Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s For Int'l Routes  
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21643 times:

Delta enters transatlantic 757 game with 10 of the ex-TW 757s equipped with Business Elite seats. DL says they could be used for Europe, S. America, or Hawaii routes.

Delta to add 10 big jets next year
Move comes amid better outlook for ailing carriers, despite fuel costs

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/13/06
In its first addition of big jets since 9/11, Delta Air Lines plans to lease 10 extended-range jets that could fly to Hawaii or some spots in Europe.
Delta signed a letter of intent this week with International Lease Finance Corp. to lease the ten used jets for more than seven years starting in July, 2007, a spokeswoman said.

Delta hopes to sign a final rental agreement, which would require the U.S. Bankruptcy Court's approval, by Aug. 4. The carrier has been expanding its international routes as part of a recovery plan.
More at ajc.com.

249 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21602 times:

I thought these diddnt have the legs for ETOPS routes? and thats why AA was gettin rid of them, that and cuz of the leases...


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21602 times:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO  Sad

Those ex TWA 757 were half the reason I flew AA.

It will be sad to see them leave STL and AA.

Delta, take good care of them!!!

Anyone know the regs that will be going to DL?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21571 times:

I guess DL was full of it with those ads badmouthing CO's Trans-Atlantic 757s, I think it's time to bring back CO's ads saying "Imitation is the sincerest way of saying were better".


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21541 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
I think it's time to bring back CO's ads saying "Imitation is the sincerest way of saying were better".

Did they really have ad's like that? Wow. But its amazing how much crap they fling at each other being skyteam partners and all....



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21498 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
I guess DL was full of it with those ads badmouthing CO's Trans-Atlantic 757s, I think it's time to bring back CO's ads saying "Imitation is the sincerest way of saying were better".

Its marketing. Obviously you can't ever say never. I am sure there will even be a point where VS will have to buy twin engine aircraft. Despite that there is no way DL can use a 763 year round to cities like LIS, OSL, PRG, HAM, LYS and ARN. A smaller capacity aircraft provides DL with the right size aircraft to dot every I in Europe. Look at it as next summer DL will had 8-9 destinations.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21498 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Delta enters transatlantic 757 game with 10 of the ex-TW 757s equipped with Business Elite seats.

I don't think you can assume they will have BE just yet. If these planes are put on the Hawaii routes or many Latin American routes, they wouldn't necessarily need to have BE (though it would be nice).

I could see DL using the 757's to Hawaii to free up the 764's to fly higher volume European routes. Not to mention that some Hawaiian routes (like SLC-KOA) could use a smaller planes.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21498 times:

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2):
Delta, take good care of them!!!

Fat chance...  Wink

I think it's amazing to what extent DL is going to to copy CO's business model.

Problem is, their main hub is ATL, and 757s can't make Europe from there, so the 757s will be at JFK, where DL is growing but still has much less feed.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21498 times:

DL's ads were true this year...in the airline business, no one ever says "Never". They'll have to come up w/something else next year. I suspect some of the Ireland/UK routes will be replaced w/ 757s.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21450 times:

Interesting that DL may join the "757 accross the Atlantic CLub".....the feeling were mixed as to whether DL would use the 757 on some transatlantic or Hawaii routes as DL has a rather large 763/763ER/764ER fleet. In any case, I think that DL is making a smart move here - the 757s are very versatile aircraft that DL can utilize in various mission in its route network. Even if the 757s never fly JFK to Europe, the 757s can handle more "longer" domestic services......and these airplanes can replace some of the capacity lost to the retirement of the 762s, for example.

Leasing the 757s is the type of transaction that DL can accomplish at the present time.....the deal will probably be structured so that it does not affect Delta's finances or balance sheet too severely and the lease/acquisition of the 757s will not become a big deal in the court room as Delta hopes to fly out of bankruptcy. Its a smart move, all around, and ILFC likely made an attractive offer to DL to pick up these airplanes.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines plans to lease 10 extended-range jets

Cute, until recently, I guess we never thought of 757-200s as extended range airplanes......the reference almost makes the 752s sound like ULH airliners.

----

Question: I thought that AA had more than ten ex-TW 752s in their fleet, I know that a handful have gone to other operators in the past year or so.....how many ex-TW 752s remain? And do you think that these airplanes will find their way to DL as well?


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21407 times:

Please don't let Delta put these aircraft on HNL routes. OGG and KOA are okay, but not HNL.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5366 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 21407 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
the 757s are very versatile aircraft that DL can utilize in various mission in its route network

Which is why DL is one of the largest operators of 757s in the world (if not now THE largest, it's within a couple of planes between them and AA), with north of 130 them with the new additions.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21380 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I think it's amazing to what extent DL is going to to copy CO's business model.

They want to hit smaller cities in Europe with a smaller capacity aircraft. What choice do they have? Remember DL was flying to these cities with the A310 initially before CO did. The A310 just didn't really fit over all in DL's fleet. The 757 has developed into that aircraft. What other aircraft should they have chosen? Last I checked DL is the larger airline with more destinations, more seats and more flights than CO.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21299 times:

WT

Where are you getting the info regarding the Business Elite seats? I didn't read that in the article.

Are these extended range versions only feasible for extended range routes?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21299 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 12):
Remember DL was flying to these cities with the A310 initially before CO did.

