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Why No Expansion At Stewart? (NY)  
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

I dont know the airport code but in NY why is there no expansion at Stewart? According to the airports website there are some requested routes to some popular destinations but no major carriers or LCC's. Why not?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5577 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

The code is SWF ... also known to readers of the personals ads as Single White Female  biggrin 
As for the lack of expansion, I don't believe there's one overriding reason; relatively poor highway access is a problem, and EWR's not that far off (and even ALB's within reasonable distance), but even so there should be at least some more service than now exists.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Isn't this one of the proposed sites for the NYC area "super-port"? It's in a thread from a while back.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Thread starter):
[/quote

[quote=HVNandrew,reply=2]Isn't this one of the proposed sites for the NYC area "super-port"? It's in a thread from a while back.

Not a "Super-port", by a regional reliever.

Stewart is in Orange County which is on the outter fringes of the Tri-State Metropolitan area, it's also in a relatively low income rural area. There's not much going on up there besides the Chopper makers, Im spend alot of time in the area as my Aunt lives in Ulster County.

There's really no reason to go up there, there's no jobs. Orange County is called the Irish paradise because of all the NYC Fire fighters who live there. They live there because it's cheap, there's no density to the population, no job centers, and not alot of income.

The population and more substanstial incomes are further South in Rockland and Westchester Counties, however those are relaitively close to EWR.

The Hudson Valley of NY and the Poconos of PA are virtually the same place, same distance from NYC.

[Edited 2006-07-15 05:51:39]

[Edited 2006-07-15 05:55:30]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSWF From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Stewart has and has had a number of issues with respect to expansion of service:

No access to the interstate highways and the local roads are clogged with all of the rural, low income people who have moved here from Rockland, Westchester and NYC who drive around in their SUVs, beemers, benzes and Four door pickup trucks who want to go shopping at the proposed mega mall with Macy's, Neiman-Marcus and Tiffany. Being resolved as we speak.

Poor marketing of the airport by the MTA, DOT and now National Express or whomever they sold the lease to.

High airfares.

Proximity. Stewart is too close to New York and Newark for the airlines to offer any level of service other than expensive hub connecting flights.

Folks like STT757 who think Orange County is on the same level as Ulster County. I spent a century working there one year, what a joke.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Quoting SWF" class=quote target=_blank>SWF (Reply 4):
No access to the interstate highways

Someone mentioned this before, it's right off of the NY State Thruway how much more conveinent to a highway can it get unless the planes land on the highway.

Quoting SWF" class=quote target=_blank>SWF (Reply 4):
Folks like STT757 who think Orange County is on the same level as Ulster County. I spent a century working there one year, what a joke.

I spend every Thanksgiving, Christmans, July 4th, Memorial Day and Labor Day weekend at my Aunt's home in Woodstock. I love Woodstock, mostly former Manhattan people like my aunt. The place is packed with tourists who are not savy enough to realize that the Woodstock festival did not take place in Woodstock but rather Bethel NY, Woodstock '94 (which I went to) was closer to Woodstock (Saugerties) than Bethel. No one goes to Bethel, everyone looking to relive Woodstock goes to Woodstock.

I've spent alot of time in Orange County, Wall Kill, Slatekill etc.. It's nice but there's just nothing to do up there, especially in the Winter. There's this winery I've been to (I think it's Slatekill), excellent Country Italian food and great wine!

The one thing intersting about SWF is the amount of deer roaming the airport, I was driving to the terminal dodging Fawns left and right.

The Newburgh airport Courtyard Marriott is nice, stayed there 2-3 times. There's also this Supermarket chain near the airport that is awesome, great pies. I think it was called Deans or something like that. Nice stuff.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

The State of NY wants to extend NJ Transit's Port Jervis line to SWF, it would offer service to Manhattan via Secaucus Transfer. However in exchange for the State of NY's support in NJ's efforts to build a another Hudson Tunnel for NJ Transit some of the new slots that would become available would be for NJ Transit/MTA's West of the Hudson service, thus allowing one seat service from NY Penn to SWF.

The plan to have MTA rail over a new Tappan Zee bridge has been dropped, instead they are going to work with NJ Transit on the new Hudson tunnel to provide one seat rides for Rockland and Orange County commuters.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4560 times:

While there isn't alot going on in Newburgh itself, there are plenty of people within a reasonable drive of SWF. I live in Danbury, CT which is only a a 45 minute ride away, There is also Westchester County NY, towns like Poughkeepsie, NY which are all very close to SWF. So the people are certainly there.

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4557 times:

SWF has a "master plan" created for when the airport picks up in service or when they get the money to start. I have read in a couple articles in the newspaper about expansion plans for the airport and they have all mentioned that new airlines are looking into SWF. I know that SWF is trying hard to get jet Blue on a regular basis instead of just diversions and charters.

