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Cityjet To Spend €173m On 23 New Aircraft  
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

http://www.eecho.ie/news/bstory.asp?j=4013520&p=4xy3535&n=4013612

Although it dosen't say in the article, could we expect this order to be for the A318 after it's recent steep approach certification after trials at LCY? This would bring the WX product in line with parent AF and would have obvious advantages for their LCY operations. Any thoughts...???

 scratchchin 


Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

173m for 23 planes - that makes 7.5m per plane.....

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 1):
173m for 23 planes - that makes 7.5m per plane.....

That's very cheap for A318s!!!

What about 23 planes at $173 mill each - A350s or 787s at LCY anyone
 Big grin


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

Maybe just a leasing deal or only some aircraft of the entire order will be purchased outright.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 1):
that makes 7.5m per plane.....

Let 410? Beech 1900?  Big grin

Regards,
HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

They are buying 23 second hand Avro RJs from NW/Meseba.

So not much change! They will arrive at the rate of one per month for the next two years and each one will replace a BAE146 as it arrives. One advantage is that they are coming from just one operator, eleminating the configuation differences in the current fleet as they came from several airlines.

For those at the back, an Avro RJ is basically a BAE146-NG, with a modern cockpit and avionics among other improvements. Production ended in 2002 IIRC.

[Edited 2006-07-13 11:50:45]

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

OK, so finally the long rumoured deal is through.

Wouldn't a couple of larger RJ100 make sense as well - or is Cityjet not allowed to operated them for AF (something rings a bell) ? While the RJ100 is of no particular use at LCY IIRC, CDG-DUB etc. might need something bigger than a RJ85.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Is 23 the entire ARJ fleet of Mesaba or are there any other takers already?


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 7):
Is 23 the entire ARJ fleet of Mesaba or are there any other takers already?

No sure what the breakdown by aircraft type is, but they've got 77 regionals in total.

http://www.mesaba.com/mescom/home.ns...sf/splash/information?opendocument



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2387 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

They had 35 aircraft in total although a lot of them are stored already.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineRpaillard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

Hi,

Click Here to aditionnal information regarding the deal with WN:
http://www2.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/2865951/

Regards,
Raphael


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

CityJet will not buy any A318 for a simple reason :

The A318 is seating more than 100 PAX (123 seats in AF's config).

AF is not allowed to operate itself aircaft under 100 seats, that's AF has built all this network of agreement/Franchisee/Alliances with Brit'Air, Regional, CityJet.
And those airline can operate for AF only aircraft under 100 seats.

The Magazine "Air & Cosmos" recently reported that AF will acquire for its subsidiary CityJet 13 RJ85 from NorthWest/Mesaba.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 6):
Wouldn't a couple of larger RJ100 make sense as well - or is Cityjet not allowed to operated them for AF (something rings a bell) ?

Cityjets pilots union has a condition stating none of their flights can operate with more than 100 passengers, regardless of a/c type. So maybe RJ100s but definitly not RJ115s (if Meseba even has any that is).


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

So we are now up to 23 aircraft compared to 13 from the earlier thread. Is this new figure confirmed?


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
So maybe RJ100s but definitly not RJ115s (if Meseba even has any that is).

Mesaba has no RJ100s or RJ115 (which are the same aircraft except for the cabin configuration) so the source would have to be someone else. I was wondering because Cityjet operates two ex Air UK BAe 146-300s in addition to 17 BAe 146-200s.

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 9):
They had 35 aircraft in total although a lot of them are stored already.

Apparently, 22 are stored already. Mesaba at one point had 36 RJ85, but one was trashed a couple of years ago. Of the remaining 35, 13 are still flying for NW (I think the agreement between Mesaba and NW for the last aircraft expires in April 2007.


Is it known how Cityjet will reconfigure them - at NW, they fly with a generous FY69 (F16Y53) seating, while other RJ85 operators squeeze 93 seats into the aircraft.

All in all, a good deal for Cityjet as the oldest of Mesabas RJ85 is less than 10 years old, while the youngest was delivered 2001/02ish. Add to that that part of the fleet was put into storage over the past five years, and Cityjet will end up with a fairly young, low hour fleet.

BTW, if 23 go to Cityjet, another 11 airframes should be up for grabs (just a hint for Lufthansa/Swiss)

[Edited 2006-07-13 13:07:39]

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 13):
So we are now up to 23 aircraft compared to 13 from the earlier thread. Is this new figure confirmed?

Not sure, but maybe it has to do with fact that only 11 or so are owned by Northwest, the rest is leased from 7 different lessors (at least this was the situation in 2005). Air France may have to buy the balance from some of the lessors.

[Edited 2006-07-13 13:25:01]

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
Is it known how Cityjet will reconfigure them - at NW, they fly with a generous FY69 (F16Y53) seating, while other RJ85 operators squeeze 93 seats into the aircraft.

WX will go for the 93 seats in this case. From flying their 146s, I recall that they are quite cramped, probably only 30inch pitch. I think that the 2 -300s fly with some empty seats.


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Crossair, i.e. later Swiss, ordered Emb-1X0s with ventral air brakes specifcally for LCY service. I assume that order was cancelled? But maybe another airline could adopt that engineering effort.


