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BA & The A380: Yes Or No?  
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13722 times:

There is an article in the Observer (21 May) regarding T5 at LHR and its capacity to handle the A380.

When it opens in 2008, T5 will have 10 stands capable of handling the A380. That will rise to 14, out of a total of 60, by 2011. Now the stands can be used for any aircraft, so that in itself is no inference that BA is ordering them.

However, they article does say that analysts believe BA will want to add its name to an order book that currently stretches to 16 airlines and 159 firm orders.

One said: 'I think they will want to go for the A380. They may be holding out for the 747-800, but I think it is unlikely they will want to buy an airplane and risk being the only substantial customer for it. Their 747-400s are worth less in the market now than they are in their books.'

If not, who is going to use the stands? Or is it future planning when and if needed?

cheers

126 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13707 times:

Hmm... BA will order A380 because it has gates that can serve it? Typical A.net reasoning. As the Jewish saying goes: if I could live like that...

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
Their 747-400s are worth less in the market now than they are in their books.'

What on earth does that mean?



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13707 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Thread starter):
uture planning when and if needed

I reckon its a case of this. Sadly I get the feeling BA won't ever buy the A380  Sad


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13689 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):

What on earth does that mean?

I guess BA values their 744's on their books at more than they would actually receive if they sold them.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3394 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13689 times:

They might have to if no-one else orders the 748!

In answer to the other question - isn't QF going to use a couple of those gates for it's A380s?


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13667 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 3):
I guess BA values their 744's on their books at more than they would actually receive if they sold them.

Thanks Scotron, now I get it. Interesting actually.. if BA opts for A380, 748 will be virtually doomed.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13646 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 1):

BA will order A380 because it has gates that can serve it? Typical A.net reasoning

I think it's a valid question. There is no A.net reasoning behind it. But why have 14 stands, which is 25% of your terminal capacity, capable of handling an aircraft currently not in the fleet?


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13635 times:

BA has several routes that could support a daily A380, if not multiple times a day.
HKG, JKF, LAX, JNB, SIN, BOM, DEL come to mind. Once the A380 is proven in service and lives up to expectations we might be able to change the question 'yes or no' in 'when'.

I'm aware that BA operates exclusively Boeing widebodys at the moment, but this will not stop BA buying Airbus in the future if the aircraft suits her needs.

Willy Walsh has also said that the A380 can not replace the 744 one by one, but hasn't ruled out the A380 either. He said something along the lines 'we could probaply use a dozen/few', or 'we could probaply use it for a dozen/few routes'.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13635 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 5):
Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 3):
I guess BA values their 744's on their books at more than they would actually receive if they sold them.


Thanks Scotron, now I get it. Interesting actually.. if BA opts for A380, 748 will be virtually doomed.

Rubbish - not true at all.

I think BA would prefer to look at the A389 rather than the A388 - more mature platform, and BA are one of the few airlines in the world that could make it work. The 748 will roughly match the A388 in CASM, but the A389 will probably be significantly better again.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 6):
why have 14 stands, which is 25% of your terminal capacity, capable of handling an aircraft currently not in the fleet?

As Scouseflyer pointed out, QF will be operating the WhaleJet to T5. Also, suppose BA decide to buy Y3 (supposing it is built). It would be expensive for BA if the stands at T5 couldn't accommodate Y3.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13607 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
BA has several routes that could support a daily A380, if not multiple times a day.
HKG, JKF, LAX, JNB, SIN, BOM, DEL come to mind.

I'd add DXB, CAI, BKK, SYD, EZE and at least two of the major Chinese airports to that list by the time the A380 would be delivered.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13561 times:

I think BA has no chance NOT to operate the A380, as the other two majors AF and LH have it on order.Not to mention VS...

They have lots of routes which justify a demand for it.For example LHR-JFK...and a lot of the very important commonwealth connections!


 Smile


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13546 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):

Also, suppose BA decide to buy Y3 (supposing it is built). It would be expensive for BA if the stands at T5 couldn't accommodate Y3.

So we can put that one down to future planning. Are there any timescales on the Y3 project?


