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Leahy Presents A350XWB At Farnborough  
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28877 times:

John Leahy is currently doing his presentation at Farnborough on the new A350.

He's said some remarkable thinks so far!

Go and see him live at: www.airbus.com

That redone A350 he's presenting is some increadible plane indeed: it makes the 787 look like a conservative design!

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:19:48]

258 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28877 times:

Thanks for the info regarding the conference Slz396.

And the name is A350 XWB


User currently onlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28780 times:

let's wait and see!!!

אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 90
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28690 times:

Other points from the live media conference;

- Specifications are complete
- 100 Days until Industrial Launch (early October)
- Service Entry target by Mid 2012
- Seeking a second engine supplier
- Engine thrusts are 75,000lbs; 87,000lbs and 95,000lbs respectively

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28690 times:

I cant get the link to work.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):

If its a 773 sized plane it will have to be very light indeed.

User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28600 times:

One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28600 times:

I've seen the entire presentation online and although you have to be careful with this kind of company organized presentations, the A350XWB (in 3 versions) has been extensively compared to both the 787(-8/-9/-10) and 777(-300) and looks like it is beating them on weight per seat, fuelburn per seat, and more importantly CASM: the smallest margin I've heard was that of the 787-8 over the A350-800 (2%) and the biggest difference was that of the A350-1000 vs the 777-300ER: a whopping 25%.

User currently offlineEclipz From France, joined Jun 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28600 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Thread starter):
it makes the 787 look like a conservative design!

don't you think it's a bit too much ? the 787 is a great technological step. what is so new in the XWB design ?

moreover, i guess the A350 won't use composite for the fuselage... so how can they have a lower weight per seat ?

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:03:16]

[Edited 2006-07-17 13:06:22]

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28525 times:

Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 6):
One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!

Could someone post a pic?

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28454 times:

Streiff says it won't be a 100% composite fuselage.

User currently offlineBigSky123 From Slovenia, joined Dec 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28454 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 6):
One thing is for sure: the A350XWB is one cool looking plane!

Could someone post a pic?

There was a video playing during Leahy's presentation. There will be more pics on airbus' website i suppose.

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28258 times:

He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

I really can't believe they have engineered this enough in the given time, to be able to come up with such a craft, although I am not denying that such a craft may be possible.


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28167 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
100 Days until Industrial Launch (early October)

Means that we won't see any new A350 orders in the next couple of months. Will be interesting to see if there will be many new B787 orders. If Airbus has really firmed up the specs it will probably delay a couple of campaigns.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 10):
Streiff says it won't be a 100% composite fuselage.

Which might be a very clever move. However, until we actually learn a bit more about it we will probably have to refrain from speculating about what they are actually going to do. As a side-note: 50% composite, 20% aluminum, 15% titanium, 10% steel, 5% other - that's more or less the materials mix for the 787.

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineEclipz From France, joined Jun 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28061 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

I really can't believe they have engineered this enough in the given time, to be able to come up with such a craft, although I am not denying that such a craft may be possible.


Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 28061 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
He has got to say something to stop all the airlines who are about to order 787 or 777.

If an airline needs planes sooner than 2012, then the 777 will still sell.

User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27951 times:

aaagh - can't find any images... can anyone post a pic?

cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineKLMcedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27833 times:

They said the jury's still out wether it'll be bleed or no-bleed engine, but there's a tendency towards bleed as they are still not convinced of the advantages of bleedless engines.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27833 times:

Mr. Williams said there is no compelling case for adopting bleedless engine technology, and Mr. Leahy chimed-in with concern about increased maintenance costs using such a system.

User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27707 times:

Apparently it's commonly accepted by the Airbus folks to call it the A350X,
instead of adding the XWB all the time. I guess we can finally wave off the
A370 name now!

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27448 times:

Looks like the A350XWB is indeed sending the T7 packing (25% lower CASM) and according to what we've seen at the presentation, is also on a par with the 787 (CASM was said to be 2% lower).

List price of this 'golden airplane' according to Mr. Streiff is $185M for the -800.

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27312 times:

Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13):
Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...

Yes I agree with you and that is my point.

I hope the salesman is not too far ahead of the engineers or Airbus will suffer more credibility problems. Investors are conservative people as are most airlines, when it comes to the huge investment necessary to purchase a new fleet. IMO Leahy would be better off keeping it low key.
Didn't an American President once say; "speak softly & carry a big stick" ! I think this is what Airbus should be doing; talking conservatively and engineering a masterpiece.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30619 posts, RR: 84
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27197 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I await with genuine interest the specifications as they are released.

And remember, the 777 still has six or more years, at a minimum, to record orders. Airlines that need capacity now (SQ, QR, EK, AC, AI, etc.) are all choosing the 777 rather then wait for the 787 or A350.

