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Finnair : 1st A350XWB Customer  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

Not a surprise , as the Finnish airline already said they will stick with the new Airbus , as the XWB in any case will be a better performer than the previous version , but officialy this is the first customer.

In another way Airbus is prepared to loose one or two airlines , out of the already A350 customers list.So 1 or 2 more for the 787.

http://www.boursier.com/vals/FR/eads...ensations-d-airbus-news-193826.htm

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5028 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9544 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
In another way Airbus is prepared to loose one or two airlines , out of the already A350 customers list.So 1 or 2 more for the 787.

I don't think Airbus was talking about existing customers who had already signed on, but about possible future customers. The remark about possibly losing customers was made with regards to the possibility that only one engine manufacturer would sign on.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9628 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9509 times:
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Anyone have the numbers on what Finnair paid (or list price) vs. the new model?

User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

I am really curious what will current A350 customer do, when their plane has suddenly changed?

User currently offlineKanebear From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9322 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 2):
Anyone have the numbers on what Finnair paid (or list price) vs. the new model?

Mere speculation but to bag an order by a first rate airline I'm sure Airbus gave major concessions.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

Well, they had ordered the 359 before, IIRC, and now the 358X is that size, so will they go with that instead?

BTW, FCKC, any reason you failed to mention the WHOLE content of the article?

It says that Finnair will stick with the 350X after COMPENSATION by A due to the changes and delay.

Airbus is paying them to stay on board, at least according to this article.

Only question is will Airbus cancel the old 350 orders LAST year and now book these as NEW orders THIS year to help win the year? It's possible to cancel based on year of order, not year of cancelation, and quietly "lose" last year's race now that nobody is paying attention...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 3):
I am really curious what will current A350 customer do, when their plane has suddenly changed?

Not having read the contracts, I cannot say for certain, but it seems to me that all current orders would be nullified and essentially need to be re-signed. Deposits should be valid on the A350XWB or other widebody products, or should be refundable in full.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8893 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 6):
Quoting Pavlin (Reply 3):
I am really curious what will current A350 customer do, when their plane has suddenly changed?

Not having read the contracts, I cannot say for certain, but it seems to me that all current orders would be nullified and essentially need to be re-signed. Deposits should be valid on the A350XWB or other widebody products, or should be refundable in full.

But AB will not want to lose their custom and will give a good deal - remember that they won't have o do a lot of the marketting of these planes again - just prove that the airline will be getting an equivalent or beter plane for their money


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8817 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 7):
But AB will not want to lose their custom and will give a good deal - remember that they won't have o do a lot of the marketting of these planes again - just prove that the airline will be getting an equivalent or beter plane for their money

There is the matter of lost time, though.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12508 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8782 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
It's possible to cancel based on year of order, not year of cancelation, and quietly "lose" last year's race now that nobody is paying attention...

Are you saying it's possible, or asking?

Last year's sales and numbers would all be locked in to audited accounts, I don't see how you can cross numbers off last year and add the same order this year. I'm suspect Finnair's order will just have some additional clauses added to the existing contract.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8782 times:

Its not really a surprise that Finnair is going with the A350........Finnair stated that it would stick with the A350 when no one even knew what Airbus was going to come up with and call the A350 or A370 a few weeks ago. Finnair is determined to go all Airbus for its 125+ passenger requirements.

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8671 times:

I only don't understand how Finnair will operate the A350XWB and the A343 parallel. There is probably no commonality left and Finnair is too small an airline to operate two widebody families in the long term.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8606 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
Last year's sales and numbers would all be locked in to audited accounts, I don't see how you can cross numbers off last year and add the same order this year. I'm suspect Finnair's order will just have some additional clauses added to the existing contract.

It can be done. I was asking whether they would do so.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8529 times:

Quoting A350 (Reply 11):
I only don't understand how Finnair will operate the A350XWB and the A343 parallel. There is probably no commonality left and Finnair is too small an airline to operate two widebody families in the long term.

A350

You raise an interesting point......although the ""old"" new A350 never had that much in common with the A343s either? A guess, and this is only a guess, at some point Airbus will help Finnair in swapping the three newly ordered A343s for additional A350s.......either with a buy back or assistance in re-marketing the aircraft.

