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What's Up With These B757 Doors?  
User currently offlineJetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 559 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13980 times:

Just a curious question...

USP has B757Fs with doors that open inwards and inside, whereas pax configured B757s open outwards... any reason why they open inwards? Also... how would the evacuation slide inflate???


UPS B757F with door opening inside...


DHL B757F - assume its a converted pax B757 with regular door...


Delta B757 open door...

[Edited 2006-07-16 00:29:12]

[Edited 2006-07-16 00:32:51]


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13980 times:

Bad photos...



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineJetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 559 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13965 times:

yeah, can't get the photos to post...

here are the links...

UPS 757F

DHL 757F

DELTA 757



"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineBhxforever From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13942 times:

Don't know if this makes any difference, but on the UPS 757 shown above the door is much closer to the flight deck than the other two photos..

User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13880 times:

Quoting Bhxforever (Reply 3):
but on the UPS 757 shown above the door is much closer to the flight deck than the other two photos..

Yeah, and it's also much narrower. or so it seems. Probably it's just a crew hatch: obviously UPS doesn't have the problem of loading and offloading pax as quickly as possible, so it doesn't need wide doors. And there's probably some DOT rule that doesn't make slides compulsory on freight airliners.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13833 times:

The DHL 757 is a converted passenger plane so it has a standard LH main door...same with the Delta 757. The UPS 757 is only built for hauling cargo. It has no other doors and only this one which is much smaller then the standard door as only the two pilots use it. As far as the slide on the UPS 757, it dosn't have one. The crew can go out cockpit windows, or I'd guess down a escape rope near the door.


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Photo © Royal S King


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Photo © Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography


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Photo © Justin Cederholm


[Edited 2006-07-16 01:06:58]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 559 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13789 times:

Thanks guys! I thought a jet this size would require a slide regardless... good luck grappling down a rope!!


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13377 times:

Quoting JetMARC (Reply 2):
can't get the photos to post...

To get the photos to display like EMBQA has them, you type (photoid:0277050), where the number is the photo id, and replacing "(" and ")" with "<" and ">"...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King



Do any other freight models of airliners have a different door set up to the passenger model, like with the 757?

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13111 times:

The UPS B757 is a PF version.Hence only one Door on the LH side only & opens Inwards.
The DHL B757 is a SF [Pax converted Freighter,hence has all door opening outside.
The Delta B757 is the Pax Version hence same as DHL one above.

The Crew on PFs use the Crew Escape Ropes in the Cockpit.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlightShadow From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 990 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12253 times:

Is that UPS 757F configured something like this, while the others are configured like pax planes I wonder?


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Photo © Je89 W.


[Edited 2006-07-16 20:06:14]


"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11856 times:

Has to do with UPS's being a PF, while DHL's was converted from pax to SF, and no change to the door's position was made. Another example is Ethiopian's PF:


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Photo © Werner Horvath



Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 9):
Is that UPS 757F configured something like this, while the others are configured like pax planes I wonder?

This is the product of Precision Conversions, and if I am not mistaken, is the first or second example from that company. Ethiopian is currently having one of its pax 757s converted at Precision, and will come out as the one above, or that of Icelandic:


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Photo © Royal S King



Notice that precisions' work also includes flattening out the windows, as shown by this example.


User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

I think the door is closer to the cockpit so there is enough space for anther palet but still leaving the crew enough space to get to an exit. The doors are smaller as it reduces weight, its the same on the 747F's aswell. As to why it opens inward, i have no idea lol.

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8683 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11294 times:

I've noticed that on UPS 757's too. Very unique a/c.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineJetset7E7 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1090 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11095 times:

On the PF version they only have one door on them. Shown below on FI 752PF TF-CIB. Most of the DHL one's are ex British Airways pax versions, and still have all 8 exits visible, although not all are in use.

Port side...

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King



Starboard side:

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Photo © Royal S King



Mark



Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

Quoting Jetset7E7 (Reply 13):

The 757 is actually pretty smart without the Doors lol. The aircraft look so smooth

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10708 times:

Quoting Bhxforever (Reply 3):
on the UPS 757 shown above the door is much closer to the flight deck

From what I remember, the B757PF has been designed this way to allow it to carry one or two more containers compared to the basic design.


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3085 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9860 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
The DHL 757 is a converted passenger plane so it has a standard LH main door...same with the Delta 757. The UPS 757 is only built for hauling cargo

Most of the conversions you can re-skin the old door and have a new one placed farther forward now. It all depends on how much you want to spend on the conversion and how valuable that half pallet position is to you that you can gain.

I believe the DHL ones are early conversions and the fastest way to certification was to just cut a door and go. At least that is what the DHL guys told me when we had a 2 planes flying for them in Europe.

Some neat trivia: here were a couple of DHL planes that were scrapped because they cut the cargo door to far forward at conversion.


GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineQantasA380 From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 212 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9312 times:

I notice in the DHL photo that there is a notice on the inside of the door that says "Not an emergency exit" - if it's a standard size door and has a slide, why would it not be usable as an emergency exit??


Virgin Blue - what colour's RED????
User currently offlineLotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 17):
why would it not be usable as an emergency exit

There is a 9G barrier net behind the door that is designed to extend forward during a crash landing, blocking the door. The cockpit windows are the emergency exits in this case.

This is the advantage of a solid 9G barrier, it will not block the door.

Lotsamiles


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 16):

Some neat trivia: here were a couple of DHL planes that were scrapped because they cut the cargo door to far forward at conversion.

