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EK And SQ Considering A380 Cancellations?  
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13581 times:

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...ile=Business_News2006071292331.xml

Fair use quote:
"The A380 has been hit by production delays with other major airlines like Singapore and Emirates seriously reconsidering their plans to acquire the aircraft."

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13552 times:

That would be the worst that could happen to Airbus Industrie ! Hope EK and SQ keep their orders......

Finger crossed for Airbus


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13744 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13488 times:

With all due respect, with regards to the specific issue of Singapore Airlines Limited and that other airline, I don't think the newspaper knows too much.

And anyway, there are quotes from top level executives that neither airline is considering cancelling.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5037 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13488 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Thread starter):
"The A380 has been hit by production delays with other major airlines like Singapore and Emirates seriously reconsidering their plans to acquire the aircraft."

I'm going to guess they pulled this one out of their backsides. Emirates has said that they need the A380, have said in so many words that they will not cancel them, and have even recently hinted at ordering more of them. And SQ cancelling? They've already invested too much into that aircraft, they're not going to cancel them.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10111 posts, RR: 97
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13426 times:
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Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
And SQ cancelling? They've already invested too much into that aircraft, they're not going to cancel them.

And are about to partner the route-proving flight-test programme. Cancellation now sounds a bit unlikely.

Regards


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13426 times:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2):
there are quotes from top level executives that neither airline is considering cancelling.

I thought to have read that too, Singapore_Air.

I know it has been a wet dream for A380 bashers, but EK and SQ remain totally committed to the plane.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13402 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Thread starter):
"The A380 has been hit by production delays with other major airlines like Singapore and Emirates seriously reconsidering their plans to acquire the aircraft."

The question is whether this is a self-constructed and interpreted summary of the situation by the writer or refers to actual first-hand statements by top executives. And the latter option doesn't appear to be very likely...


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
I'm going to guess they pulled this one out of their backsides.

That's a possibility, but it's not a good business strategy for a newspaper. I don't think this is the Weekly World News.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
Emirates has said that they need the A380, have said in so many words that they will not cancel them, and have even recently hinted at ordering more of them.

That's one of the reasons why I put a question mark in the title. However, EK would routinely reevaluate their situation, not run on autopilot.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
And SQ cancelling? They've already invested too much into that aircraft, they're not going to cancel them.

Given SQ's history of dumping planes after investing far more (including putting them into service), it is entirely plausible that SQ might cancel their WhaleJet orders now. If the rumours of the contract details are true, then SQ would lose their deposit on the first WhaleJet (probably around $50M) and perhaps another $50M spent on marketing. They would have to lease some JumboJets to provide interim lift until the SuperJumbo EIS in 2010.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13322 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
That's a possibility, but it's not a good business strategy for a newspaper.

Probably it's simply the interpretation of the individual writer - the "business strategy" of a newspaper does not always apply to every single article and every single paragraph.


PH

[Edited 2006-07-12 15:55:08]


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13245 times:

This is only to pressure Airbus further about getting a better deal. Maybe a buy 1 get 1 free offer???

These are all empty threats that circulate around so Airbus cowers a bit and gives them what the airlines want.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9155 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13195 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
Given SQ's history of dumping planes after investing far more (including putting them into service), it is entirely plausible that SQ might cancel their WhaleJet orders now. If the rumours of the contract details are true, then SQ would lose their deposit on the first WhaleJet (probably around $50M) and perhaps another $50M spent on marketing. They would have to lease some JumboJets to provide interim lift until the SuperJumbo EIS in 2010.

At the same time loosing face with its Chinese customers, this will be perceived as a failure of SQ management by its customers. The customers will not accept blaming Airbus, the will ask why SQ did not project manage its fleet better.

Singapore airport and SQ still have the "first to fly A380" splashed around everywhere.

Also the significant investment of Changi airport delayed A380 ready terminal 3 which is not finished yet, the delay of the A380 in service will take the heat off the terminal not being open.

SQC in my view will be a 748F customer, however in mainline I think the 773ER will be the choice machine for the next 5 years.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13163 times:

Give ourselfs a brake Zvezda. Both SQ and EK confirmed after last delay announcement that they remain commited to the plane. EK actually talked about converting order for A346 into more A380s.

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Thread starter):
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...ile=Business_News2006071292331.xml

Fair use quote:
"The A380 has been hit by production delays with other major airlines like Singapore and Emirates seriously reconsidering their plans to acquire the aircraft."

