Usnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 54 Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18473 times:
According to an article by CNN, a copilot on a Southwest Airlines flight to Arizona was arrested after authorities believed he was drunk and trying to operate the aircraft...
Flightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 346 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18424 times:
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5623 posts, RR: 54 Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18407 times:
Geez! Some pilots just don't get it do they?
Would they fly the plane drunk if their own family was on board? It's the same thing!
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Rsbj From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18407 times:
You guys are 100% right with 10% of the facts. He blew a 0.00%. Don't have time to post the proof, look it up yourself.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8556 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18375 times:
Flightopsguy,
I couldnt have said it better. LOL. Some people need a smack on the butt or a pair of hand cuffs, and they will learn. Welcome to my RU list. My friend who is a Captain for AA never drinks due to this and being a christain.
Usnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 54 Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18375 times:
Quoting Rsbj (Reply 3): You guys are 100% right with 10% of the facts. He blew a 0.00%. Don't have time to post the proof, look it up yourself.
So, do I take your esteemed opinion with such a pleasantly crafted response, or do I listen, for now, to what the FBI has told CNN?
I think I'll choose the latter. And for your information, if he had alcohol on his breath, then chances are he didn't blow a 0.00%. Nice try though.
MyOthrCarsA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18252 times:
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 5): So, do I take your esteemed opinion with such a pleasantly crafted response, or do I listen, for now, to what the FBI has told CNN?
What exactly did the FBI say? The CNN article linked said that the TSA followed the pilot after smelling alcohol on him, not necessarily on his breath. Hell, if I opened a bottle of whiskey the night before, had a drink or two, and spilled half the bottle on myself, I might smell of alcohol too, even though I'm not necessarily drunk the next day.
Granted, it certainly looks suspicious, and probably warrants a breathalyzer test if a commercial pilot smells of alcohol somewhere on his or her person. But if there are media reports of the pilot smelling strongly of alcohol on his breath, or blowing over on a breathalyzer, I'd be interested in seeing them.
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18252 times:
Quoting Broocy (Reply 6): If it's a first time offense, would WN look to counselling etc to help the pilot, if he or she did have alcohol in their system?
It's my understanding that it is a zero tolerance offence and that instant termination would follow if a test found that he indeed had alcohol. IMO, this doesn't really need to be in the spotlight of the media outside of the fact that Southwest has always been projected as a careless airline looking for the quick buck. I know for a fact that Southwest currently employs some of the best pilots in the industry. Like any other airline there will be the few who do not fit the job but no amount of preparedness can prevent that. I would think that again due to the zero tolerance and the poor media spotlight that this pilot will more than likely be terminated from WN or asked to step down. However, the idea that they will be flying Cessna's around Alaska for the rest of the career is highly unlikely.
Let the facts come in before making assumptions. And the idea that he had alcohol in his system is a fact but not factual to the actual offence.
Usnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 54 Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18220 times:
Quote: Carl Fulton, 41, of Fort Worth, Texas, faces federal charges of operating a plane under the influence of alcohol, said Special Agent Pat Kiernan, an FBI spokesman in Salt Lake City.
So, the FBI is the one who gave the initial information out. Then they did this...
Quote: FBI agents and officials from the Federal Aviation Administration joined the questioning, and Fulton was given two breath tests before his arrest, Kiernan said.
They gave him two breath tests before his arrest. If it were something as simple as the smell of alcohol on his jacket from the night before, then it probably wouldn't have ended the way it did.
This all came from the FBI spokesman. Next time read the article.
MyOthrCarsA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18163 times:
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 13): They gave him two breath tests before his arrest. If it were something as simple as the smell of alcohol on his jacket from the night before, then it probably wouldn't have ended the way it did.
This all came from the FBI spokesman. Next time read the article.
I read the article - if he blew over on his breathalyzer, why wouldn't the FBI have said as much? You'd think that sort of thing would be newsworthy.
I don't know exactly how impaired laws work with respect to aviation, but I know that, here in Texas, you can be arrested (but not necessarily convicted) if found operating a motor vehicle while smelling of alcohol, even if you DON'T blow over on a breath test.
Desh From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 218 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18142 times:
Having just completed my second flight with SWest (the first being this Friday evening from BWI - BUF) I must say it is a GREAT airline !
As far as this bum is concerned , Southwest or for that mattter ANY airline can try their damnest to instill a good work ethic but its near impossible for anyone airline to police their crew at every moment - and thats where good sense has to prevail amongst the crew.
Some comments made on this post make it seem as if SWest is solely responsible for the actions of the pilot. I don't think this bum of a pilot would have acted any different had he been employed by any other airline. I am sure other airlines have had similiar issues with crew before .....
