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If Refused Entry At Immigration - Rtn Flights?  
User currently offlineBristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22728 times:

So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the aiport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

BF


Fortune favours the brave
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLredlefsen From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22686 times:

If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out. How they recover their expenses is the airline's problem as far as the US govt is concerned. (And that makes sense, if you ask me.)

This is one reason why airlines check your immigration credentials into the US pretty carefully at checkin (even before Sept 11, 2001) -- the airline has an economic incentive not to transport people who will be denied entry, and therefore go home on the airline's nickel.

I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.


User currently offlineAmwest2United From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22629 times:
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Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the airport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

If an Airline allows a customer to fly into a country and the country refusing them entry, the Arline is responsible to carry the said customer out of that country. If the return flight is not for several hours or even a day, the said customer will be detained by the immigration "peeps", then turned back over to the airline. The airline MUST carry the customer on the 1st flight out of the country, period! If the airline has to deny boarding to another customer, they must do that. It is up to the airline to insure everything is in order. If the country of entry denies a customer due to the airlines failure to insure the customer has all the correct paperwork, the airline will get levied a fine.



Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
User currently offlineFOLOV From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22591 times:

I always found it funny that the airline are responsible for the PAX if refused in the US... We get some that are refused because they overstayed 10years ago... or got arrested in past vacation... how are we suppose to know that....

When check in someone to Australia, they have submitted their information with an ETA... if they tried to check in the system will say do not board...
Or to new zealand, as you enter an APS, the system will refused the pax or ask you to contact them....

I think this is great

As per the US, you get sent to secondary and 2 hours a call is made to the airline telling to book them on the next flight.... if they have a return ticket great... if not your lost...

Recently we had a pax who was depoted back to his country...if moved to the US 4 years ago, and flew in with us... We had to pay for his tkt, the escorts plus their hotel...
How fair is this


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22587 times:

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.

That is rarelly an issue as most passangers (except business travellers unlikely to be returned) purchase a round-trip, non-refundable ticket - so they fly you back on your ticket.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22492 times:

Usally Return or Onward ticket is required unless holding a "greencard" (US Perm resident card)

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22481 times:

Quoting FOLOV (Reply 3):
Recently we had a pax who was depoted back to his country...if moved to the US 4 years ago, and flew in with us... We had to pay for his tkt, the escorts plus their hotel...
How fair is this

May not sound fair, but it is the cost of doing business internationally. Airlines know this when they start service to the USA.

Fairness is not equal to logic. Fairness only means that you know the rules going into a situation and you choose to enter the situation knowing those rules and play by them. So an airline knows these are the rules, and thus it is fair to make them play by them, no matter how illogical the rules may be.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22464 times:

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out.

That's any country. I have been working at the gate with flights up to 14 deportees. That's those without correct visas,deportees that have overstayed etc.

The deportees can be locked up until they can fit the passenger on due to loads, but unless there's a specific reciprical agreement on other airlines to carry UPs the airline must uplift at their earliest convenience.


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22433 times:

I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

User currently offlineNZ8800 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 22355 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 8):
I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

As far as I know, yes it is - likely quite a few countries do it. And if you've been careless enough not to check that you comply with the entry requirements to a foreign country - you deserve to have the book thrown at you.
If you get one of those stamps, it can make it difficult to enter any country after that - and you may be formally deported as well. One of THOSE stamps means you need to apply for a visa pretty much anywhere you go after that.

As to the rest - it is per the above. If you check the entry requirements for almost any country, it is the airline's responsibility at the end of the day to ensure each passenger they carry has complied with the entry requirements; and if they haven't they must deny them boarding.

Not only do they have to take the passenger back to the originating airport on the first available flight, they also get fined - often around $5000 per passenger, although this varies from country to country.

When I went to Syria each passenger had their passport details and visas very carefully checked by Austrian staff at Vienna Schwechat, before we were allowed to board the flight to Damascus.

As another example, here is part of the requirements for a visit to Tonga, info supplied courtesy of the ICAO via Virgin Atlantic's website. This is for a New Zealand passport holder - requirements for other nationals may vary.

Passport required (must be valid for at least 3 months upon
arrival).

Visa required, which can be obtained on arrival for touristic
purposes only, free of charge, for a stay of max. 31 days
(extension possible).

Visitor must hold:
- return/onward ticket; and
- all documents required for next destination; and
- sufficient funds to cover stay.