User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13529 times:

@ Zvezda

Do not talk about the replacement airplane of a yet to be developed airplane...(Y3 / B748I)

We are talking about airplanes for the next years, not decades...  Wink

Or would you like to talk about a B787-successor as well...

 Smile

In germany we say" Bleib auf dem Teppich... "

That means, be realistic...


Johnny  Smile


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13462 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
I'm aware that BA operates exclusively Boeing widebodys at the moment, but this will not stop BA buying Airbus in the future if the aircraft suits her needs.

Maybe not relevant to this thread, but I know Walsh did prefer airbus longhaul while at EI.

Its a difficult case.

I still think BA might order 773s instead of 748s, and some A380s (say 25) for the larger routes. But it still could go either way.


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13421 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Rubbish - not true at all.

What's rubbish? That in absence of 748I orders BA's choice to opt for the A388/89 will mean serious problems for Boeing? That's what I meant in this case, not that BA doesn't have any use for the A380.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineSapphireLHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13324 times:

As I understand it Qantas will not be operating from T5 but will take up the slots / stands that are presently being utilised by the BA Miami flights. This is the reason that these flights are going from T3 just to be able to keep them.
It is also the case that just because a stand is capable of taking a specific type of aircraft it does not mean that it HAS to operate from that stand. As the A380 is at this time the largest aircraft in current operation it is sensible to enable this and any other future aircarft of a similar size to be able to operate from T5 in the distant future. These stands are multi-role and multi-functional.


User currently offlineChalliday From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13260 times:

Quote:
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-(C)1997-2005 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

British Airways has said that it has no current plans to buy Airbus A380 aircraft.

The airline said that there are no immediate plans to acquire the superjumbo model, but it will be considered in long-term plans for its fleet. The airline has a fairly young fleet and does not need to acquire replacements, Reuters reported.


User currently offlineJEdward From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13220 times:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 14):
We are talking about airplanes for the next years, not decades...

While it may be prudent to limit the question, "Will BA order the A380" to the next few years, one would be shortsighted to apply a similar line of thought to the construction and design of a facility which could operate for decades.

Afterall, could not one argue that when T5 was being planned the designers thought in terms of decades over years? If so, why would the powers that be opt to potentially shortchange themselves of functionality throughout T5's life (whether it be a 388 in a few years or a 389 in a decade)?

[Edited 2006-07-13 15:02:13]


As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich. --S.C.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13192 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
if BA opts for A380, 748 will be virtually doomed



Quoting EHHO (Reply 16):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Rubbish - not true at all.

What's rubbish? That in absence of 748I orders BA's choice to opt for the A388/89 will mean serious problems for Boeing? That's what I meant in this case, not that BA doesn't have any use for the A380.

If BA go for the A380, then the 748I will *NOT* be virtually doomed.

Look at the list of customers that could go either way if they decide they want a VLAT right now:

Iberia, All Nippon, Japan Airlines, Cathay, South African, Asiana, Air New Zealand, EVA Air, China Airlines, KLM, United, PIA, Air India, Northwest, Air Canada, China Southern, Saudi Arabian, China Eastern...

Hardly slim pickings! Granted, the BA order will be important, but not life threatening to the 748 programme. Bear in mind also that some airlines may even operate both types if some of the Boeing cheerleaders on here are to be believed.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13099 times:

I think Willie Walsh has thought of all kinds of possible deals on all types of aircraft from either A or B at all sorts of prices, but he will have to wait for the right time for BA and so will we.

User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 13041 times:

As I always say, I don't think BA will order the A-380, atleast for a while yet, however, they have more important things to do and sort out, than to order a bunch of new aircrafts.
The pilots are saying they will strike if they don't get what they want, I doubt ordering a whole round of new aircrafts will please them, the airline still has debts to pay off, and not forgeting the pension problem.
Also, don't forget, that the 744's are not THAT old, they won't replace them, they are more likely to order the 787 before the A380.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineSpruit From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12984 times:

I believe from an article in Flight International that BA are considering both options (Airbus and Boeing) and are looking to make a decision soon!

But isn't it now the case that without some dropouts BA would be unable to get their hands on an A380 until at least 2010?