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27071 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
And remember, the 777 still has six or more years, at a minimum, to record orders

I think that what you will see is orders will soon start to become rarer for the 777, since no airline will want to be buying a plane which in 4 to 5 years after delivery is considered old and thirsty technology. Just look at the dip A330 orders took once the 787 established itself as clearly superior product for the future.

User currently offlineTancrede From Finland, joined May 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 26966 times:

Quoting Eclipz (Reply 13):
Airbus' reputation is currently low... i don't think they can lie or nobody will trust them anymore... they make mistakes but they are not stupid...

At the end, it could be that going through this difficult time forced Airbus to come with the ultimate product that will overtake the T7 and the 787 altogether. I think that we should be optimist.  cheerful 

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 26764 times:

Sombody please post a pic!

25 Post contains links MBJ2000 : RR to develop engine for A350X: http://today.reuters.com/stocks/Quot...URING-ROLLSROYCE-URGENT.XML&rpc=66
26 Post contains links Astuteman : As I understand it, that's why a raft of senior engineers were called out of retirement by Airbus - as a "sanity check" WSJ: Airbus Redesigns The A35
27 Slz396 : I've seen the images of the A350XWB during Mr Leahy's presentation and really the best way to describe it is a wider A330 with 787 style wings. Mr Lea
28 RAPCON : I'm a huge Airbus fan, but the after the announcement, I'm still a bit skeptical. Why? Well for starters: (1) Look at the source--Leahy. No credibili
29 Eclipz : I really really hope Leahy is not too optimistic but realistic... yes, they should be careful but they also have to stop the bleeding... they have to
30 MBJ2000 : From the data so far I guess it won't be a competitor to the 787-3 since a shorter version (A350-700?) would have a higher OEW. So, no A300 replacemen
31 VirginFlyer : That is good to hear, given the sloping walls from the original Airbus widebody were the subject of a fair bit of criticism. I was under the impressi
32 Slz396 : Although Mr Streiff said in response to a question from the audience, the A350 will NOT be entirely composite (which was a silly question really, bec
33 Astuteman : Composites or "modern materials"? (serious question...) Regards
34 Post contains links Leelaw : Farnborough: Airbus provides details of new A350 Xtra Wide Body (XWB) family of long-range twinjets Airbus has today unveiled its revamp of its A350 a
35 Post contains links and images AutoThrust : Da*n thats what im saying the whole time. The A380 has already the straightest walls so it was near Airbus would follow this with the new A350XBW. 
36 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Info on the A350X now on Airbus's website: http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/a350_xwb/index.html Blurb also mentions an A350R (ULR) and A
37 Astuteman : Well spotted Leelaw. Couple of interesting quotes:- The A350 XWB will comprise three aircraft: A 314-seater, the A350-900, to enter service mid-2012,
38 BA380 : the obvious question: how wide will the xtra wide cabin be...?
39 Post contains images SNATH : Thanks for the link! I'll probably be bashed for this, but doesn't it look very B787-ish, or is it just me? Tony [Edited 2006-07-17 14:28:51][Edited
40 Slz396 : 5 inches wider than the 787 cabin.
41 Post contains images Astuteman : It does, doesn't it.... only just a BIT wider ...
42 Slz396 : Seems like the Airbus.com site is having to cope with extremely high demand, as them announcing this A350XWB is undoubtedly the news of the day from t
43 VirginFlyer : That is somewhat unexpected. I wonder if it will be offered from the outset, or whether it is just an indication of something they will do further do
44 Eclipz : it looks like a twin with curved winglets
45 Scbriml : I can't believe they'll launch the freighter at the same time as the pax version (has that ever happened before?) If they are indeed launching the A3
46 Post contains images SNATH : I can't wait for Randy's blog entry. Tony
47 Post contains images EI321 : Cant wait to see what Randy comes up with in his next blog
48 Post contains images AutoThrust : Looks outstanding, just the little picture indeed does it look like the 787. But I'm sure when we will see better images it will look pretty differen
49 Parapente : Where does this leave the Trent 900?-Other than on the scrapheap. Clearly this new (it must be new) engine will be far more efficient than the "old" 9
50 Scouseflyer : I reckon , if offerd from the begining, any 359F may well be EIS at around 2014/5 so the A330F will have 4 or 5 years of the market to itself and the
51 Post contains images Scbriml : If it changes as much as the 787 did from first renditions, then it won't look much like those pictures. Nice to see the end of the upward sloping re
52 Eclipz : easy : "our products are better" with a lot of marketing comments around this sentence
53 Astuteman : Based on the engine thrust specifications, it looks like The A350X-800 is a 270-seat 8500Nm aircraft of c. 540 000lb MTOW (75 000lb thrust engines) Th