SO CO has been flying Trans-Atlantic routes from the NY area before DL, what's the point? CO has been flying 757s across the Atlantic for 10 years, widebodies for 20 years.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21262 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Problem is, their main hub is ATL, and 757s can't make Europe from there, so the 757s will be at JFK, where DL is growing but still has much less feed.

Are you sure about that? I know that when these birds flew for TWA, they could make HNL-STL nonstop. Of course that's east bound, but I thought most of Europe was closer than that.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4764 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21262 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
SO CO has been flying Trans-Atlantic routes from the NY area before DL, what's the point? CO has been flying 757s across the Atlantic for 10 years, widebodies for 20 years.

Why is it always a PISSING match with you?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3311 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21262 times:

Hmm, 10 out of (I count 17 ex-TW AA birds on AirFleets).

Why not just go for the full lot and utilize them where needed? Seeing as how they're also PW-powered, there shouldn't be any problem with fleet integration.

But long-haul use? I think we might see some of the first PW 757s with winglets in the near future Big grin



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21222 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 13):
Are these extended range versions only feasible for extended range routes?

Its funny, from time to time, there are references to a 757-200ER model, even in aviation web-sites, although officially there is no such airplane. As far I can remember, the TW 757s are simply 757-200s that are ETOPS capable (TW did use the airplanes on some transatlantic and Hawaiian routes) but other then being rather new and rather capable versions of the 752, there is nothing unique about them. It would not be the first time that the press has confused some details concerning an airliner....my guess is that the ex-TW 752s can be used for ETOPS while DL's existing 752 fleet (except for the four ex-ATA birds?) is not.


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21222 times:

TWA had 27 757s at their peak. They were very nice aircraft.

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21173 times:

This will be a great addition to DL's fleet - these planes are also relatively new - I believe they were delivered starting in the late 1990s.

So let the guessing games begin! I'm going to start by guessing that we could see these planes on some of the following routes:

LAX-OGG
SLC-KOA
JFK-SNN
ATL-SNN
JFK-LIS
JFK-LIM
JFK-LYS

I'm sure they'll use a couple of these on thinner Hawaii routes, and the rest to Europe. Maybe a few for domestic expansion as well.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21149 times:

The AJC called them extended range aircraft, not me.

Does anyone know the MTOW of the ex-TW 757s? I thought all 757s have the same fuel tanks which should mean they all should have the same range, aside from engine performance issues and MTOW limits, right?

These are to be leased aircraft so there is no impact on DL’s balance sheet. Creditors and the court will agree to the transaction if DL can demonstrate the planes will generate sufficient revenue to be at least marginally profitable.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21149 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 10):
Please don't let Delta put these aircraft on HNL routes. OGG and KOA are okay, but not HNL.

P.S. This is not a poll.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Problem is, their main hub is ATL, and 757s can't make Europe from there, so the 757s will be at JFK, where DL is growing but still has much less feed.

Which makes the move a smart one. Put the 757's in JFK where the traffic is O/D, less airplane to fill. PMove the widebodies to ATL where the feed can fill a larger airplane.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
I could see DL using the 757's to Hawaii to free up the 764's to fly higher volume European routes. Not to mention that some Hawaiian routes (like SLC-KOA) could use a smaller planes.

I think you're spot on with that observation.


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21149 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21):
These are to be leased aircraft so there is no impact on DL’s balance sheet.

ILFC is leasing them to Delta for free?!? Woo hoo!!!

Sure there is an impact on Delta's balance sheet, right under the "Expenses" column...


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 21101 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):
Why is it always a PISSING match with you?