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4608 times:
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Press Release From CityJet:

Quote:
CityJet announces major investment in new aircraft

CityJet has today announced that it has concluded negotiations for the acquisition of 23 Avro RJ85 aircraft.

With a value of $221m the acquisition represents significant investment for the Dublin-based Air France subsidiary.

The strategic importance of the deal is underpinned by the commitment of the world's largest airline group, Air France - KLM to investment in global inward access to Ireland, at a commercially challenging time in the aviation industry.

The phased introduction of the new aircraft from November 2006 represents significant investment not only in fleet replacement, but also in the company's future.

All the new deliveries are part of the same production family and with a younger airframe will deliver substantial savings on maintenance costs.

The close relationship of the new aircraft type to the BAe 146 currently operated allows the airline to dovetail its introduction into the existing fleet.

Launched in 1992, and with the most recent rolling off the production line in 2003, the Avro RJ85 regional jet has been an influential player in the development of regional air transport. Powered by Honeywell LF 507 turbofan engines, it is specifically designed to perform on shorter runways, essential for CityJet's operation into airports like London City and Florence.

The aircraft is equipped with the most up-to-date flight deck and navigation systems, and all-weather landing capability.

Passengers will benefit from an all-new interior, focused on enhanced passenger comfort - sculpted leather seating, improved standard seat pitch and enhanced baggage stowage space in the cabin.

To strengthen the image of Ireland as an island and to promote further interest in the country, each aircraft will be named after one of the many islands off the Irish coast, focusing on those that have particularly strong cultural, historical or natural attractions.

CityJet will operate the aircraft across its European network, with 4 abreast seating in Business class and 6 abreast in Economy, allowing it the flexibility to adjust the internal capacity to changing demand.

According to CityJet CEO Geoffrey O'Byrne-White, the choice of aircraft for the company was determined by a number of key factors, including its ease of introduction thanks to its shared characteristics with the BAe 146, its enhanced performance and economics.

Post 9/11 and SARS, the Avro series has seen an increase in demand as the aircraft is particularly suited to European regional carriers whose routes tend to consist of shorter sectors and high frequencies, feeding major hubs and helping to compete against the low-cost carriers."

In taking delivery of these aircraft, CityJet will join the ranks of other European RJ85 operators including Lufthansa CityLine, BA Connect, Swiss and SN Brussels, resulting in the Avro series becoming the fleet of choice for leading regional carriers.

Based in Swords, Co Dublin and employing 580 staff, CityJet's core operation is high frequency business and connecting flights, typically on key routes like Dublin - Paris Charles de Gaulle and Dublin-London City.

Last year the airline carried 1.5 million passengers, with a turnover of €254m, an increase of 18% on the previous year.



I like the fact that they are naming each aircraft after an island!

[Edited 2006-07-13 16:22:01]

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4582 times:

Surprise surprise that it does not mention the fact that the aircraft are second hand  Smile

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 19):
Surprise surprise that it does not mention the fact that the aircraft are second hand

This should be a clear enough indication (quoting from the article) for most of the readers: Big grin

Launched in 1992, and with the most recent rolling off the production line in 2003...



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

I see WX has 17 active BAe 146-200 (6 leased) and 2 146-300

Do you know where are they going after their replacement by Mesa ARJ's?


User currently offlineGreenjet From Ireland, joined Aug 2001, 956 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
Cityjets pilots union has a condition stating none of their flights can operate with more than 100 passengers, regardless of a/c type. So maybe RJ100s but definitly not RJ115s (if Meseba even has any that is).

No unions at CityJet but there are at AF. CityJet can operate with more than 100 passengers but not when operating AF flights. The 146-300s currently in the fleet have 108 seats.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 13):
So we are now up to 23 aircraft compared to 13 from the earlier thread. Is this new figure confirmed?

13 will be bought outright, and 10 will be leased from BAE.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
Is it known how Cityjet will reconfigure them - at NW, they fly with a generous FY69 (F16Y53) seating, while other RJ85 operators squeeze 93 seats into the aircraft.

They will probably have 95 seats.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
All in all, a good deal for Cityjet as the oldest of Mesabas RJ85 is less than 10 years old, while the youngest was delivered 2001/02ish. Add to that that part of the fleet was put into storage over the past five years, and Cityjet will end up with a fairly young, low hour fleet.

The aircraft are young but they are in bits apparently, requiring full interior overhaul and various other modifications.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 21):
I see WX has 17 active BAe 146-200 (6 leased)

For info, there are now 18 146-200s.


User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1472 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

ARJ's with four abreast in business class, replacing the B Ae146's with six abreast in business class, that at least is a very small improvement.

I wonder will we have a "Craggy Island".


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 23):
ARJ's with four abreast in business class, replacing the B Ae146's with six abreast in business class, that at least is a very small improvement.

At 95 seats overall, I would guess this will mean just an empty middle seat or a flexible seat that can serve both purposes.


25 Greenjet : That's correct. There won't be two classes as such - just a movable curtain with the business class seating having empty middle seats.
26 AirbusA6 : Who would have guessed the Avros would be (relatively) so popular in Europe and a failure in the US - when the BAe146 came out, the reverse was the ca
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