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Will Pan Am Become A Intl Carrier Again?  
User currently offlineNWA763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this. I think it will be quite some time before this happends. It would be great to see a Pan Am 777.


15 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineLBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2261 times:

Not if the other airlines can help it.

User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (15 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 2261 times:

Yes id love to see Pan Am flying to Pakistan again, and the 777 & 744 in their colours, but with a full white fuselage not the bare metal belly as in the original PA's livery and a modified tail logo minus the Pan Am titling, just a plain horizontal white line in its place.

.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (15 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

As much as I would love to see Pan Am fly overseas again, it isn't going to happen. The current incarnation of Pan Am probably won't be around either
after a few years. I have no hard figures for their current financial operation
but I doubt that there is big money to be made flying from Portsmouth to
MidAmerica and Gary. Second, Pan Am probably doesn't hedge its fuel and
oil requirements and this is eating into most airline's finances. The 727-200
is an old plane, requires more maintenance, and trijets burn more fuel.

The operation is inefficient and based on a very thin promise of future
growth and earnings potential.


User currently offlineTriple Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (15 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Nothing is impossible here. If they could find a ninche in their market they might pull this one off. However the odds against them are staggering.

- Triple Seven

User currently offlineRominato From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (15 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

Technically, yes, i think that they will... That is to say that I've heard that they'd like to add Halifax to the loop. Being that Halifax is in Canada, I suppose you would then be able to call them an "international" airline.   as far as the actual overseas ops, don't hold your breath. I sincerely hope it happens, but it wouldn't be for a long, long time yet.

User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (15 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

It would be awesome to see Pan Am back in either Frankfurt or Berlin !!!!
Hope they can make it somehow.


User currently offlineRyanair From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

I understand fairly soon after Guildford took them over, they conducted a study into the possibility of operating DC10's on longhaul charters, but decided against it.

The Bangor Airport web site some time ago stated Pan Am had plans to operate "Jetstream Clipper Connection" flights with J31's from Bangor to Canadian Atlantic Coast towns, which is technically international.....

They're not quite an ordinary start up, their owners are part of the "old money" banking set and in the Oil Business (it's a sister company of Gulf Oil) and also Railroads, plus it's part of a group of companies, with Pan Am Services (Maintainance), an a/c dealership and Boston-Maine Airways who operate CASA's on behalf of DHL and Pan Am Services. The aircraft are fully owned, so there are no rental charges.

My view is with enthusiastic well capitalised owners, maintainance at cost, no rental charges and low landing fees they've a better chance than most. It's worth remembering though, no US start up has ever successfully gone international.

User currently offlineTwa319 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

I've read on their website, that they're going to use some of those Jetstreams from Saint Louis/ MidAmerica (to Springfield/Branson and Detroit, I think they said). It's sounding like it's a very successful port for them already.

So, once again it'll be Pan Am vs. TWA....

User currently offlineF-WWKH From Taiwan, joined Jun 1999, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Whenever that is - will be shortly before they go bankrupt (again).

User currently offlineN-156F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Now what makes all of you so sure that PA3 will be broke so quickly? They're aking some excellent moves- not ordering new jets, so as to avoid those costs, not expanding too quickly for their own good (like Vanguard did, and will likely go bankrupt for doing), not challenging many majors (also a Vanguard problem), and thankfully not going transatlantic with B747s (like PeoplExpress did, and wound up being killed for).
PA3 is probably doing the right thing by taking it very slowly and flying out of secondary airports (like PIT  ). While only time will tell, I think the new Pan Am willl do just fine, hopefully playing its cards right.

User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

PAA AM 3 will probably aim for destinatnatons in Canada, points in the Carribbean, Bermuda and maybe Cancun. Mexico but that's all international that they'll get on 727-200 ac. If they plan to go with 717s, A320 or 737s then it's just about the same range. If they go for a 757 once they have more money then the possiblities are endless. We might see them bridge the Atlantic once again if they went with 757s.

User currently offlineF-WWKH From Taiwan, joined Jun 1999, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Not to misunderstand, I would love to see Pan Am exapnding, or going global. But they better take it slow, numerous examples of the past (and I donot only mean Pan Am, of course) have shown that large expansion may go wrong. Well, that may also be at a later stage and then no one might to be blamed who had expansion in mind a few years ago. There should be other factors, political, natural etc. One just think of the oil prices now. What I have in mind? Istanbul Airlines for instance. Might have been too much competition for their case, though. Anyway, any gap left by such collapses is greedily taken over by others or new start-ups (sometimes with the same personnel and/or management/investors than the airline collapsed!)
At least this keeps the aviation world colorful for us and Airliners' Net photo-database growing (would really love to see one copy each of AA's MD80s though  )

User currently offlineSOUTHPACIFIC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

I would love to see Pan Am go international overseas again, very much!   But it will be a long time. Some people think the 727 is no good for startups. Actually, though, it is a very good aircraft. Consider this, you can ususally get a 727 from anywhere. The airlines are slowly retiring them, and theres millions in the desert of Arizona and Nevada. That means you can usually buy one cheap, making the aicraft fully-owned by you and eliminating one more bill. The 727 has good performance. It climbs fast, and flies faster than most jets do because of it's wing sweep. That means more flights in a day, and that means more money to the airline.
Also, parts for the 727 are all around. You don't have to order them for high prices like you do for new aircraft, you can get spare 727 parts for bargain prices!
The 727 has good fuel consumption. It's thirsty, but not real bad.

The only bad things are that the 727 is getting older, so it needs more care than a new plane would. And you buy a 727 as-is, you can't take it to Boeing and say "Fix this". They will laugh at you.
And finally the 727 is loud. I like the loud, but alot of people don't. I wonder why?!

The 727 is my favorite aircraft. I flew here not long ago, and it was the best flight of my life. I will always love 727, I will buy one of my own, no matter what it takes!
I LOVE 727!!!    

As for Pan Am. I miss the old one, they were cool. It will be a while before new PAn Am can go to Europe though. Protsmouth is a very good location. It's just outside Boston from what I hear, and I'm sure if their service and prices are good enough, people will drive to Portsmouth.
They should now start expanding out into their immediate area, become the local airline. Maybe some service into outlying Texas cities, like Lubbock, Amarillo, or El Paso? Or some tourist flights to New Orleans/Baton Rouge?
Canada is a good move for them, but they have to be careful. The majors will compete anywhere they can. If Pan Am can find large enough, near enough alternatives to the main airports of the major cities, like Toronto and Montreal, they'll make it.
Mexico, they should stay well away from Mexico City, well away. They could get some service started to Cancun, Acapulco, Guadalajara, or maybe Mazatlan.

The Caribbean area doesn't sound very safe at the moment because American Eagle has a stranglehold on all the routes. If they were to try an compete, AA would undercut them immediately, and possibly send the entire company into bankruptcy.
Or at least that's what I think.
Any thoughts?


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

I was in PSM a couple of weeks back to meet with Pan Am to discuss various joint ventures and commercial options. We intend to operate scheduled services from next year using L1011s routed PIK-SNN-PSM; PIK-SNN-SFB and PIK-YHM.

I found Pan Am to be highly professional and competent; with an excellent grip on finances. It's extremely easy for an airline to start haemorraging cash - but frankly I can't see their President, David Brink, allowing it.

We're looking forward to working with them!

User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (15 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

L-1011s!?!?! Are you sure about PA getting L-1011s in the PA billboard scheme? Are these retired L-1011s from Delta and TWA? Aren't they a bunch of gas guzzlers which is why TWA retired them along with DL.

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