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Need Advice On AF B-Class: 340 V. 777, EWR V. JFK  
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

I am going on a business trip to the Middle East for 10 days, leaving this weekend. I haven't purchased tickets yet, but it will be on AF business class (NYC-CDG-CAI, and DAM-CDG-NYC).

I have a choice of flying the A340 from EWR, or the B777 from JFK. Without turning this into A vs. B, and the equally contentious EWR vs. JFK, please share thoughts on the following:

1) on which aircraft does AF have a better product in business class? with respect to seat comfort and IFE. perhaps they are identical?

2) which airport has the better AF business class lounge?

Basically, any reasons for choosing one flight vs. the other would be very useful. Thanks in advance.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
2) which airport has the better AF business class lounge?

I would assume JFK as they partly own T1 and have five daily high-density premium cabin flights to CDG as opposed to one 343 from EWR.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
I am going on a business trip to the Middle East for 10 days, leaving this weekend. I haven't purchased tickets yet, but it will be on AF business class (NYC-CDG-CAI, and DAM-CDG-NYC).

Out of curiousity, what business brings you to Syria?!


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

I would put in a vote for JFK, not because I have anything against EWR (which I also use frequently), but because I personally find T1 extremely pleasant to fly in and out of. It's modern and attractive but at the same time small and user-friendly. JFK is also less susceptible to weather delays, which can be a big problem at this time of year with all the thunderstorms that develop in the afternoon/evening.

As for aircraft, some say that the A340 is a bit quieter, but the 777 may get you there a few minutes earlier.

If you're really having trouble deciding, though, why not try one route on the outbound and the other on the return? It shouldn't add anything to the fare, and it could be fun to try both airports and aircraft.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

I would say go with the 777 from JFK. Terminal 1 is a great terminal, very modern and clean. The Air France lounge at Terminal 1 is really great, it's the only first/business class lounge I have ever been in but it was a great experience!

Air France is a great airline, I have flown them 18 times. Mostly out of JFK but twice out of and into EWR.

I would make sure to book on Air France 7 leaving and Air France 8 coming back because they are both on the 777-300ER which were delivered to the airline with the new l'espace interior.


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User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7191 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5504 times:
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Boeing.

Move this post to polls.


User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

For what its worth, fly on over to:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_France/information.php

At least you can get a look see at AFs seating configurations for both birds.
Have a great trip and hope your choice is the best for you.  airplane 



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

I often fly on AF's 777 AND 340.

The pitch and seat width are the same. So, for you, only the aircraft matters. The 777 will definitely bring you there faster, and JFK's T1 is just fantastic. The AF lounge is very good there, so my choice would be JFK with 777.

The 777 is a bit noisier, in my personal opinion, than the 340, but it's such a beautiful plane, and quite faster. It's a new generation airplane, unlike the 340 which already has flown a lot. Plus, the 777 will be cleaner than the 340 Big grin

Have a nice flight !



Cheers
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

Last month I flew Roundtrip in business on AF JFK-CDG both flights on the 77W. AF has an excellent lounge at JFK, and the terminal is much more modern and attractive than EWR. The 77W is wonderful and brand new - try and sit in the small forward cabin if possible (rows 3 and 4 I believe). I had both 6A+B on the way over which was excellent, and 10 L on the way back. Rows 6 and 7 seemed great, but row 10 was much lounder as you are right next to the engine.

Have a nice trip


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21525 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

I´d say from JFK with the 777. Try and get a 77W (7 and 9 are the flights, I believe).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 2):
JFK is also less susceptible to weather delays

What makes you say that?

I would choose JFK and T1 if I were you, though.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 9):
What makes you say that?

Not sure exactly what the cause is--I think it has to do with the runway configuration--but statistically there tend to be more delays at EWR than at JFK (and, anecdotally, this has been my personal experience too). Here are the on-time departure rankings for May 2006: http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_..._tables/2006_05/html/table_05.html

JFK had 84% on-time departures while EWR had only 75%. That might not seem like a huge difference, but out of the major U.S. airports, that puts JFK near the top while EWR is near the bottom. Don't get me wrong, JFK is not perfect, and I still end up flying out of EWR more often, but it's just another factor to consider when choosing a flight.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 958 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

I've done them both, though not out of NY. My vote is for the 343, hands down.

Seating is 2-2-2 rather than 2-3-2. And the 777 is MUCH louder than the airbus. I never use my noise cancelling headset in the 343, and always need it in the 777, no matter where I'm sitting in Business.