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
MtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2141 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17898 times:
Just stay away from "..west Airlines".. Northwest, America West, etc. They must have all the drinkers.
AAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 832 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17861 times:
what would happen to a pilot who had been drinking ,but notified his airline that he was in know condition to fly? would he be terminated
RamerinianAir From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17782 times:
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2): Would they fly the plane drunk if their own family was on board? It's the same thing!
Well, they are flying themselves.
I think that some people have problems/addictions. Have you ever been an alcoholic? Drinking doesn't leave one in the best state for decision making - it is a drug.
SR
SonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17782 times:
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 5): So, do I take your esteemed opinion with such a pleasantly crafted response, or do I listen, for now, to what the FBI has told CNN?
Well, I, like many others, do not know the full story of this, but I will point to a different situation as my response. Remember that incident with an US pilot in LAX (?), I believe. Everybody here quickly got on that poor pilots ass, when in reality, he was not considered intoxicated (even by FAA standards), and was not terminated. Was everybody wrong then? Yes. Is everybody wrong right now? Maybe.
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4): My friend who is a Captain for AA never drinks due to this and being a christain.
There is nothing wrong with drinking. However, there is something wrong when you drink irresponsibly.
Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 13): They gave him two breath tests before his arrest. If it were something as simple as the smell of alcohol on his jacket from the night before, then it probably wouldn't have ended the way it did.
Again, going back to the US pilot. He passed the test, yet they still took him off the flight.
What I am trying to say is to not judge too quickly.
Quoting AAden (Reply 23): what would happen to a pilot who had been drinking ,but notified his airline that he was in know condition to fly? would he be terminated
No, no, no. That isn't how you are suppose to say it. You don't want to say, "I am too drunk to fly," you want to say, "I am too sick to fly."
Jkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17738 times:
Another article...
"Kiernan says Fulton's blood alcohol level exceeded the federal limit of .04, though the agency declined to give us the precise number..."
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5673 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17598 times:
Although there are some who are saying this shows Southwest is bad, hasn't this happened elsewhere? Unfortunately there are people with this behavior all over.
I thought there was an AA pilot at Manchester in the UK arrested a few months ago for being intoxicated while preparing for his flight.
I remember an incident involving an Aloha pilot 2 years ago at OAK.
I'm sure a search will turn up a similiar incident for nearly every airline.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3869 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17567 times:
Quoting Jkudall (Reply 26): Fulton's blood alcohol level exceeded the federal limit of .04, though the agency declined to give us the precise number..."
He was assigned to be the 1st Officer on a WN flight from SLC-PHX. It is just wonderful when such incidents make your local TV markets 2200 news. He is in the Salt Lake County jail tonight, hope he sleeps well and sobers up! Just over a week ago a Utah Highway Patrol Trooper, Lt. Fred Swain was nailed down in Draper (south metro SLC) when he crashed his unmarked Crown Vic' into a median at 2:00am after a night of bar hopping! He has plead not guilty in 3rd District Superior Court, but has resigned from the UHP in disgrace. Lt Swain now has 1st Officer Fulton to keep him company.
[Edited 2006-07-10 07:40:58]spelling
[Edited 2006-07-10 07:44:09]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
B777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 749 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15663 times:
Why does it seem to happen to WN most often?
On a side note, I think that a pilot being under the influence of alcohol is "a bit better" than other substances such as drugs (illegal or legal) because the former is easier to detect....But anything that impairs one's sound judgement when he/she is in the cockpit is bad regardless of the source. Don't know if my point came across or did I just contradict myself?
IADCRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 332 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15552 times:
A sad and idiotic (on the pilots part) end to what could have been a very promising flying career at WN and overall.
Goingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 19 Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15415 times:
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 28): Why does it seem to happen to WN most often? Confused
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15235 times:
Why do aircrew risk ruining their careers, just for a drink ?, how would he like it, if the pilot of a plane he was on (as a passenger) was drunk ?
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4): My friend who is a Captain for AA never drinks due to this and being a christain.
My god-father was a F/E, he did the same thing, no drinking unless he was on leave.
Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 15143 times:
My, my, my...what a compassionate group of people on A.Net.....
It's amazing how quick people are quick to hang someone before all the facts are in.
25 Hmmmm...: Only vodka is odorless after drinking it. Every other type of booze you will be drinking gives off a strong odor. Obviously this pilot had alcohol in
26 Typhaerion: Slightly off topic for a second... Wikipedia is great for a lot of things, but quoting it as a definitive source is probably not a good idea since I c
27 OPNLguy: Yeah, the only things missing from this mob are torches, pitchforks, and a rope...
28 Typhaerion: The tools of the trade online are a little different: smilies, quotes, and off-topic-but-darning news articles. We got all those here.