I wonder what the Boeing delivery slots for a BA order would be? And if BA choose Boeing over Airbus products what hoops the European manufacturer would jump through to make the Airbus product line more attractive?

Spru!



E=Mc2
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12903 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
HKG, JKF, LAX, JNB, SIN, BOM, DEL

HKG - Too much market saturation in the future, why risk it when if demand does peak 2x777s could meet it.

JFK - Agreed some A380s could be viable on this route, but if Bermuda II opens up LHR I would suspect BA will be sent reeling if DL / NW open up a bit more, and I suspect UA may increase again with an EWR.

LAX - No, not now, not ever ever.

JNB - Possibly, this is a destination of the future.

SIN - With all the competition on the 1 stop SYD route from the A380 when EK/MX/SQ/TG all start I think BA will contract this to a 777 and expand the route to Auckland instead,
I could even Imagine BA pulling out of SYD altogether and codesharing with Qantas.

Other than that they make have to go head on and remain in partnership with Qantas in which case they would look poor operating an elderly 747 when Qantas runs an A380 on a shared route.

BOM / DEL - I think this will become a 777 route.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
DXB, CAI, BKK, SYD, EZE

DXB - Too much competition for a A380 when EK gets going
CAI- Why isnt this a A320 currently ?
SYD / BKK - see my thoughts on Australia
EZE - 777 has to be, not that many Brits goto Argentina.

I think BA's future is in the 777 and not to risk the A380 on market demand, remember BA is more expensive, and EK is going to push prices down further. If demand for a 777 is not enough BA could always add a second 777 / 787 on a route.

If demand isnt enough on an A380.. you lose money. That simple.
If demand increases for an A380.. it's a much bigger jump to add a second A380 ! or expensive to introduce another type.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Iberia, All Nippon, Japan Airlines, Cathay, South African, Asiana, Air New Zealand, EVA Air, China Airlines, KLM, United, PIA, Air India, Northwest, Air Canada, China Southern, Saudi Arabian, China Eastern

I dont think United / NW / AC will order the A380.. what routes would fill this that there is limited competition on ? Most US routes (inc intl) have too much competition to risk an A380 and have a competitor come in and offer a cut price route with a 787 or 2... even if you move routes it they would follow you and win on overall cost every time.

The 787 is a good plane for a mass market competition route and when demand falls stick it on some interesting new routes... A Bit like CO did with the 757... too much competition move it to BRS / NCL to US routes !



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12880 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Iberia,

Don't think so

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
United

No

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Northwest, Air Canada

No

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
China Southern

Maybe

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
China Eastern...

Maybe

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 23):
CAI- Why isnt this a A320 currently ?

Cairo is served by a 777.

These dreams are great, but most of them never come true, lots of the big carriers aren't in a buying mood, or have just ordered other aircrafts.
IMHO, the A380 is perhaps just a wee bit too ahead of its time.