54 Post contains images Ap305 : looks like a "Chinese copy" of the 787  . But from what little i could hear from the live coverage it appears as though the original mtow for the bas
55 LY777 : Sorry, but the new A350 is a copy of the 787
56 Kanebear : I'm very happy to see Airbus doing the right thing and making a fresh start of the A350. Now if only they can execute. The A350 will in part be made o
57 Centrair : Much better. At least it looks cooler than the original A350. So we have the A350-800, -900, -900L, -900F, & 1000. They are thinking ahead and coveri
58 Beaucaire : It looks like a killer-family of aircraft .... Beautiful design,very appealing performances and attractive technology. That should end the Airbus-bash
59 Post contains images AutoThrust : Yeah maybe its a copy just a more efficient one   Even 5 inches wider isnt a lot you shouldnt forget straighter walls then the ones from 787. I agree
60 Ammunition : The real question is whether this is actually the final offering, i hope so...
61 Eclipz : do you mean "visually" ? because it won't probably be exactly as shown by the picture. Moreover, the appearence doesn't make the plane...
62 DeltaDC9 : Yes you are wrong, no other plane will lay up and bake fuselage sections in one piece. Saying the 350 will have more composites is very misleading, a
63 Post contains images Scbriml : Boeing can take it as a compliment.
64 AutoThrust : How you can be so sure. Why Airbus couldnt do same ?Maybe its misleading but i dont get your point its to early and we dont know how they will build
65 Slz396 : According to Mr Leahy in his presentation, being second to the market means you can see what the competition has to offer, look just where they got i
66 Flying-Tiger : IMO VERY positive news for the A330-200F. Together with the A350-900F it looks like a very interesting combination to replace today's DC-10/MD-10/MD-
67 Danny : Not hard to guess. "We are not concerned at all with A350. B787 is better airplane anyway etc."
68 Slz396 : Does it matter if the composite fuselage is in one piece or not? Fact is the A350XWB is set to make more use of composites overall than the 787 will
69 DeltaDC9 : The announcement gave several clues, but the main issue is the time required to develope such tecnology. Boeing has been working on this for much lon
70 Centrair : Anyone care to figure that out? Interesting...
71 Beaucaire : That might allow Lufthansa to broaden their search for replacement and include A350 -900F.
72 EI321 : Explain please.
73 Post contains images SeJoWa : I like the proposed looks - the nose seems pointy like a 737's. The nicest Airbus to date! Apart from the sound idea of building a three by three seat
74 Post contains images B777ER : Gee, why don't we just send out a memo to all 777 operators advising them that Airbus has decreeded 25% better CASM and that they should fly all 777'
75 Eclipz : hum... how can you know what's going on at Airbus R&D ? nobody really knows what they are working on...[Edited 2006-07-17 15:40:43]
76 Leelaw : I'd add just a pinch of salt. After all, Mr. Leahy told the world at Le Bourget last year that Airbus had taken its time and gotten it right. We'll s
77 Scbriml : It's a 20+ year market. Yes Boeing will get the majority of early orders, but if the A350XWB delivers on Airbus's promise, then they will have the be
78 Post contains images AutoThrust : Sure Airbus dont even know what Composites are. And they never did research. Just for your information there are countrys who have more expertise in
79 DAYflyer : Thats what it looks like to me. If you cant beat em, join em.
80 EI321 : This 'spin' was born in the boeing PR dept. Width at high level is exactly how randy has been emphasising the 787s cabin width advantage over the A35
81 Speedmarque : I am sure Airbus are not COPYING the 787 shape. Its just that when you punch in the required performance of an aircraft into a computer these are the
82 Flying-Tiger : Before you actually post things you cannot held up, please do a search. May I remind you that the single largest peace out of CFK is manufactured at
83 MBJ2000 : Dude, relax a little bit and let people get excited about an obviously new and modern design. Or are you one of those who think only Boeing can build
84 Post contains images AutoThrust : Yes also we shouldnt forget the composite wing centre box biggest ever made. And now watching the movie the A350XWB looks really diffrent. Its gonna
85 VirginFlyer : Couldn't have said it better myself - if anyone wants to have an A vs B war on this subject, please do it off the forum... V/F
86 SeJoWa : Have the advantages of fuselage sections completely spun in CFRP regarding fatigue become null and void? Or the flexibility of electrically operated
87 GeorgiaAME : Amazing! Looks like the A-787. What are the chances of getting the shark tail back? What a beautiful complement to Boeing design. (And I'm an Airbus f
88 EI321 : Im interested to see what parts of the fuselage will be composite. Im still weary of the use of CFRP near accident prone areas, especially the impact
89 Post contains images Solnabo : This new 350 XWB looks awesome, I agree with som a.netters: it´s a 777 killer We´ll thank Boeing for the look alike 787, nes pas? It certinly dont l