If holding one-way ticket, a multiple entry visa issued prior
to arrival is required.

Non-compliance with entry regulations (i.e. expired passports)
will result in a fine of TOP 5,000.- for transporting carrier.


5000 pa'anga is around US$2450


The final responsibility though, ends with the passenger. No travel agent or insurance company will be likely to assist with this sort of problem - it's up to the individual traveller to check visa requirements, or if they're a child/incapacitated, the person caring for them.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
So supposing you're refused entry into a country by the aiport immigration peeps. What happens about getting a return flight? I assume the passenger has to pay for it, but does the airline charge the usual high last minute price or do they cut the pax a deal?

And what happens if the flights are not regular or full - does the passenger stay in the airport waiting?

No charge to the passenger - the airline is responsible for taking them back to where the flight originated from as soon as a seat is available, even if it means bumping a confirmed passenger off. If the next flight is not for several days (as is the case in several Pacific Island countries, for example), the passenger may be held in jail until the next available flight.



MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 22135 times:

The rationale behind most immigration laws dates back to the steamship age. If you examine the history of immigration and the steamship companies, the laws of the United States in the 19th century then required that persons refused entry into the United States would be returned to their country of origin at the expense of the steamship line. Many progressive lines instituted programs where immigrants to the United States would be quarintined for several days and examined by the company's own medical team as part of their fare. That allowed them to identify immigrants likely to be refused entry before they got onto the ship, costing the company the expense of a return passage and preventing other healthy immigrants from being exposed to potentially contagious and costly illnesses. Vetting such as checking immigration credentials is nothing new in this sense-just good business sense.

Also, I would have to look up the specific code but I believe (if memory serves correctly) that it requires that the person be returned on the next departure to their country of origin. How the company handles the return is their own problem as it is their fault that the person was transported from the cuontry of origin to begin with. Whenever someone asks me how to find out what the travel requirements are for a foreign country that they intend to visit, I tell them to contact either the US Department of State or the destination country's US Consulate for those details.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22111 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 8):
I read somewhere that if you are refused entry, the immigration officer would still stamp your passport with a big indication that your entry was denied. Is that true?

Of course, a deportee can get a new passport to get rid of the stamp, or simply tear the page out.


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22093 times:

Actually it's not only the US, where the carrier is responsable to have it's PAX with valid documents. Without consulting my manuals, it's about everywhere I can remember, like this. The US may only be outlined here, as they are for many of us the best known place for checking relatively strict and applying straight rules, but other countries do the same. Swiss authorities for example do have a special force, checking people being suspect for traveling without valid documents right after leaving the aircraft. Only this way they can send unadmitted individuals right back to the airplane.

US immigrations explained me, that the visa wayver program, as in use with most European countries and others, is not only a contract signed by the countries, than also between the carrier and the US governement. The carrier must assure to transport anybody refused to enter right back. This also explains, why me for example, as a Swiss need to have a visa if I want to enter the US by car or private airplane. The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22086 times:
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What happens when you have a valid visa, have no "record" (per se) of overstaying, sufficient funds, etc. and you are still refused entry into a particular country?


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22036 times:

Besides the expense the airlines incur in sending an inadmissible passenger back, there's also the issue of fines levied. In Canada, if someone is denied entry due to insufficient documents (usually not having a required visa) then not only are they returned from where they came from, but the airline that transported them is fined something like $3000.

User currently offlineRobbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21875 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 12):
The visa waiver is only applicaple if an authorized carrier is involved.

Who are the carriers then? I've been wondering about that for some time now.



Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21815 times:

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
simply tear the page out

There is a reason passport pages are numbered, for this reason. You will get a stamp saying your denied entry and it usually goes on a page specifically designated for this purpose. Getting a new passport would be the only way.

In Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status. The airline saw one when they boarded. I have had a Canadian Immigration Officer check all IDs exiting an aircraft once, I suspect for this reason.


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21798 times:
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Then there is the problem of some countries where you technically need a visa, but the visa can be obtained at the destination airport. Does the carrier allow you to board to even get to that destination airport?

User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21793 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 13):
What happens when you have a valid visa, have no "record" (per se) of overstaying, sufficient funds, etc. and you are still refused entry into a particular country?

My guess is that the same still applies. A visa does not give one the right to enter a country only the right to apply at the port of entry. In the US with a non-immagrant visa you must still prove to the immigration officer that you intend to leave the country prior to the expiration of your authority. This seems to cause problems with people that come here many times in one year.