I've also flown the new interior rather than the old, and I hate to say it, but the old, while unquestionably grubbier in appearance happens to be more comfortable. The new is sleeker, and does look nicer. It just isn't. AF service has always been outstanding, in spite of what you might read. Food is consistently excellent, service is very French and very pleasant. And pray to the Chirac-God that they have the black current or mango sorbet on board for dessert. It's worth any transit hassles you might encounter in CDG.

AF lounges are pretty standard. They are comfortable, the cookies are fantastic, and the champagne excellent. The showers on the arrival side are excellent. Amazing what a little hot water, soap, shampoo, and a fat towel can do to you after a 8-9 hour ride. (I just wish Delta would learn a thing or two from their partner...)

Bon voyage!



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineTouchdown777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

I can not speak for the A340, EWR, nor AF's Business class. I will say that T1 at JFK is very nice and their T7s are quite comfortable, even in coach.

Send us a trip report sometime when you return ...

[Edited 2006-07-12 04:59:54]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

First of all, here is an overview of all available flights, and the equipment and cabin they operate with:


AF023 JFK CDG 1705 0600 operates with a B772ER configured with the new business class (NTC) in a 3-class configuration

AF017 JFK CDG 1805 0725 operates with a B772ER configured with the old business class (OTC) in a 3-class configuration

AF019 EWR CDG 1925 0840 operates with an A343 configured with the new business class (NTC) in a 2-class configuration

AF007 JFK CDG 1925 0850 operates with a B773ER configured with the new business class (NTC) in a 3-class configuration

AF011 JFK CDG 2040 0955 operates with a B744 configured with the new business class (NTC) in a 2-class configuration

AF009 JFK CDG 2250 1150 operates with a B773ER configured with the new business class (NTC) in a 3-class configuration


First of all, you would want to steer away from the old business class of AF017, as those cabins are really starting to show their age. As for JFK, you then have a choice between 3-class B772/B773, both of which offer the same cabin comfort, but you want to make sure to be seated in the first (smaller) C-class cabin right behind the F-class section but still in front of doors 2.

Still at JFK, you could go for the 2-class B744, if you fancy flying that plane, which has the same cabin comfort of the new C-class, but be aware that there is no C-class on he upper deck as that is entirely Y up there. On the B744, you want to be seated in the first C-class cabin on the lower deck (rows 1-4) with a row 1 window seat probably the best seat in the house.

As for EWR, the A343 also offers the new C-class, and the best seat there is by far seat 02A, which is a bulkhead seat with plenty of leg space.

As for JFK vs EWR, I really don't have an opinion on that, but it is clear that AF has the nicer lounges available.


User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

I'd go from JFK's T1 as it a lot more modern and secure than Terminal B at EWR. Plus the AF lounge there is unbeatable. I was lucky enough to go in there when it first opened and wow, what a place.


Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 10):
Not sure exactly what the cause is--I think it has to do with the runway configuration--but statistically there tend to be more delays at EWR than at JFK (and, anecdotally, this has been my personal experience too). Here are the on-time departure rankings for May 2006: http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_....html

Well, now you're talking about on time statistics, not weather.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 15):
Well, now you're talking about on time statistics, not weather.

The two are closely related. On good weather days, except for the occasional mechanical or other unexpected delay, most flights tend to run on time. It's bad weather when things fall apart, and things tend to fall apart quicker at EWR than at JFK due to the layout of the airports. This tendency is reflected in the on-time statistics.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

Anyone who lives in NY knows that EWR and LGA face much larger weather delays than JFK. Both of those airports are much more congested and have far more regional flights which clog the runways. If you listen to 1010 WINS radio (which is the local news/traffic/weather station) you always here 30 minute or hour delays at LGA and EWR, but rarely JFK

User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 6):
The pitch and seat width are the same. So, for you, only the aircraft matters. The 777 will definitely bring you there faster,

From US to Europe it is a short (less than 8 hours) night flight. Travelling in Business, I would go for the slower plane ! This translates in some more sleep.
And as mentioned above the 340 is really quieter.

In the other direction, it is a day flight and this changes obviously the point of view.



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

I would advise you the A340. Then you are sure to travel in the new cabin interiors as all the fleet is now reconfigured.