90 MBJ2000 : This is also how I see it, will Airbus be able to offer this great aircraft in the end for a competitive price to the airlines? I think this is the b
91 USAF336TFS : I'm sorry, but I can't find a picture of this new version of the A350... Can someone post it?
92 Gigneil : Flying on the A380 every day? This is a distinct advantage if someone moves on it. The A330 has been complete and ready to go since 2001, so if they
93 Beaucaire : See replies 36 and 39....
94 Speedmarque : I know the design will doubtless change but.........do I see a one-piece flight deck window? No I dont!!!! Just answered my own question.[Edited 2006-
95 Post contains images LawnDart : Whatever you think of him, Leahy has boosted Airbus sales...in the process one aircraft manufacturer has ceased doing business, and Airbus is pretty
96 Post contains links FlyATRs : Official Press Release on the EADS Website with currently 3 composite images of the "new" aircraft! She looks like a 787... http://www.eads-nv.com/web
97 EI321 : click here:
98 C680 : Thats what I thought: "Who put the Airbus logo on the 787?"
99 Post contains images PolymerPlane : Actually, that's the overall composition of 787, the fuselage part is almost 100% composite, which what leelaw was talking about. A350XWB is nothing
100 SeJoWa : There's a lot of ground to be covered, and I'm looking forward to the way details of these programs will finally come into focus. Seeing pics of a 78
101 Post contains images MBJ2000 : I had a look at both 787 and A350X and it's true they really look the same: 2 engines, 2 wings, almost circular body etc. Especially the nose seems l
102 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : GE have made some statements as to their intentions about offering engines for the new A350. They are headlines only as they have just started their m
103 Speedmarque : Just a side note................................The story of the "new A350" being introduced at FAB is a headline on British Airways staff Intranet. W
104 Korg747 : I think we all are ahead of the game here. The A350X is Promising a better performance than the older A350. But the trick word in here is "Promise". I
105 Comet4b : Mr Leahy should be in the consumers goods market.His ability to bring out a "new improved" product would be put to good use. Thank goodness Boeing onl
106 Par13del : Also just watched interviews on BBC, so regarding customer seating comfort, does this now mean that Airbus and not the airlines will decide how many s
107 RichardPrice : Go to Amazon.com and search for a book entitled 'The Mythical Man Month' - it applies to man hours and software engineering, but its applicable to an
108 Oldeuropean : All figures for the 787 are also just promises. Let`s wait and see how these both birds will perform, when they are alive. Axel
109 AirFrnt : Congrads to Airbus for finally launching a competitive plane. Now here are the questions still to be answered: - Does GE believe in the concept enough
110 ATLflyer : If you look on the Airbus Farnborough website and click on "Cabin Showroom," they have interior photos of the A380, A340 and a new one called "Cabin V
111 RichardPrice : Based on the 777 performance promises and inservice figures, Boeing has a recent history of keeping their promises.
112 Tancrede : Honestly, when you look at the pictures really close, you see that it doesn’t actually look like the 787, more like the old 350 with 787 wings. Als
113 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Thanks PanAm_DC10..... interesting GE has decided not to build an engine (for now) against their 777-300ER/777-200LR engine... while this gives RR an
114 ATLflyer : I agree. Comparing the way the 787 looks to the A350XWB is like looking at a 737 next to an A320.
115 Cruiser : I really have to take this with a grain of salt when on the same day QR (which has a huge A350 commitment) goes out and orders 20 x 777's. These numb
116 AirFrnt : Sorry, but Boeing has a much better recent record introducing planes into service and meeting promises then Airbus does. That's not great news for Ai
117 N328KF : I think that SQ ordered the 787 mostly because it made financial sense, but partially out of frustration/backlash over the A380 situation, and partly
118 Post contains images AutoThrust : Yes nothing more then a more efficient, more comfortable design (straighter walls, 5inches wider), with better range and looking better then the 787.
119 RichardPrice : Why not? Other projects have had exclusive suppliers before, such as the 747-8 .
120 MauriceB : This even doesn't look like the ''old'' A350 anymore. I think it just looks like the 787, and they promise the things that Boeing already designed on
121 DAYflyer : -No -Subsidies as always -No. Airbus has never lived up to these. -Stick them on the next 777. 787 tech in a 777 sized airframe! -Immediately if they
122 AirFrnt : The 747-8 and the 772LR are niche planes. This indicates that GE believes that the largest version of the 350 will also be a niche market, and not la
123 Grantcv : So is this a marketing design or an engineering design?