The DL is larger and the A310 was there first comment I thought was totaly un related thus I used a similiar comparison to show the arguments weakness.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 MastaHanky : I would say putting one on SLC-KOA is a given. I think a few people have mentioned starting SLC-LIH with one too. I've wondered if they'll give a shot
26 ArtieFufkin : I was just thinking there is plenty of room in Delta's system to incorporate 10 757s on longer range routes to free up 767-300s for Transatlantic serv
27 Alitalia744 : No, you started from the get-go. It's a constant argument over DL vs. CO that's getting old - seriously. In reality, your argument started with your
28 Post contains images RwSEA : Except for the fact that there is no "expenses" column on a balance sheet - that's on the income statement .
29 Dutchjet : Key word is "COULD".....Delta will use the airplanes where they are most effective........that may mean routes to Hawaii or Europe, or that may mean
30 MoMan : What happeend to the other TWA 757s. The ex-TWA birds are nicer than AA birds. Wish they would keep 'em around. It's been 2 years since I've been put
31 STT757 : How could I not point out how hypocritical DL is being by bashing the Trans-Altantic 757 product one mintue and then turning around and endorsing it,
32 DualQual : All of those are good possibilities however Lima is a -400 due to the amount of cargo revenue that is generated from there. I would anticipate it rem
33 Alphaomega : Where did you get that from? The RR-powered 752s can usually make it from Florida to London non-stop and with 213 pax...I'm sure DL's 752s are config
34 Mcg : Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21): These are to be leased aircraft so there is no impact on DL's balance sheet. ILFC is leasing them to Delta for free?
35 KYAir : Sorry, but you're confusing balance sheet with income statement. Since DL will not own the aircraft, it will not reflect on their balance sheet as ei
36 Ikramerica : Check again. You are wrong. CO has the most destinations of any airline in the world. True, but if you are then also talking into smaller cities, it
37 DeltaMIA : You mean to say you were simply stating that CO flew 757's across the Atlantic and are upset that it is possible DL will. Sorry I took a bit deeper a
38 Aanyc : Where in the article does it mention 757's? Could these then be something else other than the ex-TW 75's.
39 DAL767400ER : Different managements. Different managements. Um, there was this tiny, unimportant incident called 9/11 that might have had something to do with that
40 BlueShamu330s : You know what they say about immitation and flattery. So another member of the same alliance is taking a leaf out of another's book.... Bravo, I say.
41 STT757 : Im complaining about DL being hypocritical when it comes to Trans-Atlantic 757 product, one minute they bad mouth it in the NY papers and now they en
42 DeltaMIA : Sorry DL has 295 destinations to CO's 292. Show's different mindset of management. When DL's June numbers come out they will announce a profit for th
43 Dutchjet : The 757s can make it from Florida to London with a stop in Bangor.....while its still unclear what missions the new 757s will undertake, and whether
44 PeachAir : I read the AJC article twice, it says nothing about what type of A/C these are, just that they are "big jets". How do you know they are ex-TWA 757's?
45 RandyWaldron : The article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution makes no references to the type of aircrafts Delta will be leasing from ILFC. Delta has yet to issue
46 DAL767400ER : Just using pure logic. There are not enough used 763s on the market, and neither are 772ER. And we all know that DL won't be adding a new (or old) pl
47 Bucky707 : in an online chat with employees today, it was announced that Delta would be getting ex-AA/TWA 757s.
48 TWFirst : Didn't stop AA.
49 DAYflyer : I was thinking that they might use two of the 757 to free up a 777 for a transatlantic route. I know they still run a 777 or 767-300 between MCO-ATL s
50 Jbmitt : The widebodies from ATL to Florida are to improve fleet utilization. The planes would otherwise be sitting in Atlanta between long haul flights. Plane
51 DALMD88 : The 757 and 767 are staffed out of the same pool of pilots. It will be no different than 767 International/Domestic. Crews will bid what they can hol
52 RobertS975 : Another reason that you will probably continue to see these ATL-Florida 777 tags is for flight training purposes. It allows pilots to get "reps" with
53 1337Delta764 : The 777 is no longer used on ATL-MCO. In the fall schedules, it is a mix of 757s, 767-300s, and 767-400ERs.
54 BlueShamu330s : Many thanks - I knew someone would come to the rescue ! What you say does make it all the more possible that as well as Central America, DL could be
55 Dutchjet : Gents, the days of seeing 777s on ATL-FLorida runs are long over.......with DL's new ambitious longrange schedule, we will see an ATL-JFK run with th
56 Post contains images BlueShamu330s : And as I keep on saying to the other half, "Less is more!" Shamu
57 2travel2know : For ATL feeder purposes DL B757: except-summertime ATL-DUB and CVG-CGD; year-around ATL-LIS, ATL-BHX, ATL-GLA and CVG-AMS? Could a ATL-BFS or ATL-CWL
58 Fewsolarge : Jim Whitehurst, in a Delta employee chat today, said that they will likely have BE, and that deployment options on the table are Europe, Latin Americ
59 WorldTraveler : DL mgmt told their employees that the airplanes would have BE seats; I was advised of the facts beyond the AJC article by a DL employee. Because they
60 RoseFlyer : Out of curiousity on a hot summer day, will there be weight restrictions for the 757 on this route? SLC isn't at sea level and that is a long flight
61 RobertS975 : Whitehurst further stated that if the deal is approved by the BK trustees, deliveries would be between July 2007 and November 2007.