29 2H4: How lucky we are, though, to have several forum members who were actually there the entire time, and who apparently witnessed the entire ordeal. Thes
30 B777A340Fan: Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the first time a WN pilot makes the news for high BAC.
31 TheSorcerer: I don't quite understand, what if he was at an airport bar having a glass of mineral water and someone beside him spills a glass of whiskey onto him?
32 Thegooddoctor: I would say the same thing about people who get behind the wheel and do the same thing, but this seems to be far more common place than trying to fly
33 727forever: First, he would be doomed to flying cancelled checks at night under part 135. Second, with electronic checking these days the cancelled bank check jo
34 OPNLguy: Yes, and in both cases, it appears that folks are making conclusions and judgements based on media reports. GIGO.
35 TPAnx: At ATL once, I was asked by a Delta pilot if I'd go into a bar and check the score of an NFL game. Asked him why he couldn't, and he said he was forb
36 Goingboeing: I do believe it IS the first time a Southwest pilot makes the news. I have seen reports for Northwest and America West, but this is a first for South
37 Typhaerion: Awww...c'mon OPNL, lighten up. The media is soooooo good at what they do they are never wrong with their facts or sources, at all, ever. So we all sh
38 LO231: Vodka is not odourless. Found out the painfull way. It smells of spirit. Regards, LO231
39 N702ML: Isn't it odd that TSA seems to notice this stuff? Not the hotel van drivers, not the rest of the flight crew in the van, not the airport ops/gate agen
40 Usnseallt82: Too bad the FBI and FAA officials were doing the breath tests.
41 FlyHoss: No, that's not always the case, just in the cases you're hearing about in the media. I'm aware of cases - at a few different carriers - where they (a
42 Eal46859: In the mid 80s in SF, I was working the out bound SFO-MIA that left at around 10:00 pm. It was an A300. The pilot and co-pilot both came down to the d
43 FrndlySkys777: Actually according to FAR 91.17, the federal limit is 0.04. Some airlines will lower it to 0.02. We also should not forget about "8 hours from bottle
44 DTWAGENT: Question? Why would anyone with all that education, flying time, and the massive amount of money invested into flying for a airline, would do somethin
45 EA CO AS: Wouldn't you assume people are clever enough to deduce that if they actually ARRESTED him after administering the test, that blowing over the legal l
46 Usnseallt82: I think logic left this thread as soon as I started it. How dare you try to reintroduce it.
47 Slider: Nice generalization. If that was an attempt at humor, it was a weak one. But you'd be surprised how many pilots consume more than their share of adul
48 SA006: Dude , did you not read the article/numerous posts from users? It was proven his alchohol level was above the limit... -SA006
49 Srbmod: Some folks drink so heavily that 8 hours is nowhere near enough time to sober up. It's not like the old days when a pilot would take some drags off a
50 Halls120: Possibly. You do know what the slang term for the Breathalyzer is, don't you? "Dial a Deuce," since it can be - let's say - altered by the person ope
51 Skyexramper: So he was arrested and there just happened to be another F/O sitting around that was legal to fly that leg. I can't imagine SWA has a crew base at SLC
52 Boeing747_600: and would that be a 40 proof or an 80 proof Scotch ?!
53 Boeing747_600: I'd be interested in hearing an informed opinion on this too. If its his first offense, then counselling would certainly seem to be an appropriate me
54 DL787932ER: Don't know what WN's policy is, but in the corporate world in general the counseling option is for those who seek help rather than those who get caug
55 Tcfc424: Just because you are arrested does not mean you failed a breathylyzer test. Remember, in the United States you can be arrested for no reason and held
56 BHMBAGLOCK: Why is this odd? Who would a pilot be likely to encounter before going through the TSA checkpoint? In reality, TSA is the first opportunity to catch
57 Hmmmm...: No matter what wrong a pilot does, there are always those here who want to defend them, under the auspices of "Well, we don't have all that facts." Th
58 OPNLguy: Well, guess what? I don't have those facts, and neither do you. Wrong. From the article: ...and jailed him on suspicion of being under the influence
59 Usnseallt82: What about it? Nobody is saying that he definitely did it and should go straight to jail. We're discussing how a pilot who smelled like alcohol shoul
60 FiveMileFinal: I don't think he'd be in any trouble for wanting to wrap himself up in a blanket. It'd be weird, but doesn't the cockpit get pretty cold up there?