124 Ruscoe : When airbus have talked about "modern materials" and leading edge technology" they have been talking about Al-Li. It is hard to see how they can have
125 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Given their recent credibility problem and the fact GE isn't going to be building engines for the -1000, I'm quite curious to see how Airbus lives up
126 RAPCON : Take a B787, nip here, tuck there, stretch down yonder, and what do you get? THE A350!!! After leading the industry in the past 20 years in design an
127 RichardPrice : Theres always one that has to make the stupid, arguement provoking comment. Airbus tried that with the origional A350 design to much derision on here
128 NAV20 : I think this proves that Forgeard had to go, and that the new Airbus management team already has a better grasp of the realities. But the difficult ar
129 EI321 : The last all-new design from boeing (777) had big teething problems and was late. Its not just Airbus. The A345/6 had teething problems which accordi
130 RAPCON : If the A380 is the *****jet (you know, that name which we cannot speak of), and in the spirit of such copy cats like the Concordski, and the AAMRANSK
131 Aither : As far as we know, the A380 is keeping its promises. It's just late on schedule.
132 Beaucaire : A little research would have demonstarted to you that the so called "subsidies" have always been structured as repayable loans. Those have been paid
133 Post contains images Incitatus : That's a generic statement that anybody can learn to say with confidence during an MBA. Can Kia study the S-class and then leapfrog Mercedes? Using a
134 AirFrnt : *shrug* We will see what the performance numbers really are. If you believe Airbus's hype at the moment, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. Boe
135 Post contains images Canberra : DAYflyer I guess you answers are based on your very thorough, professional and neutral analysis
136 Katekebo : With the clause that they are repayable ONLY of the particular airplane model makes a profit. So if the plane is a flop and does not make any money,
137 RichardPrice : Wrong, there is no clause that releases Airbus from payment - the payment period is maximum 17 years, and the payment amount is set so that the full
138 MBJ2000 : I don't think we'll see any orders (for the XWB) during the show, the official launch is 100 days away...
139 N328KF : If we are to believe pilots of customer airlines (read: PhilSquares), some are having to modify their scheduling and destination list as a result.
140 Post contains links Cloudyapple : Latest Press Release http://www.airbus.com/en/airbuslive/...FDBCDCD8C9050241924CAA47DADDA?id=2
141 BladeLWS : Looks like the 787's bastardized twin...
142 Post contains links Cloudyapple : One more with video Leap frogging the 787: An interview with Neil Scott, head of the A350 programme http://www.airbus.com/en/airbuslive/...arnborough/
143 Ikramerica : This looks like a great plane, but we need a reality check here. -The 2012 date will be for the 772ER competitor, and they did this to match the date
144 Post contains links RAPCON : http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/17/news...eut/index.htm?section=money_latest ------------------- QUOTE: Airbus's Leahy remained upbeat, however. "We are
145 BladeLWS : Something good I gather, hey Leahy pass it around!
146 Jacobin777 : "big teeting problems" and "late"? What's your definition of "big teething problems" and "late"???
147 Post contains images Cloudyapple : Half price for the first 100 takers, buy 2 get 1 free for the next 100, buy 2 get 1 A320 free for the next 100... 20% off for everybody else...
148 RichardPrice : The origional A350 launch had a large number of commitments by the time it was officially launched. There is a difference between getting 'authority
149 Grantcv : I think thate Boeing has quite a while to respond to the A350XWB. By the time it arrives on the scene, that segment of the market will be relatively d
150 Slz396 : The widebody short to medium haul market segment you are referring to is a segment which exists mainly with US carriers who need this kind of plane f
151 Post contains images Jacobin777 : what will be interesting is if Boeing could lower the weight of the 77W.. ATWOnline.com reported that Boeing might get the -200LR weight down by a wh
152 Post contains images NAV20 : I wouldn't be so pungent myself - I think that the Airbus guys deserve credit for doing the best they can in a bad situation. "No solution yet, but w
153 AirFrnt : Numbers don't back up this assertion. Go look at the order tables and tell me what model has sold the best out of the 787 family. As far as US airlin
154 LawnDart : Is the 737NG a niche 'plane? How many engine manufacturers are represented? Okay...two...GE and SNECMA (or whatever they call themselves now), but yo
155 N328KF : The turbine group, formerly called "Snecma Moteurs," is now just "Snecma." The holding company, "Snecma," is now called "Safran," and is what merged
156 Post contains images 787engineer : Frankly, I find the 25% lower CASM compared to the 777 quite unbeliveable. Maybe compared to a 772A, but compared to a 772ER? Doubtful. Boeing won't
157 Post contains images MBJ2000 : In other words, let Boeing screw the US customers with high prices since AA, DL, CO, WN & Co. wouldn't order Airbus planes anyway