62 Haggis79 : so, if these airplanes are going to get BE seating, are they going to get an enhanced Eco cabin as well? Or, that said, in what state are the econs cu
63 Dutchjet : 1. Its reasonable to assume that DL is getting a good deal on the ten ex-TW/AA 752s. I dont think that DL is "paying extra" for the ETOPS capability.
64 Post contains links Wjcandee : Blah, blah, piss, moan. How about doing some SIMPLE research. You can find out almost anything about DL's operation, except for truly confidential tr
65 WorldTraveler : thanks, WJ. I check DL's BK site frequently just because you can find some of the info here. Usually, someone else (like the AJC) finds it 1st and I g
66 ArtieFufkin : Just for comparison, does anyone know how many 757s CO has devoted to their Trans Atlantic operation?
67 ArtieFufkin : Strike that. It looks like will have 41 in the Intl configuration by years end.
68 ArtieFufkin : Strike that. It looks like they will have 41 in the Intl configuration by years end.
69 STT757 : All 41 of their 757-200s are getting the Winglets and International Business First Cabins, their 17 757-300s will stay in Domestic configurations.
70 Positiverate : They'll like bid it with the 757/767 lines, but it will include international pay for international routes (I think it's an extra $4 per hour or some
71 MAH4546 : Delta has expressed interest in flying to Salvador da Bahia, the only market that Atlanta would likely be able to support for the near future. A 757
72 Orfsurfer : Narrows should not be used for Intl fights. Delta willl just cram them up, like they do in the states. Delta should take out 1 row of seating in all d
73 JFKLGANYC : "Didn't stop AA." Really? Well I bet AA wished it could have stopped the JFK terminal project. Instead they are leaving a proposed 57-gate terminal ha
74 Dimondan : AA is getting rid of them because they are unlike their own 757. Delta is picking them up because they are more like their 757's already in the fleet.
75 AA767400 : Because CO, and Newark are god for him. You will criticize anything that is not EWR, or CO. Because you are not the one paying the maintenance bill f
76 FutureFO : TW used to run them on LAX-SJU nonstop. So they do have the range and they can make western Europe. Sean
77 Ikramerica : True, and I was talking about 757s with BE/BF cabins being a "copy" action, not the use of 757s themselves. CO was the only full service, mainline ty
78 WorldTraveler : Engine maintenance costs are not making these planes albatrosses. AA has parked many of its own MD80s; where is the incompatibility on them. There ar
79 BigGSFO : In what way? Because DL and B6 are larger in terms of number of flight? Who cares as long as AA operates the flights they serve profitably. To plan f
80 Spartanmjf : And unlike US, NW, DL, and UA, AA has not sought bankruptcy protection to compensate for questionable business plans and histories. Even the heralded
81 DeltaMIA : The 295 is what DL is flying in JUL06. The number will grow by the end of the year with yet commenced destinations. DL averages 4,190 daily departure
82 Fewsolarge : How? Any facts to back up this claim? Pictures of AA shaking hands and accepting its own ass? BTW, in competing markets, that White Elephant terminal
83 Ha787 : does anyone know if delta will put they own interiors? then will the configuration be different than that of American airlines configuration?
84 Post contains images Cactus739 : This is not a poll.. Will these planes have IFE?
85 Post contains images 1337Delta764 : Enough with that quote already! Yes, you may think it is funny, but it is now getting annoying. They already have IFE, and if BusinessElite is added,
86 Post contains images DALOCCDtyDrctr : EXACTLY - DL was flying across the Atlantic with the L10 30 years ago - so whats your point? We're trying to talk about an ailing airline making step
87 Positiverate : Where did you get that information from?
88 1337Delta764 : Many users from Delta told me this. While the international 767-400ERs will be getting PTVs in economy, it is being reviewed for the 767-300ERs. [Edi
89 RoseFlyer : I would assume that AA would maintain ETOPS on these 757s since AA does operate routes with the 757 that require ETOPS. AA flies 757s to Hawaii and h
90 DALOCCDtyDrctr : That info was on our TechOps website not long ago in response to a question brought up in an emp forum - and there has been an increased presence on
91 Post contains images Alitalia744 : Not surprising given some of teh domestic -300s will be getting the Panasonic system. What's of interest however is did they figure a way to get them
92 Fleet Service : Really? Considering AA has three maintenance bases, one of which is staffed entirely by former TWA mechanics (Who are more than familiar with the PW
93 Post contains links ArtieFufkin : AA does not overhaul Pratts. Delta does http://www.aviationindustrygroup.com...engineoverhauldirect-1244-1250.pdf
94 DL Widget Head : DL overhauls AA's 757 Pratts and AA overhauls DL's Trents.
95 Post contains links and images Dl_mech : AA/TW never had the capability to do the work that DL does on 2037's. View Large View MediumPhoto © Gregg Stansbery
96 ATLAaron : Last I checked there is still a 777 flying ATL-LAX as well.
97 Silverbird757 : Well, all I can say is Delta can have the pooches............yeah the seating configuration is nice, but the engines are crap and have no power compar
98 AF022 : I looked around a bit on the site but couldn't find this information. How much do the winglets cost, and how much would you guess ILFC is helping?
99 B707Stu : All I can say is yuch. As much as I enjoy the 757 (up front only) domestically I can't stand it over the water. I flew BA, when they had service to BH
100 HBA : I won't flame you, but I've been in big jets in the same situation... I know its safe but I'm not nuts about it. I love the 757 and have always felt