As someone who lives in Poughkeepsie, 30 minutes away from SWF, I would not mind having service pick up at SWF. It would save two hours driving down to JFK/EWR/LGA.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineRiver747 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 4549 times:

A long, long time ago (I think it was in the 80s) ZAS Airline of Egypt used to fly B707Fs on the AMS-SWF route.

User currently offlineSWF From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Newburgh is finally believing that George Washington is not coming back and have stopped waiting. Real estate values are through the roof, especially in the historic district and desirable suburbs. New SUNY campus in the works and lots of business expansion. Dean's is not here.

My point before was that the traffic between the Thruway and I84 is horrendous and is only worsening by the day. The state is connecting the interstates and making a direct connection to the airport.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

Quoting SWF (Reply 10):
Dean's is not here.

I think it's called Adams then?

Quoting SWF (Reply 10):
traffic between the Thruway and I84 is horrendous and is only worsening by the day

The only bad traffic spot in the area is at Harrimans for the outlets, that can be awfull!



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

In the print edition of today's Star Ledger there's a graph showing the airports the Port Authority is looking at investing in to be reliever airports, they are..

Newburgh/Stewart
Trenton/Mercer
Allentown/Bethelhem.

IMO they should invest in both Newburgh and Trenton/Mercer, both are almost the exact same distance from Manhattan. Newburgh/Stewart is about 55 miles North/Northwest off the NY State Thruway and Trenton/Mercer airport is about 50 miles Southwest of Manhattan off I-95.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/ledger/per...025667241710.xml&coll=1&thispage=1



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Newburgh/Stewart is about 55 miles North/Northwest off the NY State Thruway and Trenton/Mercer airport is about 50 miles Southwest of Manhattan off I-95.

Westchester County Airport is convenient to many New York flyers, in New York City, escpecially in the northern suburbs. HPN is only 32 miles or 44 minutes from Midtown Manhattan.

West Islip also has some potential. ISP could work well once Long Island Railroad - Grand Central rail link is up and running. West Islip also has ferry service to Bridgeport, CT and New London, CT. ISP doesn't work too well for most city dwellers outside of Brooklyn and Queens. It is 50 miles from Midtown Manhattan.

Are either of these airports near capacity?


User currently offlineDrnate00 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Allegiant serves SWF from Sanford, I think it is 5 days a week, but I could be wrong on the frequency.

[Edited 2006-07-16 19:46:40]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Westchester and West Islip are not being considered for various reasons (room for growth for instance, conveinance to rail/highways), the options being looked at are West Trenton, Allentown and Newburgh/Stewart.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 8):
I know that SWF is trying hard to get jet Blue on a regular basis

Although not probable, I would like to see jetBlue service at SWF. Service at SWF, even if only to JFK, would be more convenient than driving to JFK for many fliers in Putnam, Dutchess, and Orange counties. In addition, many fliers in southern New York, but west of the Hudson river and many fliers south of Albany but over 1 1/2 hours from Manhattan, would gain access to the jetBlue network.

I think jetblue service at SWF could be viable and beneificial for jetBlue and the SWF market. If SWF (the current favorite), becomes a reliever airport for NYC, it could be a good way for jetBlue to get a foothold at the next NYC aiport.

SWF used to have a flight to EWR, although it did go on to RDU. The flight was with Southeast Airlines, the airline eventually failed, but does anyone know how well/poorly the route did?

[Edited 2006-07-17 06:42:18]

[Edited 2006-07-17 06:45:22]

User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 16):
SWF used to have a flight to EWR

American Eagle and TWA Express also flew SWF-JFK in the early 90's for a short time.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineSpinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

I can't imagine the SWF-EWR route on Southeast did very well at all. I mean you could drive it easily in under 2 hours, so what's the point, I guess to connect to an international flight, but the flights weren't even offered on a daily basis.

Interstate Jet also used to serve SWF-ABE for a short while, the flight continued on to LAS I believe.

I would love to see more choices at SWF. The long term parking rates at JFK have gone up to $15 a day, which makes getting a cheap weekend flight on jetBlue a little more expensive....................not to mention how mad I was when I got sent to the overflow long term parking, so you dont' get to actually use the air train, you have to use a crappy bus, and then it rained on my return and my car was like an island in a lake that I had to trudge through.

Air Tran has started service to HPN. I'm not sure if it has been successfull for them or not, I've gotten some great deals for my father to Orlando on them, and seen some great connecting rates through Atlanta for myself. The thing about HPN that is good for me, is I can actually get a ride there from a friend. No one wants to drive you to JFK, and getting a shuttle is close to $100 roundtrip.