158 Manni : Having just read the article on the Airbus website, I read... "The A350-800 seats 270 passengers in a spacious three-class configuration, the A350-90
159 Gilesdavies : Im getting confused with all the comments and different points of view... Can someone just clarify for me that the A350-800 and 900 are continuing as
160 RayChuang : Great idea with the A350XWB, but are the European governments willing to shell out €10 billion for the development costs? This on top of the cost ov
161 Cloudyapple : Yes, because they get the money back after a number years - repayable development loan, not launch aid.
162 Scorpio : Why would they shell out $10 billion?
163 CYatUK : This is entirely up to them!
164 AirFrnt : Assuming the European government's don't decide to go for broke, and try to hit behind the old bilaterial, the most they can float to Airbus is aroun
165 Post contains links 787engineer : I was simply noting the discrepency, if you look at this Airbus page: http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/a350_xwb/index.html It says the
166 LawnDart : Thank you...I knew it was some spice-sounding name...
167 Manni : Interesting 2 different numbers on the same website. I'd guess it's a small non intentional error.
168 Katekebo : Based on the "guesstimates" published so far, I compiled this small table. Food for thought: B787-3 / no direct Airbus competitor orders: 43 B787-8 /
169 SirOmega : I'm skeptical of the 2012 launch. I'm sure Airbus would like to get that out in 2012 so they can start major work on the A320-replacement. But I still
170 Ikramerica : Just to be clear, I say that boeing has until 2011 to LAUNCH the 787-11 or 777NG, not to build it. 2015 would be when they need it into the market, so
171 B777fan : I had never heard this saying before, I like it and it seems to fit. I love to see these two companies fighting hard. With luck and hard work, Airbus
172 Post contains images AutoThrust : Maybe you dont have noticed it i wanted to counter his stupid bashing and it wasnt very serious of my part. However maybe you are wrong and all the B
173 Post contains links NAV20 : God - this is pretty wounding. Looks like the press are scenting blood.......... "There had been high hopes that Mr Streiff would tackle the crisis he
174 RichardPrice : Press always scent blood, and if they dont actually find any they make it.
175 Kaneporta1 : There are airports like SXM, that will still require airlines to operate quads like the 340, and so, there will be limited demand for A340s in the ne
176 DEVILFISH : This could be the most quotable quote of the show!
177 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Very hypocritical name for someone who got on Boeing's case about the 747QLRX. Probably the dumbest quote I've seen in a while. Indeed. Very much so.
178 CruzinAltitude : You make a very interesting point. I bet Randy will have something to say about this!
179 Post contains images RAPCON : Disagree with your position on Leahy, and agree the the last one. Anyone who knows anything about SXM knows full well that twins operate out of there
180 NoUFO : The new A350 will not exceed 787's parameters - or at least not by far, since both are too new, and the 787 will be available earlier. Against this b
181 Scbriml : QR's order was between the 777 and A346. They need planes ASAP. They will decide between the A350X and 787 soon. No, there's quite a bit of overlap b
182 Post contains images NAV20 : Give the guy credit, RP. It's a very nicely-written, entertaining story, with two priceless quotes:- Streiff - "We need to move fast, but without has
183 Katekebo : If these numbers are true, it would be a formidable competitor to the B777-300ER. Given the advantages of lower weight and more efficient engines, it
184 PolymerPlane : I am not cheerleading. With another 3-4 months before industrial launch, was I bashing airbus by saying that 350 is nothing more like slides put toge
185 Manni : Going with the numbers provided by Katekebo the 787-10 is likely to seat 43% more passengers in the 8 abreast lay out compared to the 788, 40% more i
186 Travelin man : The A350 XWB will comprise three aircraft: A 314-seater, the A350-900, to enter service mid-2012, a 270-seat version, -800 to enter service in early 2
187 Leigh pilgrim : '''''''I really can't believe they have engineered this enough in the given time, to be able to come up with such a craft, although I am not denying t
188 Boeing Nut : A while back, Boeing was having difficulty in gaining interest in the next 747 to come off the line which at that time was the 747QLRX. Basically, th
189 Columba : I am not so sure. If Boeing will announce the launch of the 787-10 at Farnborough expect either LH or EK being the launch customer. As for the A350-9
190 GQfluffy : Um, no, it does not. Looks about the same to me.... Um, can you say 748i? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the 787 supposed to replace 767s, A330/
191 Ikramerica : Whatever. Aren't AF flying their new dense 77Ws into SXM now? Be fair. it's not. The 777 will be nearly 20 years old by then, and any new jet will ta