Wrighty



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
25 Pavlin : The BA will order A380 if it will order large plane.... self explainatory (because 747 won't be so big anymore when A380 shows up.
26 Swissy : If you look at the BA route network you can see very well there will be some 380's down the road. What do you think is more expensive to operate 4 T7
27 ARGinLON : EZE on a A380? I guess you made a mistake here....The route is not even served non-stop.....
28 EI321 : All of the airlines that have ordered the A380 to date have smaller 744 fleets than BA, yet they want an aircraft the size of the A380 in their fleet.
29 Ken777 : I think that there is a lot of dust to settle before BA will be able to see where they want to go. Lots of issues to be resolved on both the 380 and t
30 Cedarjet : BA will definitely add A380s. It's 'when' not 'if'. NY, LA, MIA, NRT, JNB, MEX, SFO, IAD, maybe BOS, LOS, maybe SIN/BKK/SYD. Loads of routes need the
31 74472 : I think JFK for BA is about frequency and not capacity. BA and QF are going to operate to Australia out of T3. If BA are going to send A380's anywher
32 CHRISBA777ER : My bad - i meant Rio de Janeiro.
33 CHRISBA777ER : Horus is the fella to ask but IIRC its a daily 744.
34 Tom12 : I think they will just go for the 773 instead of the A380. Well said! ..... Judging by BA's history with the 747, i think they would much rater stick
35 CHRISBA777ER : Hear what you are saying mate, but my point was that there a lot of airlines that could entertain the idea of something larger than a 744 at some sta
36 CHRISBA777ER : Totally agree. Spot on analysis.
37 STT757 : BA has the slots to operate multiple frequencies, something VS does not which is why BA has way more flights to NYC, LAX, ORD etc from LHR than VS. I
38 RayChuang : British Airways is NOT likely to order the A380-800. The reason is simple: BA controls a large fraction of the landing slots at London Heathrow (LHR).
39 PADSpot : Certainly not. There is a huge gap between the A346 and the A388 in which the B748 neatly fits. It's the same wonderful market for Boeing as the A388
40 Comet4b : Whether BA will or will not buy the 380 will depend on whether or not a sound business case can justify it's purchase.I do not believe BA management a
41 GDB : No descision has been made, or will be made for some time yet. BA has not, in public, ruled the A380 in or out , whatever press quotes are made here.
42 Jacobin777 : Here is something to note: "He (BA-Planning Director Robert Boyle )also revealed it "very much pushed Boeing to produce the 747-8." " source:atwonline
43 A350 : Since BA is obviously not in a hurry, there is also the option to go for the A380-900. Don't forget that it will show a further substantial drop in se
44 BA787 : According to other threads, BA will be the exclusive carrier at T5 and QF and its other oneworld partners are in T3 with the T3 A380 PIER I think you
45 AirFrnt : Nope. The A380 only makes sense in the most extreme of artificially constrained airports. Obviously the fewer slots you have into LHR, the more artif
46 Zvezda : You're free to believe whatever you like, however, there is no rational basis for believing the WhaleJet can come close to the SuperJumbo in CASM. Lo
47 BA286 : At the moment the 777-300ER looks more realistic than either the A380 or the 747-800. BA operates a long haul fleet of exclusively Boeing jets, i dont
48 Adria : JAL and Airbus? This won't happen to soon, since it is not a Boeing I missed your CASM posts... to be fair you should always mention that this is you
49 Scotland1979 : Sure... I would love to see BA has A380s as well as other airlines. How about Westjet? Sure I would love to see Westjet A380s Why not!! Frank YXU
50 Zvezda : I cannot take credit for the Brequet Range Equation.
51 Aeroplan73 : You can scratch Air Canada off that list. They are phasing out all their 4 banggers and switching to a fleet of dual engine aircraft only.
52 AirFrnt : Go take a look at the latest CMO. Pretty good arguments in there that the 748i will have the lowest CASM of any widebody.
53 HighFlyer9790 : the day BA orders the A380, not only is the 748 doomed, but ill have my own 747 before that happens. i dont think it even makes sense for them as only
54 Zvezda : Only a few? I believe there are 21 airports that are either ready or actively preparing to support regular WhaleJet passenger service. That's more th
55 HighFlyer9790 : you just made my point. 21 vs. 200+
56 EI321 : Oh Really? So How many of their A380s are LH, AF, EK, etc assigning exclusively to LHR routes? If its not suitable for BA, tell me why its suitable f
57 Boysteve : I believe that BA will operate the A380 eventually, but it doesn't need to order it today. Lets look at the facts; Demand for Air travel is growing at
58 Adria : It's not the equation but what you put in. Your assumptions (on which you made your "analysis") are the problem. You don't get what I'm saying. Whene