61 OPNLguy: ...and he's not the only one in 60 replies...
62 Usnseallt82: I mean, to be perfectly honest....it doesn't look real good for him. But of course, he isn't guilty until proven so. However, if you walk like a duck
63 AsstChiefMark: The unfortunate thing is that if he WASN'T drinking and is NOT guilty, it won't make the news. The American press doesn't like to admit their mistakes
64 KarlB737: Courtesy: WFAA-TV FW Pilot Arrested For Intoxication http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...aa060710_wz_pilotdwi.433a4ef4.html Video Report: http://ww
65 OPNLguy: True, but in this case, nobody personally (for themselves) saw the duck walk or talk, or smelled him, and are instead relying on news accounts. Purel
66 ShyFlyer: IF found guilty, he most likely would face prison time and revocation of his certificates, ending any type of flying other that as passenger. But, th
67 OPNLguy: Yeah, just like that "A390" that crashed in Siberia... Any correct would be on page Z-42, certainly not on page-1 above the fold where the original s
68 Usnseallt82: A far-fetched scenario. Under the assumption of your scenario, then Southwest would probably issue a statement for both their reputation and the pilo
69 Flightopsguy: I would hope that the initial field breath tests were followed up by a blood test, which is much more definitive. The key here is that supposedly the
70 OPNLguy: I never claimed it as what happened--it was purely a theoretical one that resulted in his being cleared, thus leading to my main point... "Sticking u
71 PhilSquares: You made it very clear what your opinion was, he was guilty and that was it. For the "experts" on this forum, I am sure everyone knows a breath test
72 Bond007: Be careful with that advice. Because of the inaccuracies of the breath test, that's exactly why a case can be overturned in court ... with a blood te
73 Usnseallt82: But you don't seem to get it....no one's pressing charges on him without making damn sure that the evidence needed is collected. Its not like he's be
74 OPNLguy: You seem to be confusing "arraignment" with "indictment", "trial", and "verdict." For the last time, he's been accused and that in and of itself is n
75 Goingboeing: I can only hope that if I am ever convicted of a crime...most posters on this board will not be on the jury. You've made up your minds before being pr
76 Molykote: Having been through this discussion before in another thread let me suggest that Usnseallt82 and PhilSquares can save a lot of time by visiting this l
77 Jeremy: Wow, A mechanic(MDW) and a pilot arrested in a weeks time? Not the best publicity!
78 Mikephotos: Formal charges were filed againsts OJ & Michael Jackson too. Just because you're arrested and formal charges are fileld doesn't mean a thing Mike
79 Usnseallt82: Who cares? I wasn't talking about guilt or innocence...I was talking about what he probably blew on the breathalyzer.
80 Mikephotos: My apologies, I took your posting as "We'll know he's guilty (blew above the limit) when they file formal charges". Just wanted to show that formal c
81 Usnseallt82: Yeah, I was going to say earlier that he might be fine once he gets a hold of Johnnie Cochran's firm.
82 Firennice: From today in SLC paper http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640193806,00.html "Fulton was pulled from the cockpit of a Southwest Airlines Flight
83 Halls120: Anyone who takes advice offered on a public message board gets what he pays for. I'll bet you are one of those people who think you can easily fight
84 Lucky42: I really dont understand why anyone would take the chance with drinking and flying or whatever. I like beer in fact I love it...I have been known to p
85 AR385: You need to learn a few facts, Your mouth can smell like a barrel of scotch and the breathlyzer will say o% if you have not been drinking. Why? becau
86 Halls120: Yep. As I mentioned in another thread recently, I was once sideswiped by a drunk who left the scene, went home, claimed he had a couple of stiff ones
87 Usnseallt82: I live in Texas. I know more about drinking than most alcoholics. For future reference, notice that when someone says, "chances are," they are not sa
88 PhilSquares: For all the "experts" A breath test shows Southwest Airlines pilot Carl Fulton, arrested Sunday on suspicion of intoxication, had a blood-alcohol conc
89 Boeing747_600: Not to nitpick but if he tested 0.039 vs. the statuatory limit of 0.04. I would'nt quite call that well below! Moreover, a bloodthirsty prosecutor co
90 PhilSquares: Those are not my words but a quote from the article.
91 Boeing747_600: Assuming that the FBI agent's logic is correct (and universal), one (at least a man who weighed more or less the same as the F/O in question) could d
92 Boeing747_600: Very True. My quibble was in fact, with the atatement in the article. The unfortunate "Quoting Philsquares ..." tag just preceding it didnt help my c
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From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
when such incidents make your local TV markets 2200 news. He is in the Salt Lake County jail tonight, hope he sleeps well and sobers up! 
Just over a week ago a Utah Highway Patrol Trooper, Lt. Fred Swain was nailed down in Draper (south metro SLC) when he crashed his unmarked Crown Vic' into a median at 2:00am after a night of bar hopping! He has plead not guilty in 3rd District Superior Court, but has resigned from the UHP in disgrace. Lt Swain now has 1st Officer Fulton to keep him company. 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
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