Ouch!

Anyone know what "amenities" freighter aircraft have? Of course there is a lav, but is there a galley? Rest areas, or jump seats?

I remember when I was a kid, a Flying Tigers 747 was in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, bringing in some cargo - could have been aid, or some other shipment it brought during the communist government. I was priviledged to have someone at Ethiopian that arranged a visit to the aircraft on the tarmac, where me and my siblings went in to the cockpit and got to experience the jumbo jet. This was way before my first flight on a 74x, and it was so neat! The main deck was empty, and went into the aircraft through a door at that level, then up a set of ladders to the upper deck which was configured with seats - it was a 742, and was full of people who were sleeping. No idea who these people were - staff, folks that had to do something with the shipment etc. The aircraft was at ADD for the afternoon into the evening, enough time for us to get in and look around. The American crew were very welcoming, had us sit at their seats and look around - as you can imagine, a major event for me as a young kid!

Aside from nostaligia et al, what does UPS use its upper deck for? Is it configured for crew rest, or is it also used to put up small shipments? Or is it simply empty in order to save on weight?


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 17):
I notice in the DHL photo that there is a notice on the inside of the door that says "Not an emergency exit" - if it's a standard size door and has a slide, why would it not be usable as an emergency exit??

That is because this particular conversion has a 9G barrier net instead of a rigid bulkhead. The cockpit door becomes the smoke barrier from the cargo compartment and they cannot exit through that door and the fact that the net needs an area to expand in case of a crash so that exit may be unusable. Therefore alternate exits are needed per the regs. These happen to be the LH and RH #2 windows which become the primary crew exits. That is why their perimeters are painted red and there is an external handle to access from outside.

In the case of a rigid bulkhead, this becomes the smoke barrier and does not move in a crash so it can be closer to the flight deck bulkhead and the are ahead of it is usable crew space.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 16):
Most of the conversions you can re-skin the old door and have a new one placed farther forward now. It all depends on how much you want to spend on the conversion and how valuable that half pallet position is to you that you can gain.

I believe the DHL ones are early conversions and the fastest way to certification was to just cut a door and go. At least that is what the DHL guys told me when we had a 2 planes flying for them in Europe.

Some neat trivia: here were a couple of DHL planes that were scrapped because they cut the cargo door to far forward at conversion.

Only the Precision Conversions STC installs a small crew door similar to Boeings. In addition they skin over both the original L1/R1 and L4/R4 doors. The LR/R2 and any exit door cutouts can still be seen on these aircraft. They are just deactivated.

http://www.precisionconversions.com/



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineLotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 16):
Some neat trivia: here were a couple of DHL planes that were scrapped because they cut the cargo door to far forward at conversion.

Do you have info on which aircraft or which mod center? DHL 757's were converted at several locations, all under the Boeing program.

I have searched my fleet database (one of the major ones) and cannot find any info.

Thanks,
Lotsamiles


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

According to Precision Conversions, both left doors are removed (deleted), while those on the right are deactivated. While the front left is replaced by a new door, the one at the back is simply "deleted" - why not just deactivate it?


And here's an answer to a post-Precision 757 cockpit:

http://www.precisionconversions.com/images/product_large_757_cockpit.jpg

[Edited 2006-07-17 03:55:12]

[Edited 2006-07-17 03:55:54]

User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

Thanks very much for the picture ETStar - that is very informative! Is that the general layout of the Boeing built 757-200PF as well then?

I had a poke around Precision's website, and this page has some interesting flash animations of the conversion process on it:

http://www.precisionconversions.com/html/engineering.html

Quoting ETStar (Reply 22):
According to Precision Conversions, both left doors are removed (deleted), while those on the right are deactivated.

Where does it say that? The only information I could find was on the image of the general layout of the aircraft, which says that L1/R1 are deleted, L2/R2 are deactivated, and L4/R4 are deleted. Either way, it is still odd...



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8596 times:

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 23):
Thanks very much for the picture ETStar - that is very informative! Is that the general layout of the Boeing built 757-200PF as well
then?

Glad you liked it... I also found it to be very informative, but I presume this area is configured depending on the client's requirements - how many times would the four extra seats be taken up while the aircraft is operated, for example. But then again, it also has me wondering about situations where, for example, such seats would be very well used by deadheading pilots - for example, with ET operating the 75F into many cities in Europe, could use these seats to transport deadheaders. I don't know, however, whether this is the normal config of Boeing's out of factory B75Fs.

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 23):

Where does it say that? The only information I could find was on the image of the general layout of the aircraft, which says that L1/R1 are deleted, L2/R2 are deactivated, and L4/R4 are deleted. Either way, it is still odd...

The very picture whose link you provided is where I got the information from, and I found it to be very odd as well. Oh hold on, never mind, I had not seen that the notes had both L4 & R4, had thought it was only L4 given where the label is. Even so, why the L2/R2s are only deactivated is interesting.


25 HAWK21M : Which ones. Any details. regds MEL
26 Post contains links and images Greasespot : this was cockpit chat when I ws traveling from Copenhagen to Stanstead to fix one of our B727's. http://www.pemcoaviationgroup.com/757brochureFINAL.p
27 HAWK21M : Ok.Cause i tried checking on same at work.Could not find Any reference. regds MEL
28 TZTriStar500 : Pemco has no STC, this is nothing but a proposal. They currently have no plans to develop it if ever.
29 HAWK21M : Is that True.Pemco has not done any Mods yet. regds MEL
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