59 Zvezda : Such a case could be made when Airbus were still claiming the WhaleJet could eventually get the same separation rules as the JumboJet. Now that even
60 Post contains links and images Keesje : Isn´t BA a hub to hub carrier that needs a lot of room for its passengers? If their 744 seats 291 passengers today a BA A380 would seat ~440. Maybe t
61 Tom12 : That is pretty damn smart!! Tom
62 Jacobin777 : given all the production delays, etc....the probability of them having The A380 for the Olympics is very small...
63 Zvezda : Ok, so you don't understand the Brequet Range Equation. That's ok. Privately message either me or any of many others here who do understand it and we
64 Stitch : But underfloor cargo capacity is a definite weakness of the A380. So if cargo yields are important - especially if they are more important then passe
65 Post contains images Swissy : How is it that some of these statements made here always claiming "the T7 is the solution for everything"...... How many of you guys actually worked o
66 SparkingWave : You don't really understand the term slots at all, do you? If take off slots at LHR aren't growing at all, it means that not only BA will not have ex
67 Sevenforeseven : Just as long as phony Tony is is Bushes pocket NO A380. If Bush says B747-800 then it will be how many master?
68 AirbusA6 : 1) I don't understand the comments that BA has LOTS of slots at LHR. I can't remember the exact figure, but it's the region of 40 something % which is
69 HighFlyer9790 : 291 in three class? i would think there would be more...?
70 Jacobin777 : He spins the truth so much that if I did this, I would be banned for a week.. BA's 744 fleets have 291 seats in four classes...and that is one set of
71 Glacote : What is CMO? Besides if after 12 billions USD and 40 years of design improvements Airbus was not even able to beat an alledgely cheap derivative then
72 Post contains links WingedMigrator : That assumes the B748I will be classified the same as the 744, rather than in the same class as the A380 superjumbo. It's named for Louis Breguet (no
73 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Hence why he is one of the only ones to have a law named after him here on A.net...Zvezda's Law....of which was started by a particular poster who ha
74 Post contains images WingedMigrator : I forgot to mention... about the A380-900: I beg to differ. The A389 would be entirely about recouping said costs more quickly. The A389 launch decisi
75 Scotron11 : Maybe they´ll have it before the London Olympics Wink Gotta admit it looks pretty darn smart in BA colors!
76 Post contains images MBJ2000 : So according to the armchair CEOs here the airlines who already ordered the A380 superjumbo are just dumb nuts?! Well seeing that nobody so far ordere
77 Khalyavia : I think the possibility of a North Atlantic Common Aviation Area (or whatever they're calling it these days) is something that must enter into BA's de
78 Post contains images LHR777 : Ah, you are mistaken...surely you must mean 'First', 'Club World', 'World Traveller Plus' and 'World Traveller'!!
79 Orlando666 : I think they will wait, and more likely 748i but not as launch customer.
80 Wrighbrothers : BUT, it means less flexibility for passengers, if you have to leave for JFK no later than 9AM, you can catch the 8:55am flight, but if BA were to onl
81 EGTESkyGod : Excuse my ignorance, but what is Y3?! I've never heard of it before......
82 VinnieWinnie : Why is it that every time the A380 is mentioned you have to go all over again repeating exactly the same arguments that you already have carefully el
83 Keesje : Taking the 747-8i at 450 seats and the A380-800 at 480-550 seats has only value at a.net. Everyone using that for CASM etc. should realize that there
84 Post contains links Scouseflyer : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Y3
85 Post contains images AutoThrust : JAL doesn't buy Airbus because they are die hard Boeing customers and politics has a role. Also some few factory's at Japan make the decision easier
86 Post contains links and images Scouseflyer : What from his jail cell? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5174082.stm
87 Baroque : Ask Qantas, reports are that they have the same problem. As oil guzup it is likely to get worse not better.
88 Keesje : In that case they have to wait until at least 2010 until they can order the 747-8 or the A380 next year.
89 CHRISBA777ER : Zvezda says it aint so, so it isnt so. Believe!
90 EI321 : I cant believe some people still try to use the 450 seat argument when discussing BAs reasons to buy the 748. BA 's current 744 fleet seats 291 in ve
91 Cedarjet : OK, here it is again: look at JFK, eight flights a day, almost all 747s. They advertise it as offering lots of frequency but lots of freq on longhaul
92 Post contains images AutoThrust : Zvezda is sure a very respected member but i cant believe in my ignorance everything. There is a Article of Flight International who says even the a3