The Peninsula among others is one of the worst newspapers I have ever read but also some of the best entertaining ones. Since I am about to go to Doha soon I will get some to entertain myself a bit. Big grin


I think they won´t cancel the planes unless yet another delay is announced.
let´s cross fingers and hope that it was the last interuption before the first delivery!


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

I seriously doubt they are going to cancel an entire major acqusition program like this. The entry in service plans are well thought out in advance of an order. Throwing the delays into this is what pissed off EK and SQ, but the fact remains that they still plan on having the type in service and they are going to extract every pint of blood possible from Airbus.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Thread starter):
"The A380 has been hit by production delays with other major airlines like Singapore and Emirates seriously reconsidering their plans to acquire the aircraft."

EK - No way. The A380 order put EK on the map.
SQ - Possible. SQ has a history of dumping aircraft early in the adoption cycle. If as speculated the planes continue to be significantly delayed, or overweight, what SQ carefully. SQ put the A-340 on the map with a huge late cancellation of a MD-11 order.

I still think the biggest chances for cancellation are MAS and VS.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13027 times:

MAS is the only real possibility. However that is not due to any issues on Airbus side but due to dramatic financial situation of the airline.

User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9155 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13027 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 14):
I still think the biggest chances for cancellation are MAS and VS.

With MAS dumping 50 aircraft from its fleet, I see that as very possible.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

With respect to SQ, I think the real question is if they will convert their options to firm orders?

As far as the 77W replacing the 744, here I think the issue is what Boeing does with the 748I. If they do stretch it further as some potential customers are asking, I think it will have a very good chance of entering the SQ fleet. Especially, if there are further problems with the 380.


User currently offlineOlympicbis From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 12910 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
I know it has been a wet dream for A380 bashers

I am wondering if there has ever been so much bashing about any aircraft as for the A380!!! Is it due to its size, or for whatever other reason, I do not know. but as far as I am concerned, I think it just becomes ridiculous, wherever it comes from, individuals, press or professional gossip makers...


User currently offlineAirspare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12831 times:

Can a newspaper troll?

Maybe it's a political game inside of EK, planted in the press. Who knows, a message to A? Get it right or you'll be paying us to take the planes.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12776 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 15):
MAS is the only real possibility. However that is not due to any issues on Airbus side but due to dramatic financial situation of the airline.

It's just a good excuse. As for the rest, we shall see what occurs.


User currently offlineMetalInyoni From South Africa, joined Oct 2005, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12719 times:

SQ and Ek would have ordered the 380 based on a business plan and not simply because the aircraft is availible. Canceling the orders will not achieve anything unless they have significantly changed their business plans for the next ten years or so. The airlines have specific growth plans that are being hampered due to the delay. Canceling the orders will ensure that their growth plans are not only delayed but never met. Questions would be asked of the senior managment of a company if they were to drastically change their business plan all of a sudden without any significant changes in the business environment such as 9/11 type event.


Money doesn't make you happy but I would rather cry in a BMW than on public transport.
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12702 times:

It would be completely irresponsible for all airlines to not consider cancelling every time a major problem arises. It is called due diligence, and the entire board should be fired if they did not follow through on one of their primary job requirements.

Whether or not any problem or set of problems warrants cancellation is another issue altogether, but they must perform due diligence for the stockholders.

At this point I would say that the 380 is getting close to being ripe for cancellations, but I think it will take at least one more major delay or problem for their reexaminations to result in a recommendation to cancel.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12654 times:

Quoting MetalInyoni (Reply 21):
SQ and Ek would have ordered the 380 based on a business plan and not simply because the aircraft is availible. Canceling the orders will not achieve anything unless they have significantly changed their business plans for the next ten years or so. The airlines have specific growth plans that are being hampered due to the delay. Canceling the orders will ensure that their growth plans are not only delayed but never met. Questions would be asked of the senior managment of a company if they were to drastically change their business plan all of a sudden without any significant changes in the business environment such as 9/11 type event.

Substitute A380 with MD-11 above, and read it back to me.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12628 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 23):
Substitute A380 with MD-11 above, and read it back to me.