I was never convinced that the A343 (both the newly ordered airplanes and the ex Virgin airplane now with Finnair) would be with Finnair for the long term....the A343 was ordered due to timing; Finnair needs new airplanes in the near term future to grow and this was the solution that was settled upon.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12508 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8464 times:
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Quoting A350 (Reply 11):
I only don't understand how Finnair will operate the A350XWB and the A343 parallel. There is probably no commonality left and Finnair is too small an airline to operate two widebody families in the long term.

The A343s are a win-win situation for AY. They get the extra long-haul planes they need. They get experience of operating an Airbus widebody before their A350Xs are delivered, and of course they get engine commonality with their short-haul fleet.

Eventually, the A350Xs will replace the MD-11s and A343s. Quite a neat solution.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8259 times:

Ikramerica

When i posted the thread , i only make a small comment , and sent the link for people to be more informed.
It's not my intention to conceal some informations and to publish others.

The whole world perfectly knows that already A350 customers which stick with the XWB will gain a major discount.That's the game , and Boeing will do the same thing if they were in the Airbus case.

One possibily is the already A350 customers which stick with the XWB , will pay the same price than the previous version.No affirmation , only a though.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8195 times:

Finnair are 'lucky' in that they specified RR engines (the only airline to do so I think) on their 'original' A350s, so they know they definitely have an engine.

The customers who previously chose GE might have more issues to analyse, as GE seems to be definitely on the 800, possibly/probably on the 900, and definitely not on the 1000 (and I would assume any 900 long range variant which would need the same thrust as the 1000?)



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 14):
The A343s are a win-win situation for AY. They get the extra long-haul planes they need. They get experience of operating an Airbus widebody before their A350Xs are delivered, and of course they get engine commonality with their short-haul fleet.

Eventually, the A350Xs will replace the MD-11s and A343s. Quite a neat solution.

Bingo Scbriml, it makes sense for AY to go that way..........

Cheers,  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineFD728 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

Finnair said the MD-11 would be gone by 2010. WIth the A350 introduction pushed back to 2012, we might see the -11 soldier on for two more years. Would be great! However I guess the more likely scenario would be to get some more second hand A340s in the get rid of the MD-11s by 2010.

FD728


User currently offlineSkyTaxi From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7871 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Only question is will Airbus cancel the old 350 orders LAST year and now book these as NEW orders THIS year to help win the year? It's possible to cancel based on year of order, not year of cancelation, and quietly "lose" last year's race now that nobody is paying attention...


Not only that, they will count the 100 Chinese orders again, since they were signed this year.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7834 times:

Quoting SkyTaxi (Reply 19):
Not only that, they will count the 100 Chinese orders again, since they were signed this year.

I seriously doubt there will be any double-counting of orders.

Anyway, I just saw the rendering of the A350 -- Finnair's livery should suit it very well. I think it'll be a really nice-looking plane.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

I wonder if USAirways will keep their order for the A350 now???? Sounds like it might be to big of an aircraft for them. Or will they just purchase more A330's?????

Chuck


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30922 posts, RR: 87
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7695 times:
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I think the A330 will be the better choice for US compared to either the A350 or the A350XWB.

User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7601 times:

Stitch, that is what I was thinking and they can get the A330 at an earlier date also. I'm I correct on that one.??????

Chuck


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7570 times:

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 23):
Stitch, that is what I was thinking and they can get the A330 at an earlier date also. I'm I correct on that one.??????

Chuck



Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
I think the A330 will be the better choice for US compared to either the A350 or the A350XWB.

US already has ten A332s on order for delivery starting in 2007.....the A332s were ordered to replace the 762s but its now not clear if the 762s will be retained. The A350s were ordered for further expansion and iwe do no know if US will confirm the A350 order due to changes in the airplanes being offered by Airbus.


25 Ikramerica : I'm not about to argue with you, but this is an ENGLISH language site, you posted an article in FRENCH, and left out some specific information that t
26 Post contains links Blackadder : A press release by Finnair: http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/gr...up_11_2_1.html?&Id=1153141375.html It says it all and doesn´t say anything. There
27 Post contains images Cloudyapple : They would be ~25 years old when FIN gets rid of them! Sure few reputable first tier passenger airlines will fly an aircraft that old! They might "re
28 RAPCON : ....and that only about 60% of the airframe will be made of composites. I still would love to know where all the the economic advantage over the B bi
29 FinnWings : Most of the B747-400s will be over 20 years old at that time too and airlines aren't even seriously considering to replace those aircrafts. Why shoul
30 WSOY : We can rest assured that attempting to crack this puzzle will become a popular pastime within the present community.
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