101 PSU.DTW.SCE : Going back to Dutchjet's question, has AA maintained these aircraft to ETOPs standards since they have been integrated into the fleet? I can't answer
102 WorldTraveler : Discussion of winglets is item in 7F in The Terms of the Letter. No financial amounts are made public in these kinds of contracts because of competiti
103 Alitalia744 : Can you speak english or perhaps make a coherent sentence, wtf are you talking about here? Power isn't the only thing that make a good engine, look a
104 Aanyc : Actually it is inferior. I have had more problems with it than the original AA 757's. Not all the screens drop or you will see 1 or 2 of them droppin
105 PSU.DTW.SCE : Actually I would say NW's original 757's (5500 series) interiors are far worse than the interiors in AA's 757's. AA maintains the 757's well, but the
106 Daisywol : Ouch, gotcha on that one
107 Post contains images Fleet Service : IIRC the ETOPS on the TWA 57's has lapsed, they are basically domestic only with us.Up until last summer TW 57's operated the majority of the LGA-MCO
108 Positiverate : Dude...that was pretty funny. The REAL question is this: will they paint the widget on the winglets? 2:1 says they do...
109 Fleet Service : My money is on tri color like the tail.
110 Alitalia744 : Inferior in what sense? I've flown on hundreds of flights (CO 757s, DL/CO 737NGs) that have these and have rarely seen an issue. Perhaps the people a
111 FlyDreamliner : AA is getting rid of them as part of their system wide capacity reduction - because the ex-TWA birds are PW powered, vs the other AA being RR. CO's m
112 JFKLGANYC : "But AA does have the highest labor cost per ASM in the industry and its JFK and MIA terminal costs are the highest at major US hubs. These are the re
113 DeltaSFO : Those "crap" engines have lower fuel consumption and are quieter than the RB's. Delta has been flying 757s around--apparently with junk hanging on th
114 MoMan : I am scheduled to fly an ex-TWA 757 from DFW-STL next month. I'll be sure and take pictures.
115 WorldTraveler : What routes do the ex-TW 757s fly and do AA 757/767 pilots rotate freely between them?
116 Post contains links EWRCabincrew : According to the Great Circle Map website: http://gc.kls2.com/ ATL-SNN/LIS is pushing the limits of the 757 flying, like our EWR-TXL flight. I don't
117 Dutchjet : I cant help you with the route allocations, but I do know that the pilots flying the ex-TW 757s are a seperate group from those flying the airplanes
118 RwSEA : They fly back and forth between SEA and DFW quite a bit. I've taken that route many times in the last two years - 10x daily with 8 of those being 757
119 Bucky707 : The 757 has almost all push buttons, no toggle switches. You push it in and it latches there for on, push it again and it unlatches and comes back ou
120 Joeman : Seems like a decent demand for a 757ER, or range similar to the 707-320 Intercontinental exists more and more.
121 N62NA : Also consider that the TW 757 cockpits are different from the AA 757 cockpits. Edit: Ooops, I just saw that a few posts prior to mine covered this![E
122 WorldTraveler : Sadly, many products experience their best days after they are no longer produced. In DL's case, I think they are taking advantage of depressed lease
123 1337Delta764 : Are they MD-82s or MD-83s? If they are MD-82s, Delta could have them converted by Boeing to MD-88s. I wonder what would Delta call an MD-83 with an M
124 WorldTraveler : Boeing's website says they are 83s. DL's 1st MD80s were 82s which were converted, I believe.
125 Burnsie28 : This doesn't make sense, the TWA 757's have their switches the opposite of all other 757's.
126 DL Widget Head : and so has UA and NW. I guess they're not as "crappy" as some would believe.
127 Fleet Service : Quite a few of them are still in active service, the 80's that have been grounded aren't all TW ships.
128 UN_B732 : JFK-FRA is pretty weak especially in the winter (FRA used to be strong, but now that there is no India to keep it up, LH gets most of the pie) and cou
129 WorldTraveler : DL will not be a 757 on a competitive widebody market. Candidates are the same markets CO uses 757s out of EWR. FRA is a big cargo market; not sure wh
130 DALMD88 : The aircraft don't have to come to ATL very often. Most of the work could be done on the ramp in JFK or BOS where we have a hangar (for now). In BOS
131 LPLAspotter : Yeah, I was wondering if they would ever return to LIS. Had great flights with them into that airport when they were flying there with 312s. LPLAspot
132 Ikramerica : I was just expecting a thread for it. Considering how when B6 sneezes, we get a thread, you'd think DL becoming the world's largest airline in terms
133 Bobnwa : Someone better tell UA, DL and NW. Very well thought out statement on your part!!
134 WorldTraveler : DALMD88, glad you've settled into BOS. I had heard rumors that a deal w/ Massport was near and it seemed a given that DL would give up some gates in o
135 1337Delta764 : Nope, it is an MD-82 with a glass cockpit.
136 Dutchjet : The MD88 is actually an MD82 with a glass cockpit... very minor detail. My feeling is that the MD80s available on the second hand market (whether ex-
137 WorldTraveler : There are some MD88s potentially available - I believe in Spain that might make sense. DL has said several times that they are interested in the AS MD
138 Dutchjet : Aviaco, which was part of Iberia and then merged into Iberia did indeed have MD88s......IB is going all Airbus, these airplanes could become availabl
139 Dl757md : JFK is a category 1 mtc station for Delta - same category as ATL. I'm not going to kid you that they have the same capabilities as ATL but everything
140 WorldTraveler : Dl757md, I suspect that converting DL's 757s and 763s (non ETOPS) was considered as an option but it was determined that acquiring used aircraft was a