93 Post contains images Swissy : Thanks Cedarjet, I could not have it explained better....... same in YYZ 3 flight within 4 hrs...... Cheers,
94 74472 : LHR/JFK is a very unique route. It's barely long-haul for a start, more like medium-haul. You dont feel like 'toast' after 6-7 hours in Club World or
95 Evomutant : Just out of interest, when was BA renationalised? I must of missed it.
96 Post contains images Stitch : Of course, the 747 family itself has undergone extensive improvements over it's forty year life. I am sure an A380-800 clubs a 747-100 on CASM. True,
97 Post contains images Adria : Using an industry standard equation is one thing but what data you put in is something totally different. So if that's so easy why don't we have a le
98 EI321 : I have autoCAD but no plans of aircraft unfortunatly, only architecture. There was a good A380 autocad layout on flight internationals site a few mon
99 Zvezda : I didn't claim that. Reread my post. Airports have not yet decided how many slots a WhaleJet will use. Probably some will require 1.5 slots. Given th
100 74472 : Yeah and compare it with LH at Frankfurt, AF at Charles and KL at Schipol. It aint alot of slots.
101 Boysteve : I'm sorry to upset you but I do understand the term 'slots'. If EK, SQ, QF, QR, MH, VS for example all introduce the A380 to LHR as we expect them to
102 Zvezda : That is not at all clear. It doesn't even seem likely. BAA have not yet decided how many slots will be needed for WhaleJet. It could be 2, it could b
103 Boysteve : OK, I must be a stupid thick idiot then
104 Post contains images Jacobin777 : duh..silly me, how could I have made such a majour blunder... Say what? ..I fly long-haul every few months....frequency IS important.....also look at
105 Glacote : Mistake. Its [i]ad nauseam... Nausea nausea nauseam nauseae nauseaa nausea. et caetera... Ah! Quid quid latinum dicum sit altum sonatur...
106 Post contains images Jacobin777 : duh..my bad.. ....good call...
107 PADSpot : Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
108 Post contains links and images Kanebear : There's this thing called Google that's wonderful for answering such questions. See? *Ahem* No, that should be: FIRST, Club World, World Traveller Pl
109 Post contains links and images WingedMigrator : I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer... far be it from me to perform seat count magic. I mentioned 450 seats solely in reference to the baseline de
110 Columba : Well it makes you wonder then that if LH and AF have a need for the A380 but BA does not although having fewer slots available at their hub than AF a
111 74472 : Isn't there a little company somewhere owned by the French and the Germans?
112 Columba : Which had at some time a 20 % British ownership and a factory in England that produces the wings. Besides the A380 has Rolls Royse engines. Believe m
113 74472 : How would it have looked if they hadn't ordered? When the arse fell out of the Concorde development which two airlines ended up taking delivery?
114 Columba : Back than both airlines were goverment owned - besides as I said British Aerospace owned 20 % of Airbus shares and the wings are produced in England
115 74472 : I agree, i'm just saying there probably was some influence somewhere.
116 Donder10 : Why then have they started to downgrade some of the flights to 772s?You can get some exceedingly cheap fares on the LHR-JFK route because there is an
117 Lovinitflyboy : SapphireLHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted Thu Jul 13 2006 14:10:34 UTC+2 and read 6774 times: As I understand
118 Baroque : IIRC it was renationalized just after Stephen Fry and John Bird tried to sell it to Bin Laden in "Absolute Power". Amazing, this TV stuff must be sta
119 Hb88 : Huh? "owned". Last time I went to work, the sign still said "A joint company with EADS and BAE Systems". [the sale of BAES 20% stake in Airbus hasn't
120 Zvezda : Much has changed since AF and LH ordered the WhaleJet.
121 VV701 : It will. All of BA's now small 752 fleet and all their flights to Spain (along with those of One World partner IB) will operate from T3.
122 PW100 : Just jumping into this thread, reading most of the analysis. Very interesting. Question: what are the latest range specifications for the 388 vs 748I
123 CSMUK : Working for BA if I had been asked this question a year ago, or even six months ago I would have said A380 - YES. Now, I think we are more likely to g
124 VV701 : I would doubt any decision in the near future, although it is possible. BA's aircraft depreciation policy (for accounting purposes) is to depreciate
125 AirbusA6 : I believe BA will make a decision on future long haul requirements at the end of next year...I'm sure airliners.net will reach fever pitch by the time
126 Carduelis : That statement is exactly what Chairman, Martin Broughton, and CEO, Willie Walsh, both said a couple of days ago at the British Airways Annual Genera
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