From EWR to CDG, the daily AF019 is operated by an A340 configured with 30J/261Y, which means the quite small Business Class is located between Doors 1 and Doors 2. The cabin is, in my opinion, much more pleasant with a 2 x 2 x 2 seating, compared to the B777 and really more quite, espacially compared to the B772ER.

The Business lounge at JFK is great and far better than the facilities offered at EWR, but the flights experience also much more delays out of JFK, than EWR.

If you want to try the B773ER, then go for AF007, especially if you are a "Flying Blue" membre and a good customer, you can expect an upgrade to First Class.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Quoting NYCFlyer (Thread starter):
I am going on a business trip to the Middle East for 10 days, leaving this weekend

When are you flying ?

I'll be on Duty on AF007, leaving JFK next July 19th.


User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

I wasn't expecting so many good comments and suggestions! This is why I love a.net. Thanks to everyone who replied.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 20):
When are you flying ?

I'll be on Duty on AF007, leaving JFK next July 19th.

I am leaving the day after tomorrow, Friday, 7/14. Based on above suggestions, I will probably fly AF 007 from JFK, for the new 773ER. My connecting flight to CAI leaves at 10:45am. I would consider the 744 ex-JFK, but it gives me too close a connection, arriving 9:55am. I've always wanted to sit upstairs on a 747 since I was a kid, but as the poster mentioned, C-class is in the lower cabin.

I forgot to preface that I have flown AF b-class ex-EWR, two years ago, and I was impressed. The lounge is pretty nice there - it's a NW lounge, I was surprised that NW would even have a lounge there. And AF service is consistently the best, IMO, of the European carriers.

Back in 2004 - and someone correct me if I'm wrong - AF had rolled out a new b-class product, "Premier Espace de Voyage," or something like that - but only at EWR (and maybe PHL?), but not at JFK. I assume this new product is on all flights now.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Surprisingly enough, the NY Post had an article about delays at JFK and EWR today:
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionaln...ow_regionalnews_bill_sanderson.htm

Passengers flying into Newark Airport have a 45.5 percent chance of facing an arrival delay - more than any other airport in the country, according to a new Web site set up by the air-traffic controllers' union. The new site notes that JFK comes in second behind Newark for the airport with the most arrival delays, with 43 percent.

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 14):
modern and secure

More secure????

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
but the flights experience also much more delays out of JFK

What is the source of delays in your opinion? Is it possible that it just seems like there are more AF delays at JFK because they have 5 daily flights as opposed to 1 at EWR?


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
What is the source of delays in your opinion? Is it possible that it just seems like there are more AF delays at JFK because they have 5 daily flights as opposed to 1 at EWR?

This is from my own experience, flying often to JFK.
It is due to congestion and ATC slots, in the late afternoon/early evening departure when ALL the flights to Europe are leaving at the same time ...
It happens sometimes to be number 25 or 28 in sequence for take off ... my record is number 36.
I never experienced that at EWR.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 21):
I've always wanted to sit upstairs on a 747 since I was a kid, but as the poster mentioned, C-class is in the lower cabin.

Right. All the 40 Business Class seats at located on the main deck.
17 seats in the "nose", 23 between Doors 1 & 2 (3 rows of 7 abreast seats 2 x 3 x 2, 1 row with only 2 seats right before the Doord 2 Right).



Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 21):
AF had rolled out a new b-class product, "Premier Espace de Voyage," or something like that - but only at EWR (and maybe PHL?), but not at JFK. I assume this new product is on all flights now.

"Nouveau Espaces de Voyage"
Available on all the A343, A332, B744 (except 2 aircraft), and B773ER fleet.
Concerning the B772ER, 5 aircraft (on a total of 25) are already modified.

[Edited 2006-07-12 21:07:48]

User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 23):
"Nouveau Espaces de Voyage"
Available on all the A343, A332, B744 (except 2 aircraft), and B773ER fleet.
Concerning the B772ER, 5 aircraft (on a total of 25) are already modified.

How is "Nouveau Espaces de Voyage" different from whatever the previous service product was?


25 Horus : Remember AF use the A343, A332 and B772 out of CAI (depending on the day and flight). Hope you have a great time in CAI and DAM. Don't forget a trip
26 CRGsFuture : RJPieces I was able to get to the passenger lounge on the arrivals level at T2 at JFK, without a ticket as I needed to go to the bathroom. I tried tha
27 RJpieces : Simple explanation for that being that the middle of T2 is not past security. It is an incredibly weird layout and one of the only terminals I can th
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