141 Dl757md : No. The difference is in the Lower Order Checks. A-check and below. A-checks are routinely performed at the gate. The only routine maintenance that's
142 Dutchjet : Are you really convinced that DL wants to add "a lot" of capacity back into the domestic market? I understand that DL has made signficant cuts in its
143 WorldTraveler : How long does an A check take and how often must it be done? Is B the next check and how often must it be done? I don't think DL wants to add a bunch
144 Bucky707 : The MD-90 is a common type and the pilots who fly it (the 88 pilots in SLC) just go thru a very short differences course. The SLC 88 pilots fly both
145 Dl757md : An A check on a 757 takes about 80 man hours. It is done on an overnight layover. I forget the exact interval. I think it's 500 hours or roughly once
146 WorldTraveler : excellent information, gentlemen. thank you.
147 Post contains images OttoPylit : Someone is jumping the gun. No one has yet said where the 757's will go. Could be Hawaii, could be Caribbean, could be Europe, or could stay in the U
148 Post contains images JDJ : OttoPylit, I agree with most of your comments but I'm betting that before signing on the dotted line DL will have a Plan A, B, and C for the 757's. I
149 ArtieFufkin : Otto, DL Mgt has already put out internal info that these AC will be fitted with BE seats and will be used on TA routes out of JFK. So ole Copy Cat D
150 ArtieFufkin : Plan A is to have DL start a flight academy out of EWR using a fleet of 250 Cessna 152's doing touch and go's all day long. You think EWR is crowded n
151 UN_B732 : hahaha. If this is true, it's going to very hypocritical of DL. Seems they jumped the gun in their marketing. -A
152 Dutchjet : And thank you for all turning another thread into a CO vs DL nightmare.....C vs D is the new A vs B at a.net? To the CO folks.....yes DL may be flying
153 Alitalia744 : Why is does every thread about Delta or Continental turn into a war? Seriously guys, can two airlines not co-exist? So CO has been flying 757s across
154 ArtieFufkin : Wise words. But they should be saved for a thread in which CO was actually bashed. This thread was all CO posters bashing Delta again.
155 Post contains images OttoPylit : Yea, I got that memo too, and just placed it into my INCOMING file, otherwise known as the shreddar. Then just pretend it never showed up. LOL HAHAHA
156 Bucky707 : Otto is right. Things are swinging Delta's way. I think we finally have the right management team in place and I believe we have a bright future. The
157 ArtieFufkin : I'm looking forward to the Jun report. Delta increased their ASM's 10% over May alone. That will do wonders for the CASM. I'm guesing non-fuel mainlin
158 WorldTraveler : Don't forget that the markets that are probably the most likely candidates for DL 757 service ARE EXACTLY the markets which CO has put 757s on - secon
159 Dutchjet : Finally something that makes sense.
160 DL Widget Head : Hear, hear!
161 MAH4546 : And Latin America/Caribbean, though I'm pretty sure they will take a comfortable number two in that market soon.
162 Artiefufkin : I'm not as sure of that as I was earlier. CO has without fanfare grown their Latin ASMs a huge amount as well. In terms of RPMs there is still a good
163 EWRCabincrew : Love for DL to come and bring 757s over the pond. I see it as another way to get to/from vacation, work or what have you. Nothing wrong with more carr
164 WorldTraveler : Consider also that DL's agreement is JUST for the FIRST 10 of AA/TW's 757s. According to AA's annual report, the first 10 757s are to be returned in t
165 Bucky707 : I have heard Delta is already in talks for the 9 remaining AA/TWA 757s.
166 Jbmitt : Does anybody know why DL didn't try and acquire the first 8 ex TWA birds when AA didn't renew the leases?
167 Dutchjet : Just guessing, DL was probably not in the financial position to be discussing new aircraft when those leases came due......things were pretty difficu
168 FlyPNS1 : Maybe other carriers see that the international market could be the first to crumble when things go bad. I strongly believe that AA is stockpiling ca
169 WorldTraveler : The bankruptcy court is not likely to not approve a deal unless the creditors also do not approve. Not sure if ILFC is one of DL's current creditors b
170 Bucky707 : I would further bet that Delta would not have entered into this deal if there was going to be serious objection to this deal from the creditors. I th
171 Panamair : All this discussion about DL's increasing of international flying to gigantic proportions masks the fact that DL is merely playing catch-up at this p
172 WorldTraveler : However, given that DL is a much larger airline than CO, DL's int'l revenues will be higher than CO's. However, AA and UA both still get alot more rev
173 WorldTraveler : I have confirmed with one of my sources at AA that these aircraft operate at 251K MTOW so they are easily capable of 9 hr flights or well over 4000 mi
174 MAH4546 : Delta will not be catching up with AA anytime soon. American's bread and butter is international flying, and while Delta will overtake AA to Europe (
175 WorldTraveler : Based on traffic reports so far this summer, DL is about 25% ahead of AA or any other US airline to Europe. I doubt if anyone will catch DL again over
176 AirMailer : WorldTraveler, Couldn't DL also convert say 20 or so of their existing 757s (prefferably ex-Song aircraft that they have added FC too) to be ETOPS? I
177 AirMailer : Just out of curosity, does anyone know who the first 8 ex-TW 757s went to? ... and who's doing the maintenance on them?
178 Jbmitt : 2 to Transmeridian, 1 to Blue Panorama, 3 to Uzbekistan Airways, 1 to Santa Barbara Airlines, 1 to Shanghai Airlines.