User currently offlineBristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 21636 times:

Thanks for your input everyone. I travelled from Belfast to Phoenix on Sunday and CO certainly checked my details before leaving Belfast.

Quoting Joni (Reply 11):
Of course, a deportee can get a new passport to get rid of the stamp, or simply tear the page out.

As Manu said the pages are numbered, and I think there's also a statement in the passport saying 'this passport has 35 numbered pages'. As for getting a new passport I got a new British passport last week and I think I read that you can only get a new one if yours is due to expire within 9 months. Of course you could always say that it was stolen I guess.

BF



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 21548 times:

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 9):
the airline is responsible for taking them back to where the flight originated from as soon as a seat is available, even if it means bumping a confirmed passenger off.

For all of you who ask about preclearance in Ireland pending departure for the US, this explains why it exists. In prior decades, so many Irish were buying tickets to the US without having valid entry paperwork. The airlines did due dilligence in DUB and SNN, but still many, many passengers got through. That is why everyone goes through an immigration check prior to departure from Ireland.

Interestingly enough, this is much less of an issue these days, as Ireland has one of the highest rates of reverse migration in the world, but yet immigration preclearance still exists.



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User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 21486 times:

I could have swore it was illegal to tear pages out or deface a passport.

Quoting Manu (Reply 16):
Canada I know there was an issue with people traveling to Canada destroying all documentation en-route and landing with no passport or ID and claiming refugee status

We still have that problem here, the best way IMHO is to collect everyones passport once they are on the aircraft and hand them out as they leave the aircraft. Or they display it as they leave the aircraft (and are still airside). An airline tried the former once and all hell broke loose but I think its the best way to deal with this. Either that or just send them back to wherever the flight originated (although you can't do that either).

There was a case a few weeks ago of a little old lady flying from Manchester (UK) to Varna, Bulgaria. She had a British Passport but her's said "British Subject" instead of Citizen (I believe she was Irish). Before she even made it to passport control she was taken into a room for questioning and then rushed back onto the waiting A320 which was empty, just the crew.

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineOutlier From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21455 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 21):
her's said "British Subject" instead of Citizen (I believe she was Irish).

What is this subject vs citizen thing all about?


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3097 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21449 times:

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 1):
If trying to enter the US, the airline that brought you there is responsible for getting you back out. How they recover their expenses is the airline's problem as far as the US govt is concerned. (And that makes sense, if you ask me.)

This is one reason why airlines check your immigration credentials into the US pretty carefully at checkin (even before Sept 11, 2001) -- the airline has an economic incentive not to transport people who will be denied entry, and therefore go home on the airline's nickel.

I suppose the airline can try to get you to pay for the flight back... but in many cases, they're not going to get very far.

What happens if the pax is travelling on a fake passport which even the immigration officers at the point of embarkation, could not detect.....but the US inmmigrations identify it as a fake.....

In such a case, would the airline still be liable? They did their best to ensure that the pax are all legitimate......any ideas????


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 21438 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 21):
We still have that problem here, the best way IMHO is to collect everyones passport once they are on the aircraft and hand them out as they leave the aircraft.

IMHO that would be the recipe for a logistical disaster, especially on a fully packed widebody. Most passengers will be unable to complete arrival documentation, due to lack of passports in their personal possession on planes, disembark at their arrival airports and most likely face chaos. Personally I do not like the idea of handing over my passport to an unknown person for an extended period of time.  twocents 