192 Post contains images Asturias : Credit? ""Bypassing the hub, going point-to-point, is the real saver," Mr Mulally said. Yet, Boeing is not giving up on the hub-to-hub market either,
193 N328KF : Not a chance. Anyone who has been to the movies lately knows that Superman is a 777 fan.
194 Jacobin777 : Isn't that the same thing you were saying about Leahy when Airbus released the previous versions of the A350?
195 Post contains images Astuteman : Or more precisely, the HAD to if they were to be able to convince QF that it could be operated on SYD-LHR non-stop year-round. Subtle, but different.
196 Ken777 : If it sends the 777 packing what will it do to the 340? Overall I'm impressed with the efforts. Airbus needs to have the engineers to back up the ini
197 Boeing Nut : On the contrary, some members of this forum would do a hell of a better job than Leahy. Present company excluded. Just remind me when the A320 was in
198 Post contains images NAV20 : I suspect that you haven't read the whole article, Asturias. Some of the quotes this guy noted and put in are very illuminating. For example:- "[We a
199 PlanesNTrains : A few random thoughts: --With the A350XWB lineup sized between the 787 and 777, they may give up a little on the high end and some on the low end, but
200 Katekebo : This is where the endorsement from customers via new orders or firming-up previous commitments will make the difference. Airbus can do as much PR tal
201 N328KF : The problem is now that the high end model of the NSR would have to be pretty huge (for a narrowbody) to cover the ground ceded to the 787-3/-8. That
202 Post contains images Asturias : I was going to say the same thing to you since you were promoting a factually incorrect article. Confusing the B787 and the B747 is indicative of the
203 Post contains images Jacobin777 : true...but if Boeing is able to reduce it by 7 (I previously stated 8-my bad)...the would be able to get much more than just QF..I don't think Boeing
204 AADC10 : The new Airbus has only one possible advantage over the 787: It will be designed with 9 abreast seating in mind. The original concept for the 787 was
205 Ikramerica : Proven by your slanted take on the argument at hand. The 350 does, in fact, look to be copying the 787 in design, range, materials, etc. Further, peo
206 Katekebo : The smallest of the A350's (-800) is close in size to the B787-9, which so far has 48 orders. The two smaller B787's (-3 and -8) have respectively 43
207 SNATH : AADC10, You hit the nail right on the head! Tony
208 AirFrnt : These numbers look much more realistic then what Airbus is trumpeting advantage wise. We have a plane that is not competitive with the 787-8, somewha
209 PlanesNTrains : Yes, but the numbers they show the customers and commit to may be very different than the 25% quote above. Like you say, it's PR talk. It doesn't mea
210 Post contains links 787engineer : Pax for the 787-10 is 290-330, it picks up where the 787-9 leaves off. I've said it before. . . I really doubt we'll ever see a 787-11. Most likely Y
211 PlanesNTrains : If you are implying that I said they'd get more orders than the 787/777, then I missed where I stated that. If you are saying that their positioning
212 Post contains images AutoThrust : Sorry but where you have been the last years??    You should re-read all post about the 787 and see how much, no better the millions of crazy assum
213 AlanCHS : 2 Engine Widebody, how original
214 Post contains images Astuteman : . Boeing have shown themselves adept at keeping an eye on the big picture. I think they'll stick with their strategy - it's a good one. . See above H
215 Jacobin777 : maybe once the "industrial launch" (for the umpteenth time) of the A350xwb happens, we'll get a better handle of what the numbers are..
216 Post contains images 787engineer : Funny, I think the An-225 is bigger and has already flown. Anyways, just because B-cheerleaders made these assumptions last year doesn't mean it's ri
217 Scbriml : Not if they need those planes in the next 1-3 years (or even longer). Those are two different "contests". It was A346 or 773ER and A350 or 787. QR wi
218 Alitalia744 : I love the all new Boeing, I mean Airbus 787. A beautiful plane, amazing tho, it looks awfully familiar to something I've seen before. *Scratch Head*
219 HighFlyer9790 : lets not kid are selves. for the most part, it is the 787. a lot of features airbus put in it in the beginning were directly copying the 787 program.
220 Gunsontheroof : I like how the talking head on their homepage said there wasn't "a cloud in the sky" at Farnborough with clouds in the sky behind her.
221 Post contains links Mariner : This reads differently to me: http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRele...&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en "Airbus pays royalties to governments over th
222 Kaneporta1 : Sure, 737s, 757s and some payload restricted 767s. Have you seen any regular A330s or 777s? I haven't. Never seen or heard anything about AF 77W in S
223 Astuteman : I'll be fascinated to see how they say they've managed to increase the diameter of the A350-800 by "x" cms/inches, added 20 ish seats, and still kept
224 Post contains images Scbriml : I wasn't talking about the bulkhead, but the fuselage piece behind the bulkhead - it's a single piece of CFRP spun in the same manner as the 787 fuse