179 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Not that hard when 90% of CO's Mexico flights are ERJs . They should have done so these past weeks with the inaugural of their new routes that were n
180 AirMailer : Damn! That was fast! Thanks Jbmitt.
181 Panamair : Actually, DL overall has been larger than AA from an RPM perspective for a while now; however, AA did overtake DL in some specific months. Overall, t
182 WorldTraveler : AA reported 2 billion transatlantic RPMs for June. DL reported 2.7 billion transatlantic RPMs for the same period. DL is substantially larger and shou
183 ArtieFufkin : Just looking at AA/DL/CO and Latin America from the June reports RPM market share and growth. AA 52%......2.9% CO 28%......25.1% DL 21%......32.5% DL'
184 Alitalia744 : I think you mean June....
185 MAH4546 : I'm positive. Delta is almost done with their LatAm expansion. They will be adding a new LatAm gateway later this year, but it won't be more than 4-6
186 ArtieFufkin : I think he's including foreign carriers as well. AM/MX/AV etc.
187 Thering : What about B757-200 ORLANDO/SAO PAUO for Delta? Transbrasil used to fly this route, as well as SAO PAULO/BRASILIA/ORDLANDO.
188 ArtieFufkin : Both DL and AA tried that and it didn't work out.
189 RwSEA : Is that JFK, LAX, MCO, or FLL? I could see a lot more expansion at JFK, but FLL seems to make some sense. Even though others have failed, DL is so bi
190 MAH4546 : Delta's successful turn around aims to make money, not sending planes on money losing routes. As big as the market for Orlando-Brazil is, the yield i
191 WorldTraveler : No, I mean June. Traffic results are reported early in the following month. June traffic results for AA and DL were reported in the first week of Jul
192 MAH4546 : AA's facilities costs on the other end are significantly cheaper. AA flies as many as 5-7 daily flights to some South American and Caribbean airports
193 DAL767400ER : Could that be MCO, with the application for MCO-MEX being the first sign?
194 ArtieFufkin : AA's revenue advantage to Latin America is a given. Your failing to take into account the the huge cost advantage that Delta will have down the line.
195 MAH4546 : And you are falsely assuming that AA will be unable to lower costs, despite the fact that they are continuously taking steps to do so.
196 B777-700 : And how has any of this hurt YOU, personally?
197 AirMailer : Dang I've learned alot from this thread. Can we start the 'Who's the biggest in LatAm' argument over again; but this replace LatAm with Carribean. Wh
198 ArtieFufkin : Their non-fuel cost went up 1.4% this Quarter. So you can see how far those steps got them. Also, you would expect the RASM advantage to decline. As
199 ArtieFufkin : That would be hard to do as airlines lump Latin America, Caribbean, and Mexico all as "Latin America" in their traffic reports.
200 MAH4546 : True, that is unfortunate, but that does not discount the fact that they are still taking steps towards cutting costs. Unfortunately, that will take
201 DeltaDC9 : Harsh, even with the emoticon. It is not a dictatorship either. You guys beat me to it. I was worried no one pays attention in Accounting 201 or know
202 WorldTraveler : You apparently do not realize that AA is paying over $20 per passenger for facility costs at JFK and MIA; DL's costs at ATL are less than $4. IAH is
203 MAH4546 : AA's MIA costs are around $15. Not $20. And JFK is less than that. Delta has yet to enter an AA monopoly market in LatAm. Continental, which has stro
204 Post contains images WorldTraveler : DL and AA provide the only US carrier service to SCL. SCL apparently does well enough that DL adds extra frequencies above daily service in the winte
205 MAH4546 : Delta's ATL-SCL flights, like AA's own DFW-SCL flight, supports itself on cargo, and pretty much cargo alone. That's why I was surprised they added e
206 Alitalia744 : What's with the hard-on for Delta?
207 Floridaflyboy : I won't fly the 757 across the ocean. I love the 757, but it is just not comfortable enough for a long trip like that.
208 DB777 : The latest figure I have for MIA's costs was in print from the aviation director's speech somewhere and it was $16.90. That was 6 months to a year ag
209 Lt-AWACS : Then DL can kiss their BZE (and MID) business goodbye. CO is very, very popular at BZE with AA and TACA next up for most northbound traffic. Also IAH
210 ArtieFufkin : I don't see Delta having a problem with BZE. If CO can make BZE work (i assume their is no oil business there) , DL will have no problem. ATL has a ge
211 Lt-AWACS : CO makes BZE work with multiple 737 flights a day and against TACA flying to Houston daily as well. CO has advertising and deals with local BZE busine
212 ArtieFufkin : The population center of the US is Missouri, connections via IAH would force more than half the country to backtrack West to go East. You will have a
213 BigGSFO : Yet DL is downgrading the aircraft to RJ. So much for that enormous US reach.
214 Lt-AWACS : CO has made it work for over ten years with multiple flights, and Belizeans in the US live in LA, Houston, South Louisiana and Miami. All better conne
215 ArtieFufkin : Delta has not downgraded the flight. I would be very surprised if that occurred. Yet MID and CZM show the downgrades already? (And it's not like you'v
216 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : well it seems you care or you wouldn't have posted what you did, but it matters not, I just post the facts on BZE. We shall see about a downgrade. MAH
217 ArtieFufkin : You missed the point entirely. It does not matter how close the final leg is....LOL. It matters about the feeder leg as well. Is someone from DCA goin
218 Lt-AWACS : No you missed several points. DL doesn't advertise, and doesn't sell well on the route. They will not do well into an established market that way. The
219 ArtieFufkin : I concede everything you say! Point taken. You know more than I would about the adverstising in BZE. That does not move ATL 500 miles farther west. Ag