The only difference is that there's no 1:1 replacement for the A380 as there was for the MD-11.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
25 Keesje : non sense & he knows it would be interesting to see though what happens if one of the early customer gets rid of a substantial number of A380s I think
26 Pavlin : Airbus made "loss" with selling the A380 to SIA. It would be somewhat better if they can make order on hold. The EK order is far more valuable. If the
27 Post contains images Astuteman : Interesting - on another thread you speculated that "hundreds of millions of investment" was the "ball-and-chain" tying airlines to unwanted A380's t
28 Post contains images VinnieWinnie : Sounds like every article that comes up on the net and which has something bad to say on Airbus is posted as a new threat on this forum! Why not creat
29 Post contains images Swissy : See these statements and it will answer 99% why SQ or EK will not cancel the orders, delays and issues are common..... the 380 will fly just like the
30 Glidepath73 : ??? ??? Excuse me Zvezda, but your names make here not really sense. Nobody but you and a few others here on A.Net call the A380 "Whalejet". But the
31 AirFrnt : Once again a misquote. I was throwing a little kink into your generalization that because no one had canceled, the Business Week article a few years
32 Kaneporta1 : Why would SQ cancel their order? With the current production delay, they will be the only airline flying the thing for a while, and all the ads in pre
33 Slz396 : Boeing just increased their market forcast for VLA to 990 over the next 20 years and Airbus even predicts a need for 1200 VLAs. Judging by the extrem
34 Astuteman : For equitability, this was what you actually posted. Apologies if my comment was a misquote.... Regards
35 PlaneHunter : All the massive growth has worked well so far, though many people had predicted the end already years ago. And though EK's business plan (as well as
36 Post contains links 787engineer : I doubt there's any chance SQ or EK cancelling. If anything it'll be such a big blow in the PR arena that Airbus would just about do anything behind
37 YOWza : Follow the crumbs and you'll find the loaf: The Chairman of "The Peninsula" is Sheikh Thani bin Abdullah Al Thani. He is also an aviation enthusiast a
38 Katekebo : Realistically speaking, it is quite possible that EK and SQ may cancel SOME of their A380 orders (and EK more likely than SQ). EK order is so huge tha
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : it was for > 400 seats..which could mean a lot....there is a difference right now between Airbus and Boeing's numbers...which is fine...that's the be
40 Stitch : While either company may not end up taking their entire order, I can't see them (or AF, or LH, or QF) cancelling their entire order. While we don't kn
41 Post contains links Ikramerica : Only pro-Airbus A.net people believe this garbage. Here is a list of links including A380 enthusiasts, the industry press, flight school educators, e
42 HZ747300 : Agreed - it would not make sense for either airline to cancel their orders.
43 Zeke : Nothing that I have read in this thread or others like have have convinced me this is nothing but an underhanded insult designed and used to provoke
44 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Absolute hogwash. Fire up Google and try the following search strings: "airbus a380 superjumbo -boeing -747" : 135,000 hits "boeing 747 superjumbo -a
45 United Airline : This has not been confirmed yet. The B 777 will not replace the B 747 in the aviation market. I don't think SQ will cancel the A 380 order. But I thi
46 Antskip : Yep. They know what they are doing, and the A380 is not something that can be substituted. Those who directly compete with EK and SQ will find out in
47 Glacote : Hmm... 1) Top-level executives had publicly stated that they did not even considered cancellations - at a time where other customers (ILFC) did at lea
48 APwannabe : This might, however a marketing strategy on giving pressure to Airbus to have a furhter price cut or better deal or other benefits in the future as be
49 Astuteman : You would think this would be so, wouldn't you Stitch? If the cancelation terms were SO generous (as BusinessWeek claimed), the lack of cancellations
50 Post contains images AutoThrust : Yes, couldn't agree more i have seen most aviation and business pages calling the A380 superjumbo and NOT Whalejet. But i saw in a Boeing Article cal
51 Post contains images Glideslope : They are still on track. The internal target was missed by 1%. I am however very confident that Boeing's weight reduction will not result in failed w
52 Post contains images Autothrust : Is the 787 a double decker wich has about 500 km of wiring and will carry 800 people each with own IFE?Has the 787 to lift more then 500 tonnes?? You
53 Parabolica : Good Afternoon all Another, fascinating excersize in human sensibilities. I would like the offended persons, who feel that this is "another Airbus bas
54 VirginFlyer : Since this is turning into a debate about calling the A380 Whalejet vs Superjumbo, and possible weight issues on the 787 and the A380, and since these
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