225 Gigneil : The rear pressure bulkhead itself is composite as well, and yes it was basically "woven". N
226 Boeing7E7 : According to reality, this is a 777-200 and partial -300 replacement. Boeing got it absolutely right and Airbus still has no response to the 787. Obv
227 Post contains images Jacobin777 : fine, you stick with what you want to..but Leahy et.al weren't presenting an A350 last year which was going to only get 30% of the market share....th
228 Post contains links ScottB : Actually, I don't see the requirement for the "repayable launch investment" to be repaid in full in the relevant document found here: http://ec.europ
229 BoomBoom : Not exactly an unbiased source of information, is it?
230 Post contains images Glideslope : Relax. The "Extra Wide Body" (LOL, I love it) will end up as before. A wider A330 MkIII. It won't compete with the 788, or 789. It will try to compet
231 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : Some of my thoughts: - this is the best looking widebody from Airbus so far; - wings: looks like the evolution of the AWIATOR program, with huge wingl
232 787engineer : The 789 competes almost directly against the A350-800 and the same goes for the 787-10 vs. the A350-900. I would say the main use of composites (sing
233 Post contains images AutoThrust : I agree its childish but you have to understand all this airbus bashing can be very annoying and brings the quality of forum to a very bad level. Tak
234 Galapagapop : Thus several key components of the 787 are being built in Japan due to their knowledge of composites, now lets see where Airbus divulges its manufact
235 FriendlySkies : I haven't read all the replies, but based on what I've read in articles at work...this seems like nothing more than a me-too aircraft from Airbus, com
236 BoeingBus : Am I the only one who thinks that there is not enough info for folks here to comment. Tired of reading some baseless views of which is the loser, winn
237 Alitalia744 : Practice what you preach then. Too often, Boeing threads turn into Boeing bashes from the pro-Airbus guys. What's good for the goose has to be good f
238 Kaneporta1 : According to my calculations, there is a 940mm increase in the circumference of the A350X compared to the A350. The result of this is an extra 47 sq
239 AirFrnt : Is the European concept of a Royalty payment the same as a American contract language? If so, that means thatAirbus must pay per frame, based on a 17
240 Post contains images 787engineer : Well, all those A-cheerleaders have been sitting on the sidelines watching their team get pummeled, but now that there's a glimmer of hope they jump
241 Post contains links Areopagus : Khobar debunked that claim on June 8. See his Replies 55 and 72 of http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2814165. He summa
242 Ruscoe : If Airbus can produce this aircraft where does it leave it's exisiting models? 300/310 mostly dead already 320 Likely to remain the mainstay of Airbus
243 RayChuang : Personally, outside of the potential issue of financing the €10 billion development cost, the A350XWB is actually a potential huge winner for Airbus
244 AutoThrust : That reminds me to the hype after sonic cruiser debacle when details about the 7E7 were released exactly same situation. Funny how things can change.
245 Post contains images B707Stu : Imitation is the greatest form of flattery!
246 Post contains images Astuteman : Currently the quoted figure is $10Bn, as opposed to €10Bn. That aside, fine post Regards
247 UAL747-600 : I'm sorry but what's with the the UXB designation? It's only 5 inches wider than the 787 and narrower than the 777. At any rate, I can't wait to see m
248 Vasu : That's the first I've heard about this designation!
249 Jrosa : Lets use Leahy's words: the A350X is a Chinese copy of the 787. Both planes are really similar. In fact the A350X looks like the 787 in Airbus colors.
250 Picard : A330 250 - 295 pax A350 XWB 250 - 350 pax Whats not being addressed? A3456 is definatly dead so using the A350 to cover this is a good idea and at th
251 BoeingBus : would be ironic if the CASM of the A350-1000 beats its own A380... anyone else think of this? supposedly the 787-10 would... time will tell...
252 Ikramerica : I could see composites used to reduce weight in this manner: -wing skins, wing box, fuselage section around wing box. -engine materials (as many as p
253 Pavlin : It will enter service in 2014. But since you mentioned. the A380 (possibly -900) will rule not because CASM, but because it will be big.
254 Post contains images Crogalski :
255 Deputydawghere : I think your statements pretty bold my friend. I'm sure Airbus will come out with state of the art technology on their new A350, but their new versio
256 MD-90 : Let's be thankful that a.net didn't exist when the A300 first flew. "It's too big, it'll never fly (or sell)" was quite the rallying cry, back then (
257 Deputydawghere : Didn't want to say anything, but...
258 VirginFlyer : At 260 replies, this has got very long now, and it seems a lot of this is just rehashing what has been said in the first hundred or so posts. If there
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