220 MAH4546 : MID and CZM show the downgrades already in res systems. ATL-MID becomes a CR7 on 28 August 2006. ATL-CZM becomes a CR7 on 9 September 2006. The good
221 Lt-AWACS : In some markets yes I would agree, but for the three discussed here specifically BZE no. The other Yucatan flights come down to connection timings at
222 ArtieFufkin : I tell you what I'm going to do. I will run some reports in the next few days. For various East Coast markets. BOS/LGA/PHL/DCA. I'm telling you right
223 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : well you do that and post them here. I will be waiting. It will be interesting on the 4x weekly DL flights versus 13-14 on CO at IAH. It is 7:38 am CE
224 MastaHanky : Geography will mean nothing to the person who is 1) unaware that DL flies to BZE, or 2) sees that CO is cheaper than DL. I just did a few random sear
225 ArtieFufkin : No I'm sorry I'm not going to continue this further. And I'm not running any reports for a wise guy. You don't get the minor point I'm making about g
226 Lt-AWACS : kid so now you are not going to "run the reports" LOL please, as I said before, or can you not read: The majority of demand does not come from the Nor
227 WorldTraveler : I have to laugh for making an argument that CO will win if they have lower fares (which is true) but that CO is also more profitable. Perhaps DL is no
228 Lt-AWACS : BZE is a different market than interior Mexico, as noted above. Try reading all the posts... CO makes a lot of money on BZE as does AA . DL has not cr
229 MAH4546 : I'm glad you associate decent loads with making a profit. Just because a flight has 70% loads doesn't mean the yields are anything to brag about. Bec
230 DeltaMIA : In the case of BZE and CZM both of these markets have been served for over a year. It isn't so much as underperforming as it is just going with the t
231 LipeGIG : Just one comment, OIL. Rio is a strong oil market with almost 2 million barrels a day. All the major American oil companies are in Rio (including Exx
232 RobertS975 : This thread seems to have gotten horribly off track. Getting back to the subject at hand, the ex-TWA 757s, the subject also came up in the Jim Whitehu
233 Dutchjet : If its MD88s, then its from IB, about a zillion posts ago I mentioned that AVIACO, an Iberia subsidiary that was fully merged into Iberia, had a MD88
234 WorldTraveler : The post was in reply to your comment that SCL existed solely for cargo. A LF of 70% means DL is carrying a lot more than cargo. And no passenger/com
235 DeltaMIA : Delta has made a name for themselves in the absence of RG. The JFK-GRU route started at the perfect time and DL has been by far the biggest beneficia
236 Post contains images Dutchjet : I too am confused (actually I like be confused, its rather comforting ).......but as I understand it, the first group of ex-TW 757s went to various o
237 Panamair : I agree DL's timing and luck with JFK-GRU couldn't have been better (with respect to the RG situation). But bookings were not that strong going in. J
238 Belizexp : I agree but I would hope that we can see nothing smaller then a E70 So your saying it better to go to IAH for a MIA flt. Also not all the O/D go west
239 WorldTraveler : Dutch, thanks for your response. In looking at Boeing's website, there were about 30 PW 757s delivered to ILFC or TWA in the late 90s. I just don't kn
240 Dutchjet : Thats a lot for transatlantic, I think that I will respectfully disagree with you on this......if DL goes with 757s on some transatlantic routes (and
241 RwSEA : Putting these planes on JFK-LAX/JFK-SFO (where UA and AA arguably offer a better product to premium pax) could be beneficial to DL if they equip them
242 Post contains images Lt-AWACS : No had you read any of the other posts you would see where I noted AA had Miami covered And the fact remains the main Belizean expat communities are
243 WorldTraveler : AA did not maintain ETOPS on these aircraft. DL has already said it will have to develop an ETOPS program, which means they probably will not fly ove
244 Airportmanager : wasnt Delta goign to supposedly use the 767 for UIO route?
245 Dutchjet : But do consider that the 41 752s also spend a lot of time on domestic segments....and rotating throughou the entire CO system. And this has been the
246 WorldTraveler : Dutch, I know what I am proposing seems very aggressive. I believe it will be shown that within 3 years, I am more right than wrong. Consider the foll
247 Dutchjet : Well, clearly you are convinced, lets see what Delta comes up and it they can make all of the new routes work?! And, lets hope for all airlines that
248 RwSEA : Question: Where would DL fly to Asia with the 767? While they are capable of reaching Japan, I'm not sure they could do it reliably from LAX, which c
249 WorldTraveler : The irony about Asia is that if DL still operated the PDX hub, the 767 could be flying just about all of the routes DL once operated from there and wo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA posted Tue Oct 17 2006 21:53:07 by FLALEFTY
Ex-TWA 757s For Delta - Winglets Possible? posted Sat Sep 2 2006 01:35:54 by 1337Delta764
Delta - Could PTVs Be Added To The Ex-TWA 757s? posted Sat Aug 12 2006 02:15:29 by 1337Delta764
Gulf Air To Acquire Jets For Short-haul Routes posted Sun Nov 9 2003 18:25:08 by GF-A330
Delta's Upcoming Ex-TWA 757s posted Tue Oct 24 2006 03:21:39 by 1337Delta764
Question About Delta's Ex-Song 757s posted Wed Aug 16 2006 02:22:43 by AT
Delta To Use T Concourse For International Flights posted Wed Mar 29 2006 18:54:55 by ATLIEN
JAL To Slash Another Four Int'l Routes! posted Thu Jan 19 2006 19:45:06 by Ktachiya
WSJ: CIT To Acquire 10 Undelivered Delta 737-800s posted Tue Dec 6 2005 15:30:50 by N328KF
Delta To Stay Solvent In 2005, No Need For Chp 11. posted Tue May 10 2005 13:43:55 by Juventus