User currently offlineAAFlyer2006 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 18):
I can't imagine the SWF-EWR route on Southeast did very well

They marketted it as SWF to RDU, however it was actually a flght to that stopped in EWR and then went on to RDU. The flight was on an all first class plane for $125 each way. I think the whole airline was all first class.

I hear that SWF is somewhat conveniant to Northern NJ.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16693 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

Quoting AAFlyer2006 (Reply 19):
I hear that SWF is somewhat conveniant to Northern NJ.

Northern NJ is closer to SWF than Manhattan because the Garden State Parkway and Route 17 connect with the NY State Thruway near Suffern closer to SWF, also you don't have to go over any bridges to get to SWF from NJ where if your coming from Westchester or NYC you have to go over the Tappan Zee which is a nightmare at rushhour.

The congestion on the NY State Thruway especially near the Tappan Zee Bridge is the reason why the State of NY wants to build a connection from SWF to NJ Transit's Port Jervis line, it would allow passengers to connect from Manhattan to SWF via Secaucus Jct. Eventually when the new Hudson rail tunnel between NJ and NYC is complete they would be able to offer a one seat ride from NY Penn to SWF. Untill then travelers would have to transfer at Secaucus Jct or ride all the way to Hoboken and transfer to the PATH or ferry.

http://www.njtransit.com/images/railmap06.jpg



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

I have flown into SWF three times...twice on AA and once on DL. The AA flights were from Chicago and the DL from Cincinati. I had to to to Wappinger Falls in January. Since Stewart is also an Air Force Base the runways were always clear, even in snowy weather.

User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

"Someone mentioned this before, it's right off of the NY State Thruway how much more conveinent to a highway can it get unless the planes land on the highway."

Couldn't agree with you more! Rare that that happens, huh?

Part of the problem with SWF is the fact that it's too damn far from the mass populous. JFK/LGA/EWR make up the core of the air traffic in the region. Relieving those airports are HPN in Westchester and ISP on Long Island on a ring 30-40 miles out.

JFK, LGA are in the city and EWR is on the immediate outskirts of the city line. This give these airports access to the biggest population base.

HPN and ISP are immersed in the immediate suburban areas of NY giving both access to a large pool of people including some of the weathliest areas in the world.

SWF doesn't have either going for it. It's a 90-minute ride from the city. And while Orange County has been growing quickly as of late, it is still rather rural with very little industry. If you cast a larger net from the airport, it also serves the Catskill region. While this area is one of the more beautiful areas in NY State, it is economically depressed and has been for some time.

The good news is, with few NIMBYs, good highway access, a possible rail link, a long runway, and plenty of real estate, SWF is positioned to become the next large NY-area airport.

The bad news is that SWF won't flourish until the closer-in airports are at capacity. ISP really isn't a factor because it's out on Long Island and serves a different area from potential SWF service. But HPN, LGA, and EWR are all filled up. None can handle significant growth.

The curve ball in this equation is Kennedy. Out of a 24 hr day, it is congested for about 4 hours in the late afternoon. With lots of real estate and a good runway layout, it can handle a good amount of growth for years to come. Most growth in the area has been at JFK as of late . . . and this comes at the expense of SWF.

PJ

PJ


User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Quoting PJ:
The bad news is that SWF won't flourish until the closer-in airports are at capacity. ISP really isn't a factor because it's out on Long Island and serves a different area from potential SWF service. But HPN, LGA, and EWR are all filled up. None can handle significant growth.

Plus ISP is closing in at its maximum efficiency and has no room to expand. Also as you said it caters to the LI audience.



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12879 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Don't forget that SWF is also an NY Air Guard base, hosting a number of C-5A's, so they can handle just about any aircraft, even a full A-380. It has been used from time to time for aircraft in emergencies. They do have a small, modern terminal, parking and close access to I-84, I-87 (NY Thruway) for direct acccess to the NYC Metro area, Northern New Jersey, NE Pennsylvania, and CT.
On a previous thread on SWF, I suggested that perhaps SWF ought to be used more for freight aircraft, or large charters, releving EWR and JFK. Charter groups can use buses to go to/from the airport. The lower levels of traffic as to/from JFK would also be an advantage for freighters.


25 Post contains links and images STT757 : The State of NY wants to connect Stewart airport to NJ Transit's Port Jervis rail line, this they hope would be the catalyst to convince people from d
26 JFKLGANYC : On another note, didnt NJ Transit just inagurate Penn Station-Atlantic City service?? PJ
27 STT757 : Starts next next Summer, the route is NY Penn-Philadelphia-Atlantic City. The trip will take two hours, they are going to offer a food service car. B
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