final destination for RG8946 is AUA)

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 16):
I thought they were sending the 757 nonstop from GRU... when did the downgrade happen?

About 10 days ago Luis, ILFC and other lessors requested Varig to ground 2 772 (VRA and VRC), 2 738 (VSA and VSB), 2 73G (SAF and SAG), the entire 752 fleet (4 frames) and also some MD-11 (5 frames). Also PP-VRI (772) was grounded last week as per Bristol request. All the planes are grounded at GIG.

Quoting Airportmanager (Reply 13):
In ecuador, Icaro is considering alliance with GOL for brasil flights, keep you psoted as I get more inoformation!

Good news! Seems that we will see Gol with one of the biggest South American network!

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 18):
Maybe it would be wiser to fly the -800 then. More seats to spread out the taxes cost.

And Gol will receive a lot of -800 with winglets brand new for Boeing. As their routes are multi-stop, probably MAO-BOG and/or MAO-CCS will receive the 737-800WL as on their domestic network a few number of flights are over 2 hours.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2537 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 17):

They are still operating 6 weekly CCS-GRU-GIG with a 757, not a 737.

Hola Chiguire!, como estas? I just checked amadeus.net and on july 12nd, the flight goes CCS-MAO-GRU with 734.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 17):
, but they could at least do a CCS-MAO or/and a CCS-Boa Vista

I think the best shot we got are charter flights from either Manaus or Boa Vista to Margarita Island.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
How ? All the 4 RG 757 are grounded at GIG due to ILFC request.

Sorry, it was Sabre data. And they still show a 757 CCS-GRU-GIG - open end.


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Great come-backs guys, thanks a lot...

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1):
but a 6+ hour flight is not particularly part of an LCC business model

Yeah, just what I thought... GOL is characterized for being a LCC, and this flight is a pretty long one that might require food service and all the necessary requirements... How would this work?

And, if Varig is really going off-business, when is it going to happen? Two airlines flying GRU-CCS-GRU wouldn't be profitbale, would it?

Ok guys, thanks!

Cheers.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3689 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 797 (Reply 22):
Yeah, just what I thought... GOL is characterized for being a LCC, and this flight is a pretty long one that might require food service and all the necessary requirements... How would this work?

That's one more reason why i believe they will run flights thru MAO.

Quoting 797 (Reply 22):
And, if Varig is really going off-business, when is it going to happen? Two airlines flying GRU-CCS-GRU wouldn't be profitbale, would it?

Varig nowadays is not a competitor for Gol as they cannot provide confidence for people that they will fly. If Gol become a player on CCS route, even from BSB, GIG or GRU (thru MAO always) all future booking will be made on Gol aircrafts.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 21):
Sorry, it was Sabre data. And they still show a 757 CCS-GRU-GIG - open end.

No problem, i'm always at your disposal Chiguire, for any doubt and/or a good discussion. You're a valuable A.Net user.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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