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
25 Apodino : Something like this happened to my parents a couple of years ago. Due to a blizzard hitting the northeast, American cancelled their flight into Miami
26 FlyingColours : I don't know, I think it may have been some kind of scheme to identify Foreigners who have GB Passports with Citizens who were Born here. But that is
27 BristolFlyer : So the passenger is standing in line at the immigration desk at an aiport having just got off a plane and doesn't have a passport? Man, that would ta
28 ORDagent : You betcha! When I worked for American we were trained on how to scrutinize passports. The INS staff were somewhat flexible when it came to levying f
29 Post contains links BDL2DCA : It's a legacy of the Empire. Not always the most accurate source, but you get the gist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law http://e
30 Geo772 : Often when a person intends to file for asylum they will board with al the correct paperwork which will go missing in flight. Quite often when this ha
31 YULWinterSkies : My guess (it's only a guess) is that they are insured for this kind of situation... Now, what would happen if a pax forgets its ID onboard and realiz
32 Brons2 : Yes. This was the case when I visited Turkey. I flew STR-AYT on Hapag-Lloyd and was able to procure a visa upon arrival for 15 EUR. Since I was the o
33 Lhrmaccoll : Happened to my grandad while he was still alive, I can't remember why he wasn't let in, but it was something to do with communists....... He was sent
34 Jetdeltamsy : In the United States, the carrier that brings the illegal into the country is responsible for getting them out, whether or not the individual is will
35 FLY2LIM : Which is why they invented COMPUTERS. You can change passports all you want (remember, new passport, new visa application for that country) but you c
36 Outlier : Ok, I see now. Thank you!
37 Post contains images Legacy135 : I am not aware about any airline flying regular from here (=Europe) to the US who is not approved in the visa waiver program, for sure, originating f
38 ORDagent : It happens. We had a German kid leave his Kinderausweiss (sic) on board. We got it just before the cleaning crew pitched it! People can be really loo
39 Post contains images BristolFlyer : Not in the US. I got a new British passport last week whilst on holiday in the UK (from the US) and kept my old passport which contains my US visa. A
40 FLY2LIM : You are a British Citizen, possibly even more beloved in this country than Canadians. I was talking about the scenario where someone has their passpo
41 BA : A few years ago when I was checking in at British Airways in Denver to go to Beirut, Lebanon, the check in agent kept browsing my US passport and the
42 N1120A : No, actually, it has to do with the legacy of the monarchy. Technically, people in the UK are still SUBJECT to the will of the monarch, namely Elizab
43 RIXrat : Can someone explain this. In my US passport I have many arrivals at LGW and LHR with the usual entry to Britain stamp allowing me six months stay, but
44 SasA319 : If a pax is deported back to pakistan on PIA, they ask for the cost of a ticket. If the pax cannot pay they get locked up until they get the funds fro
45 WildcatYXU : I dare to disagree. Several friends of mine, dual British/Canadian citizens, travel regularly to the US by car using only their British passport. Non
46 N1120A : Yep, you are correct. Visa waiver applies no matter how you enter, as long as your passport meets the criteria.
47 Post contains images Legacy135 : Then they just were lucky. I know personally about crewmembers, using their layover in Miami for a trip to Bahamas, rushing into big troubles on comi
48 Post contains links BA : Legacy135, The Visa Waiver Program applies to those coming for the purpose of tourism or business. I do not believe airline crewmembers are included a
49 Post contains images Legacyins : You were required to have a visa because you were not flying on an aircraft signatory to the visa waiver program. If you fly on LX, BA, or any other
50 Post contains links WildcatYXU : Sorry Legacy 135, you're wrong. My friends weren't fortunate, the immigration officers were following the rules. This is excerpt from the www.travel.s
51 AirNZ : Not quite. Actually, from the original question I am very surprised that anyone recently had a passport of "British Subject" as, if my memory serves
52 Voyager747 : Well at Pearson (Toronto) last time I went to the US the US Customs were at Pearson.So I all ready past US customs before I got on the plane.
53 BA : I can tell you that the border between Switzerland and its Schengen neighbors is very porous and there are several border crossings where they only d
54 Post contains links BA : That's because in Canada, Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG), Montreal (YUL), Ottawa (YOW), Toronto (YYZ), Vancouver (YVR), Victoria (YYJ), and Winnipeg (
55 JFK998 : Oh I got a story!! In August 2003 I flew BA from LHR to JFK. When I checked in for my flight in LHR they checked my passport (U.S. Passport) and every
56 Post contains images Legacy135 : That's what I say. Travelling by private airplane, you either need an agent, backing you up in the US with the visa waiver agreement, or you need to
57 FLY2LIM : Every time I enter the US, the immigration officer enters a number next to the arrival stamp on the customs form, and I know that when the form is gi
58 Lredlefsen : I'm only guessing, but is it "In Transit", or "International Transit", or somesuch? Do you actually stay in England, or do you fly on to some other d
59 StarGoldLHR : This is to promote tourism and encourage airlines to pre-clear at SNN. I was just here last sunday. Only US Immigration. I flew AC from DUB - SNN - Y
60 Legacyins : There is no such a thing as " the number determines whether you will be search or not". AT SFO, the number means the number of passengers traveling.
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